Mother sauces

[KateW]

Ok, so all last year we learned the acronym for the 5 mother sauces is BETHVD: Bechamel, Espagnole, Tomato, Hollandaise, Veloute and Demiglace. Chef wants us to know the 5 mother sauces and a 6th unofficial mother sauce. So I'm looking online for this elusive 6th sauce and also trying to find out the last sauce to be included as a mother sauce and nobody seems to be including Demiglace as a mother sauce at all. Most of them say viniagrette instead of demiglace. Well I'm assuming this chef wants us to go with what we learned in school, so BETHVD it is. But what is this last sauce?

[zilla369]

Hm, i'm confused. We learned BETHV. That's five. So, obviously (i think?), your instructor means that demi is the "sixth, unofficial" - yes?

[Dave the Cook]

Nick went through this last year: see if this helps.

[maggiethecat]

I remember NeroW mentioning somewhere that her chef at culinary school (a Mexican gentleman) insisted that mole is a mother sauce.

[KateW]

Woops, so now I can't count.

Edit: Having read the thread you linked here, I'm even more confused!

Edited October 24, 2003 by KateW (log)

[jackal10]

Does no one read Escoffier any more? Or even Larousse

The mother sauces are hot: two brown (espagnole and demi-glaze) and two white (bechamel and veloute)

and two other (Hollandaise and Tomato).

I guess your instructor may be thinking of beurre blanc, but that is not a classical sauce. There are also purees, but in classical cookery they would be combined with another sauce, as in soubise.

There are two basic cold sauces: mayonnaise and vinagrette, and butters such as Maitre d'hotel.

Sweet sauces (creme Anglais, purees etc) are another division.

[beans]

I remember reading somewhere that Viniagrette was one of the five. Tomato came much later, so is kind of a "new comer" to the mother sauces.

[KateW]

Sure, Larousse has many pages on sauce but I am looking for something pretty basic--the 5 mother sauces, the 6th "unofficial" mother sauce, and which mother sauce was the last to be considered a mother sauce. Larousse does not seem to have this basic information. It lists many more than 6 "basic" sauces. I do not have any Escoffier books, and I have 20 dollars to my name right now, or I'd run out and get some!

Being a classical French class, the 6th sauce could be a viniagrette or a butter sauce I imagine, but I'm not sure which.

I'm going with the BETHVD, but I'm not sure which one came last. I'm going with tomato.

[cheftoad]

From The Culinary Institute of America's New Professional Chef:

"Demi-glace, veloute, bechamel, tomato, and (in at least some instances) hollandaise are often referred to as the "grand sauces" or "mother sauces." A sauce is considered to be a grand sauce if it met (sic) some basic criteria: It can be prepared in large batches, and then flavored, finished, and garnished in great variety, producing hundreds and thousands of so-called "small sauces." This principle was still considered revolutionary in Careme's time. Escoffier's codification of sauces was considered a major advance.

Some chefs argue that because hollandaise cannot be made in advance in a large quantity and stored, and it is not intended as a base sauce used to prepare a variety of sauces, it does not qualify as a grand sauce. Others feel that this sauce should be counted as one of the grand sauces. Not only do they feel that this sauce can be used to prepare derivatives, but it can also be used as the basic technique to yield a variety of other sauces."

[KateW]

Interesting...there was never any question in school that hollandaise is a mother sauce. I see the point about how it cannot be made in large batches, but there are many compound sauces that are made from hollandaise: Bernaise, Choron, Maltaise, Mouselline, Paloise and Rachel to name a few...

I would think demiglace wouldn't be a mother sauce because it is just a reduced espagnole, which is a mother sauce...right?

[Dave the Cook]

Interesting...there was never any question in school that hollandaise is a mother sauce.  I see the point about how it cannot be made in large batches, but there are many compound sauces that are made from hollandaise: Bernaise, Choron, Maltaise, Mouselline, Paloise and Rachel to name a few...

I would think demiglace wouldn't be a mother sauce because it is just a reduced espagnole, which is a mother sauce...right?

Right or wrong, this is how I've always thought of demi-glace and Hollandaise. Not only is demi-glace a derivative of Espagnole, its uses are pretty much limited to using it straight or making glace de viande. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it always seemed like the odd woman out among the other mothers.

Of course, no one ever proposed to grade me on my rationalizations!

[cheftoad]

Other demi derivatives:

from the New Professional Chef:

bercy

bordelaise

chateaubriand

diable

diane

estragon

madeira

perigueux

poivrade

porto

zingara

from my kitchen (not that I'm the first to do them):

pomegranate

blue cheese

curry

maple-soy

wasabi

[Dave the Cook]

Other demi derivatives:

from the New Professional Chef:

bercy

bordelaise

chateaubriand

diable

diane

estragon

madeira

perigueux

poivrade

porto

zingara

from my kitchen (not that I'm the first to do them):

pomegranate

blue cheese

curry

maple-soy

wasabi

Oops. You're absolutely right. I don't know what I was thinking, as I've made several of these.

Still, demi-glace is itself derived from a mother sauce. In fact, some on your list are often made not directly from demi-glace, but by reducing espagnole as part of the recipe. At least that's the way it is in the home kitchen.

I have no intention of arguing about an "official" list of mother sauces, as I don't have to pass a test at JWU or face a quiz conducted by a hard-to-please exec. I am just making observations. It shouldn't surprise anyone that things passed down as gospel don't always pass a common-sense test.

[cheftoad]

Yes, I agree demiglace is derived itself.

And I'm not trying to argue either, just sharing from my desk references and my personal experience.

[Dave the Cook]

While I understand, and even appreciate, the concept of the mother sauce, it's not particularly helpful to me.

As a home cook, I don't make up large quantities of bechamel or espagnole, or, except occasionally, tomato sauces. What I do have on hand are stocks and milk and eggs and butter. If I need a veloute for a recipe, I make it, but I don't keep it in inventory. Since I can't just pull them from the reach-in or out of a bain maire, the way they're made is more important than their derivation.

Which leads to me another way to categorize sauces -- by their preparation method:

Roux sauces: bechamel, espagnole, veloute

Slurry sauces: mostly cornstarch or arrowroot, but wheat flour, too. This would include a lot of Asian sauces, as well as pie fillings

Emulsions: hollandaise and its derivatives, mayonnaise, vinaigrettes, beurre blanc/rouge

Reduced/enriched: pan sauces, demi-glace/glace de viande

Simmered: tomato sauce, vegetable and meat stocks

Am I the only one who thinks of sauces this way?

[mise en place]

The way I learned it is: Bechamel, Veloute, Espagnole, Tomato, Hollandaise, and Mayonnaise since it is the basis of other cold sauces: Mousquetaire, Remoulade, Tartare, Russe, Verte.

[hwilson41]

While I understand, and even appreciate, the concept of the mother sauce, it's not particularly helpful to me....

Which leads to me another way to categorize sauces -- by their preparation method:

Roux sauces: bechamel, espagnole, veloute

Slurry sauces: mostly cornstarch or arrowroot, but wheat flour, too. This would include a lot of Asian sauces, as well as pie fillings

Emulsions: hollandaise and its derivatives, mayonnaise, vinaigrettes, beurre blanc/rouge

Reduced/enriched: pan sauces, demi-glace/glace de viande

Simmered: tomato sauce, vegetable and meat stocks

Am I the only one who thinks of sauces this way?

No, you're not [the only one who thinks of sauces that way]. I agree that your categorization by "process" makes a hell of a lot more sense that worrying about who is the mother, who is the step-mother, and who is the red-headed step-child .

Like you describe, I'm also a home cook, and I usually have on hand butter, eggs, chicken stock, beef stock, tomato sauce (storebought, unflavored), and a few other basics. And when I start thinking about making a sauce, I think about the process, not the genealogy .

THW

[Feather]

99% sure the elusive 6th sauce is actually vinagrette

[KateW]

who is the red-headed step-child

I'm a redheaded stepchild

I wish I could think of stocks and sauces so casually but this is for school. Every chef's word is gospel and every different chef's word is well, different..."not unlike most professions" possibly, but I am the type of person who likes exact, true answers.

But I am going with vinaigrette too. Maybe I should show the chef this thread.

[hwilson41]

I'm a redheaded stepchild  ....  I am the type of person who likes exact, true answers.

You should be studying pure math (as opposed to applied math). Some of it is basically intellectual masturbation, but the answers are exact .

[BigboyDan]

The way I learned it is: Bechamel, Veloute, Espagnole, Tomato, Hollandaise, and Mayonnaise since it is the basis of other cold sauces: Mousquetaire, Remoulade, Tartare, Russe, Verte.

Yep.

[Peter B Wolf]

To add a bit more of confusion.

All "Basic Sauces" will need basic "Stock" !

These are needed to be 'Grandparents'

As not to ".....worrying about who is the mother, who is the step-mother, and who is the red-headed step-child...."

To name a few "Stocks":

'Fond brun / grand jus' (for Espanol)

'Fond blanc' (for Bechamel/Veloute)

'Fond de poisson' (for Veloute)

'Fond de volaille' (for Veloute)

[KateW]

Just in case anyone was wondering, chef says Demiglace was the last sauce voted in and can also be considered a compound sauce because it is made from espagnole and brown stock.

We never did go over the unofficial mother sauce.

[Dave the Cook]

"Voted in"? Was this a Florida election?

[NeroW]

An "unofficial" mother sauce?

Bechamel. Espagnole. Tomato. Hollandaise. Veloute.