Sainsbury's in Pimlico

[Hallie]

I' ve heard all sorts of things about this new Sainsbury's in Pimlico. Apparently its a new 'concept' thing that attempts to make Sainso's seem like a farmer's market.

Has anyone done their shopping there? Is it good? Please, enlighten us.

[Spam]

It is indeed a new concept from Sainsbury's. the first phase of which can be seen at Bluebird on the King's Rd. It is their appauling attempt to recreate the feel of a farmers market, with the product range of a super market.

I went to Pimlico Sainsbury's last night and thought that it was a pile of turd. I arrived around 7pm and most half interesting product lines were empty, apart from the olive oil stand which housed some 5000 different types of oil including The River Cafe's own label. It just does not work. I am a much bigger fan of Waitrose's local producer initiative. I think that it is important for these retail giants to re-establish themselves locally.

It also bothers me that these new Sainsburys think that they provide the butcher, the baker and the fishmonger. My experience of the King's Rd store is that they know nothing. I have had to explain the very basics of a cow's anatomy to a half wit woman behind their butchery counter several times, and she still has no idea what I am talking about.

Sainsbury's food market - good idea, but very badly executed!

[Carlovski]

It sounds like a nice idea. The Olive oil stand sounds typical - much the same in any supermarket, loads of different brands of identikit olive oils (All italian!) but don't sell vanilla pods, or saffron for instance.

I don't think you can expect a full product range, if they really are trying to source locally, and get decent ingredients, 24 hours a day - I know most Farmers markets are pretty much dried up after the first hour or two anyway.

[dastocks]

It is their appalling attempt to recreate the feel of a farmers market, with the product range of a super market. 

I happened upon this place yesterday and strolled in to have a look. It's just like any other Sainsbury's, but with more space given over to counter-service for things like cheeses. deli and fresh meat.

It's interesting to note that Tesco and Asda seem to be moving *away* from counter service for things like this, in favour of cabinets full of cheeses and cooked meat in packaging that have obviously been wrapped within the store.

I wonder who will win? Sainsbury's seem to be losing market share ...

[Stigand]

I think people are being a bit unfair on Sainsbury's Market.

Sure, if you're looking for a bucolic farmers' market, this isn't it - and I would rather go to a farmers' market given the choice. But I think it's a darn sight better than most of the local supermarkets. (Consider the miserable Tesco on Warwick Way; the small and necessarily badly stocked Sainsbury's Centrals on Victoria Street, or the big but not terribly nice Sainsbury's in Vauxhall.)

I've found that there's a reasonable selection of organic meat, fruit & veg, and produce most of the times I've been there, and I appreciate the availability of things like wild rabbit, partridge, fresh mussels and monkfish. And it has a good selection of the Sainsbury's Taste the Difference range, which is good by supermarket standards (if you don't object to Jamie Oliver gurning at you from the back of the packet...).

I'd agree with Spam's comments about the cheese counters, etc. They're a bit of a charade, in the sense that they offer largely the same cheeses that a reasonably upmarket Sainsbury's would, but are often manned by staff who haven't been adequately trained and so don't add much to the experience. This may be a teething problem (it seems most of the staff have been newly recruited): I think counter service can be done well at high end supermarkets - when I used to live in California, the butcher's counter at the local Andronico's was always staffed by knowledgable and pleasant people.

Despite the counter gripe, I find the rest of the 'market' theme quite enjoyable. The idea of using attractive shop-fittings and selling a wider-than-usual range of produce makes supermarket shopping much more enjoyable for me.

So all in all, not a real market, but a lot better than most of the alternatives.

[retirement_beckons]

Surely, the real problem is that the big supermarket chains in the UK have achieved their dominance by de-skilling a lot of food retailing jobs. They set out to bankrupt the small chain or independent butcher, baker and fishmonger by creating a pre-packed, pre-portioned offer which didn't require the customer to make many judgements of their own. Also, supermarket jobs have a dead-end reputation, no sense of pride or craft, and the training provided is hardly going to appeal to someone with a profound interest in a particular foodie niche.

So when their latest decision - to segment the market and appeal to wealthier customers at certain stores - hits the high street, where will they recruit their expert butchers and fromagiers (is that the word ?) from ? There is no local Dewhursts, employing the same six people for a lifetime career, during which they grow to understand the finer points of butchery. There is no local Macfisheries, and in many shopping streets no independent traders whatsoever. There are no local experts to be recruited.

Therefore, they'll employ the same people who they'd employ at a superstore or hypermarket. The guy stacking cabbages will be stacking baked beans later - they won't employ someone who knows what is fresh or in season, its irrelevant to their food offer anyway. The woman on the wet fish stall is probably more concerned about being asked to work hours which don't meet her childcare needs, and who can blame her.

Did anyone really think this latest retail fad would lead to supermarkets employing specialist staff ?

Look at a typical in-store bakery. Half the stock probably arrives frozen, to be baked off. The ovens used are industry standard. Yet still everything seems either underbaked or so overbaked it feels like a housebrick. Because even in this little corner of the store, the supermarkets won't employ anyone with any bakery experience, who could use their judgement about when to take loaves out of the oven, and because the grim reality of supermarket work would repel anyone who hoped for decent training and career progression. If they haven't got bakery right after all these years, they won't even understand the notion of employing enthusiastic staff in other departments.

[Stigand]

[edit]

Edited November 1, 2003 by Stigand (log)

[Jonathan Day]

I went there this morning. By comparison to other Sainsburys branches, this one is pretty good -- a cross between a French supermarket and a fancy food hall. The aisles are wide, there is lots of space between displays, and there were an astonishing number of staff, more competent than the usual Sainsburys staff and and almost falling over themselves to help. Where do you keep batteries? Just here, sir, let me show you. At our local Sainsburys the staff (if you can find them) are friendly enough but usually as confused as the customers about where things are, giving directions like "It's a couple of aisles down, on the right near the floor."

The products weren't bad, either. There were a few more olive oil choices than at an ordinary Sainsburys, but no more than at a good Italian delicatessen or food hall. The meat and fish ranges was larger and better looking than the one at our local. The shelves seemed unusually full.

They insist on packaging most fruits and vegetables in branded plastic bags or boxes, so you are buying Sainsburys Cauliflower, not just a cauliflower, and there is the usual display of pre-cut pre-washed vegetables, each of which is guaranteed to turn brown before you've brought it home.

I spoke with several members of staff. There was an evident pride in the new venture and a sense that it was special. "We even have different uniforms," said one. Another advised me to try the free parking, a rarity in Pimlico. A third asked why I hadn't visited the market before, since it opened in September.

Is this anything like Borough Market for variety and quality? No, but this is easier to get to and through, and generally cheaper. Do the meat and cheese counter staff know their products like those at Neals Yard or Doves or the Ginger Pig? No, and the products aren't as good, either; but the ones I bought weren't bad. I didn't try the bakery or look at the wine selection. Is this a patch on one of the better French food halls, e.g. "Lafayette Gourmet", the food and wine section of Galleries Lafayette? No, but it's a lot closer to home.

I try to avoid supermarkets except for "chemicals": washing powder, loo rolls, sugar, and the like, preferring the Northcote Road vendors for fruit, vegetables and meat. And I don't know how this compares with today's Waitrose stores. But it compares well against anything I've seen from Tesco, Safeway, M&S, or other Sainsburys outlets. Some of the energy in the staff is owing to the "shock of the new", and I wonder whether this place only gets more staff than the usual Sainsburys outlet for the duration of its launch. Nonetheless it's well worth a visit.

[retirement_beckons]

Since Northcote Road (a few minutes walk from Clapham Junction station, if anyone is wondering) has been mentioned, can I also give a totally gratuitous plug to the Lighthouse Bakery and the two hardworking women who own it. Their every-day list of breads is augmented by a couple of "specials" each day (I particularly like their New York Rye with caraway seeds) and a range of scones, cakes, biscuits and viennoiserie, and is well worth trying out.

[Jonathan Day]

I enthusiastically second RB's gratuitious plug for the Lighthouse Bakery. And while you're on the road, try:

• Philglass and Swigott, one of the better independent wine shops in London
  Salumeria Napoli, a traditional Italian deli with a good range
  Dove's, the butcher, already mentioned
  The Hive, a shop devoted entirely to honey and bee products, including its own resident beehive
  I Sapori, a more modern Italian deli run by the chef Stefano Cavallini
  Hamish Johnston, a cheesemonger with a good range
  Dandelion, a health food and vitamin shop with a wide range of grains, tofu, dried fruits and the like
  

The road also has a pleasant organic food shop, two fishmongers, several other wine shops, a patissier, another butcher, numerous fruit and veg stands, many restaurants (GBK, a pizza-by-the-slice shop, a branch of Bar Meze, the more serious Nikson's, several Italian joints, a sushi place, etc.). From Northcote Road it is an easy stroll to Pizza Metro, mentioned many times on these boards.

[circeplum]

I went to Pimlico Sainsbury's last night and thought that it was a pile of turd.

i'm a local, and i think it's brilliant. i'll still be using the cheeseshop and the italian deli on upper tachbrook, and the mad patisserie and the spanish shop on lower tachbrook, the portuguese on warwick way (though not, absolutely not the diabolical bella sicilia deli.)

however, for a supermarket - which is what it is, basically - it does a fantastic job.

m

[Spam]

I still think that it is turd. If it only satisfies the role of being a supermarket, what was the point of a multi million pound refit?

[Stigand]

Well, there wasn't a refit as such - it's a totally new store.

And of course there are supermarkets and there are supermarkets. The Pimlico Sainsbury's is head and shoulders above most other central London supermarkets, for all the reasons mentioned before (good selection of produce, very large considering its location, nice layout, parking, some energetic staff, open till 10pm, etc).

[circeplum]

Well, there wasn't a refit as such - it's a totally new store.

And of course there are supermarkets and there are supermarkets. The Pimlico Sainsbury's is head and shoulders above most other central London supermarkets, for all the reasons mentioned before (good selection of produce, very large considering its location, nice layout, parking, some energetic staff, open till 10pm, etc).

amen to that.

i need only point anyone to the hell tesco in warwick way for a truly vivid comparison.

m x

[oldschooltie]

Used it a few times for a limited range of products.

Meat counter looked OK and bought a good rib of veal; haven't tried the fish yet. Cheese pretty unexceptional and haven't seen the in store cookery demonstrations.

I agree that it is far better than any other competitor locally and it's good to have the option to pick up a range of products that - whilst not top of the market - are pretty reasonable.

Main problem is the gap between perception and reality. As others have said, notwithstanding the "market" label and extra space and staff, it's a supermarket and that will define what it can (and can't) offer.

Interesting to see whether it's viable long term

[Stigand]

i'll still be using the cheeseshop and the italian deli on upper tachbrook, and the mad patisserie and the spanish shop on lower tachbrook, the portuguese on warwick way (though not, absolutely not the diabolical bella sicilia deli.)

Bella Sicilia - ug. I went there once in a warm support-my-local-retailers type of mood, had a nice chat with the owner, and for my pains got sold what turned out to be possibly the oldest piece of parmesan known to man. It was positively geological. Never went back.

[circeplum]

i'll still be using the cheeseshop and the italian deli on upper tachbrook, and the mad patisserie and the spanish shop on lower tachbrook, the portuguese on warwick way (though not, absolutely not the diabolical bella sicilia deli.)

Bella Sicilia - ug. I went there once in a warm support-my-local-retailers type of mood, had a nice chat with the owner, and for my pains got sold what turned out to be possibly the oldest piece of parmesan known to man. It was positively geological. Never went back.

he is a complete prick. he's given me the arse end of parma ham before; when i remonstrated he threw it on the scales and said it was worth £11. eh?

then, when i asked him to take the skin off some salami, he told me i wanted too much service, replaced the salami in the cabinet and refused to serve me.

i hope sainsbury's kills his business stone dead.