• Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Verbena-NZ

Chocolate ideas

55 posts in this topic

Verbena, you have to realize no one is interested in doing your work for you. BUT, if you were to talk about what you've come up with (thru looking at books and other sources) I believe many people would be happy to give you advice and guidance, at least I would help.

What have you got so far?

Well I've been working on the idea of doing a fudge type cake with a liquid center.....now this isn't anything new BUT I'm after a recipe that will allow the center to hold{or not carry on cooking}

Every one that I've tried to date still carries on cooking.

I've even tried putting a seperate center in{ganache} so that it remains liquid.

There you go........anyone got or seen anything that'll do what I'm looking for!! :biggrin:

I think you should make a Tunnel Fudge Cake. :rolleyes:

Edited to include link to the 1966 Pillsbury Bakeoff winning recipe.


Edited by Rachel Perlow (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I started posting here long before I started working at Ruby Tuesday. A year before that, in fact. I came here from a link somewhere else, I forget where, to Malawry's diary on her cooking school adventures.  I was just starting culinary school myself and was considering doing a diary also.  I ended up doing that diary at Chef Talk Cafe, if you care to read those posts also.  This year I do not do the diary, and nobody has asked me where it has been.  I post much less frequently at CTC because there is so little traffic there and I can get my questions answered much faster.

See, I am not in culinary school to ultimately open a restaurant.  I am actually considering being a personal chef, and I have made posts about that here.

I can deal with people teaching me, it's just some of the approaches I can't handle.  I can't handle being beaten down, told I am passionless for just about the only thing I have fun doing in my life, being told I am ungrateful for the help that includes putting down ideas I already know are bad.  And then, when I am doubting and regretting everything I've done in the past year at school, you want me to thank you?

I don't come here to beat a dead horse.  If an idea is bad, and I say it's bad and I'm not going to do it, I don't need post after post saying "Yeah, why would you want to do crepes suzette?  It is SO overdone."  I know.  I said it before you did.

Before you beat down someone's dreams, or at the very least, something someone is spending a buttload of money on (not mommy or daddy), think about what you *don't* know about the person.  You don't know why I am where I am in my life, you don't know what I want to do afterward.  You don't know much about my personality except what comes through on screen and we know how that can be misinterpreted.

I'm sick of the tough love approach.  I can get that at school, or from my parents.  Just be nice to me, please.

KateW, allowing for the things which you have explained in your post, i think web forums have to be taken with a few grains of salt (or a big box of kosher!).

i'm very new to the "web forum" environment and am slowly learning what is and isn't acceptible. like you said, so much of what we write and who we are can be misinterpreted. i had a post removed, i assume because someone thought it was offensive but i was never given a reason why. that could have been addressed. as in other aspects of life you'll find some opinions here are more valued than others (people who have poste regularly or are "respected" members of the community). that doesn't mean anything disparaging to you. i feel that some people post on threads without reading through earlier posts (re: crepes suzettes), they just have to put something down in order to feel productive or even agreeable to what other people are saying. they don't necessarily feel as if they have to offer a suggestion, maybe they don't have a suggestion.

i think it is a little much to assume that people can somehow in their minds gather up all the threads that you have posted or contributed to and have them coalesce into a persona. our brains aren't that organized (at least mine isn't, i wonder about some people here on eGullet...they have minds like steel traps! mine's more like a steel colander). so, even if you've been posting a lot...take that into consideration.

VerbenaNZ and KateW:

overall, i do feel that most people here are extremely open, welcoming, considerate and knowledgeable. think about what you're writing and how you pose your questions. i think you'll find that writing clearly, concisely and posing a direct question which shows how much thought you've already put into a project will help garner the responses you're looking for. people will be nice to you, but you have to give them a little bit of a reason for that to happen :smile: . i hope this helps a little. sometimes, we all just need to take a break from eGullet...give it some rest and then come back with an empty head (heehee, i mean a clean slate)!

Edited to include:

"Welcome. If we can be part of your education that's great. We expect you to be part of ours."

this was a quote from "bux" after you posted your bio and i think it says it all...this is a two way street :smile: .


Edited by alanamoana (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I came up with something nobody else had mentioned (making a la minute hot chocolate with truffles and hot cream) and I felt rather proud.

Have you tried this? I've made hot chocolate on the stove with chopped chocolate and it takes a few minutes to mix the chocolate in well. I can only imagine, even starting with hot cream, that it would take quite a bit of stirring on the customer's part to mix in a whole chocolate truffle. I'd worry about these hypothetical customers ending up with lukewarm cream and lingering chunks of truffle in their cups. What would they stir with? You'd have to think of that, or think of some way to chop up the truffle after they've seen it because the glamour of the whole thing would be lost if you just handed them a dish full of chopped chocolate. You certainly would have to keep the truffles at room temp - chilled truffles would be harder to melt. What about flavor balance? Would a single truffle both flavor and sweeten a whole cup of cream - a serving size? The different varieties of truffles you offer could have different results in the cup. Think about the hot cream - would you have to cut the cream with milk so it wouldn't be so thick? It may also taste too rich with just cream.

I know your school project for this is long over and I'm not trying to make you feel bad. But when I read your idea (that me, a housewife, had never heard of), I immediately thought of these things. I don't know if you considered these things - but your not mentioning it makes it appear you didn't - and this is probably the sort of thing people are thinking of when they say it appears you have no passion for cooking. No one is trying to slam you and I'm sure we all realize that all we know of you is what you write. None of us are qualified to authoritatively say that you lack what it takes to be a chef because we don't know you - only the cyber-KateW. You can be secure in the fact that only you can really know what you're capable of and where your passion lies. Everyone here just wants to be helpful. I wish you the best of luck and am a bit envious too. I'd love to be in cooking school! :smile:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that you cannot build a persona out of a few posts on a website. Even if I were to post continuously about my life, you wouldn't know the whole picture. That's why I think everyone should get the benefit of the doubt. We all have character flaws that show through when we post.

Usually I post only when I've wracked my brain for my own answers. This was true for the a la minute dessert thread, and the mother sauce thread. I took what I knew, realized it wasn't the right answer or the best answer, and then came here for help. I didn't want to be told my ideas were boring, or overdone. That's not productive.

If someone is being particularly blunt, or naive, and you don't like their approach, be kind. Maybe they don't know any other way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The chef loved my idea, and we didn't have to make it. The would-be clients are kids, who I bet would love to have chocolate floating around in their hot chocolate. :biggrin:

I had 3 mini truffles in one cup, and my hot liquid was a cream/milk liquid, so you are wrong in thinking I didn't think of these things. Also, I had a choice of three truffle flavors in any combination of three--white, dark, and milk chocolate. The dessert also came with an extra pot of hot cream/milk to add if needed--I realize this is not cost effective but it helps the problem of melting those pesky truffles. :blink:

A lot of us are lucky for being able to choose a career in something we are passionate about. But some of us are not passionate in nature and are just looking for something they remotely enjoy that they can do for a living. And we are lucky for that too, because so many people are stuck in jobs they hate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boo hoo. I'm upset that no one has congratulated me on my idea that Verbena-NZ should make a Tunnel of Fudge Cake. I think it is a fabulous idea and I even included a link and no one is validating me. :sad:

:raz::laugh::wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ms.Kate,

In the 'passion' debate, I believe I said that "sometimes" you appear to lack passion about school and cooking. That was based on what came thru via your posts. I know it's easy to mistake someone's mindset reading a thread. I got that feeling from reading a lot of your stuff.

But, enough of that.

School is tough. I hated going to culinary school at first. I NEVER liked school of any sort much past 7th grade and when I found myself in culinary school, in my 30's, I felt like crap. Very shy, in a way,afraid of screwing things up, the teacher knew I knew a lot about food but kind of liked intimidating me. It changed about 3 months in. I got confidence, got rid of my shyness and actually ended up doing pretty well.

If you haven't decided to drop out, don't let the teachers bug you. They are perhaps preparing you for life out there, and even if you're a personal chef, there will always be conflict.


2317/5000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

click

Here~

Somebody try this~

I've never posted before, but this sounds intriguing. It has to better than "tunnel of fudge cake.

:laugh:

Edited cause I'm stupid


Edited by msfurious1 (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ms. Perlow...your a HOOT! Let me be the first to tell you how much I enjoyed your thinking!

Msfurious1, the recipe you posted is a molten cake. LOVE- LOVE your edited message note....if you wouldn't mind I'd like to borrow it from time to time-seeing how I have the affliction, please?

edited because-I don't really care enough to stuggle thru any rebuttle responses.


Edited by Sinclair (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, interesting words on feelings I have not even considered.

Rachel, I think you are one of those "more respected" members who perhaps does not need validation. I on the other hand am weak and needing of approval.

Some of you have touched on some issues of mine that are perhaps beyond the call of duty on this particular board.

I don't want to be a personal chef so I can live in a bubble--I want to be one so I can work on my own, and for other reasons based on how I work and time constraints and such. Blah blah blah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Boo hoo. I'm upset that no one has congratulated me on my idea that Verbena-NZ should make a Tunnel of Fudge Cake. I think it is a fabulous idea and I even included a link and no one is validating me.  :sad:

:raz:  :laugh:  :wink:

I'll be trying it out tommorow morning :biggrin:

Thank you so very much, shame more people here aren't as forward as offering their ideas and links to recipes.

Once again :biggrin: THANK YOU :biggrin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have tried the Chocolate Wave Cake at Disney (don't know if this recipe will really reproduce it or not) but it is GREAT!!!!!!!! I love it.

Well, it is really togh to figure out what makes anything more'ish (like the scottish moors? sort of wuthering heights hahahahah)

Verbena - the link I gave you previously provides probably the most reliable best recipe I have used for liquid vcenter cocolate cakes

maybe your search and connect function isn't working so here. This was posted by Steve Klc on the thread I directed you to. It is unquestionably excellent but performance is up to you.

Track down the Food Arts July/August 2000 issue for a charming, well-written piece on Philippe with a few recipes. Then there was that NY Times six part series which you probably saw. But by far the best source of info and current recipes by Philippe is the Thuries magazine issue #132 from September 2001--14 big full color pages, incredible photographs, with his real recipes. By real recipes I mean if his typical dessert has 11 components--in Thuries he gives you all 11 recipes and methods. His chocolate moelleux is in there:

125 g 70% chocolate

120 g butter

1 yolk

2 eggs

90 g sugar

120 g flour

you melt the chocolate and butter, combine the yolks, sugar, flour

then sir the chocolate into the egg mix now whipping. Makes a nice elastic shiny batter, important to pipe it into the preapred molds while it is still warm 3/4 of the way ensuring that you get good even bottom and side coating. Pipe it in don't spoon since the batter may pile and result in gaps.

You need aluminum molds, the batter must be chilled before baking, you need to be quite precise in removing it from the oven. Because of the liquid center you need to let them set up a few minutes before taking out of the tins. Good idea to put them in the walk in or freezer to stop cooking. They should slip right out of the tins, you can hold or freeze them then warm over steam or in a microwave for service. Getting the right rewarming is also important so that they are squishy and liquidy when served. They are incredibly boring served alone (in my opinion) but make a great chocolatey center of a plated dessert.

Or try this:

10oz unsweetened chocolate melted with 1 pound butter

combine and fold into slightly cooled chocolate:

1/2t salt

18 yolks

Whip to soft peak and fold in

8 oz sugar

6 oz whites

Pipe into buttered rings (3") on silpat or parchment lined trays and chill

They can be baked to order temp depends on your oven - we did them in a Deck oven at about 400 the need to be unmolded and served immediately.

Or try Jacques Torres Chocolate Fondant

260g unsalted butter

500g bittersweet chocolate

50g dutch process cocoa powder

pinch salt

160g egg whites

25g meringue powder

100g sugar

butter and sugar 3 oz aluminum molds and heat oven to 400 (again depends on oven type (Convection, deck, normal)

melt butter and chocolate

add cocoa powder and salt

whip whites to stiff peak with the meringue powder and sugar

fold into chocolate

pipe into molds 3/4 full freeze thaw 2 hours prior to baking and bake

Serve immediately . It is frequently useful to sort of add to the liquidity of the center by injecting it with a warm chocolate sauce

Now there are three recipes that work - in different ways. If you have tried several recipes that are not working it could be your technique. It is important to use metal molds, it is vital that the batter be cold when it enters the oven, it is critical to use a very hot oven, and the baking time be monitored since the mold size, oven performance, and going in temp of the batter affect baking time. One batch may take 5-6 minutes while another is done in 3. You have to be on top of these things and need to take action to stop the baking.

The ones Steve wrote about are the only ones that I have worked with that bake well in advance and rewarm with excellent results.

What are you planning on serving this with? Stand alone or part of a more complex plating? For your normal dessert service or for a special event?


Edited by chefette (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kate - just get over it. School is great. It is the most fun easy part of your cooking life. People here have been really nice to you, supportive, understanding and helpful. They have put alot of energy into wishing you well and onward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have so much left to say, and no idea how to say it, so I will just get over it. And no, I will not quit cooking school. I have two cooking labs, one trimester of academics and a trimester of externship (God help us). Perhaps I can find a nice job making salads. Oh wait, I screw that up too. But I'm over it. :biggrin: Consider this subject dropped, please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chefette (and Steve)

I just got my copy of that Food Arts with Conticini and am waiting for my Thuries mag with him.

I love this guy, what he's about and am so kicking myself in my ass for never getting to Petrossian when I (and he) was in NYC.

Question about his Moelleux recipe. When you talk about whipping the choc butter mix into the yolk mix, are you on a Kitchen Aid or doing by hand?

I also have those NYTimes articles with Conticini and am trying a variation on the brownie he does there.

It say's "Swiss meringue" and then describes a meringue made with confectioner sugar but not heated over a bain marie. It's my impression that Swiss meringue is egg whites and the sugar combined and then heated over a bain, then whipped to volume,etc.. That's how I do it.

Can you verify?

And thanks for posting more stuff. Awesome.


2317/5000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about the recipe in the magazine, but in my experience no whipping, just stirring or simple stirring with a whisk. Its really really simple. I do the sugar flour mix in one bowl, combine the chocolate, butter, egg, and stir it into the sugar flour (kind of like how you would mix the egg into the sugar starch mix for a pastry cream. Pipe into the greased aluminum tins. Its a fairly liquid batter when its fresh warm so you need to clip the bag closed or start with a disposable non cut bag. You do not want to let the batter chill before piping. If you have to cycle through a set of tins, its really better to just do enough in a batch to fill the tins and then prep another batch while the first is cooling slightly. Very simple. Rewarming strategy all depends on service type and pace and available equipment.

Nice results. If I was going to add somethingf it would be a pinch of salt or so. I miss that in this cake.


Edited by chefette (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
but in my experience no whipping, just stirring or simple stirring with a whisk. Its really really simple. I do the sugar flour mix in one bowl, combine the chocolate, butter, egg, and stir it into the sugar flour (kind of like how you would mix the egg into the sugar starch mix for a pastry cream.

Cool. That's how I've done it, as far as the stirring goes.

I didn't pipe, I poured. I didn't notice any gaps, just the timing is SO hit and miss. But it was fairly goey. It just never pours out of the cake like say, the Jean George Vongrichten (?) pictures always look.

RE: Salt. I'm always using it to bring my flavours up, in everything.

I made a chocolate panna cotta the other day and found it a bit flat and a pinch of salt put it right there.

Thanks for the tips! :biggrin:


2317/5000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One very low key chocolate dessert are biscotti. Do a search for Double Chocolate Chunk Biscotti or E-mail me and I will convert and post a recipe here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Verbena - give us feedback on what you ended up doing, why, and how it worked out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So Verbena - give us feedback on what you ended up doing, why, and how it worked out.

Don't worry..I will be.

Should be writting a little more within the next 24 hours :biggrin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chefette, et al,

Tried the molten cake, la Conticini, recipe again today.

Worked better, but still needs to be perfected.

Too gooshy, sides too thin.

I micro-ed for 20 seconds, it came out a bit..deflated :angry:

But that's cool, I'll get it. :biggrin:

Thanks for the tips, much improved.


2317/5000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your description Ted was your cakes underbaked...and microwaving it won't bake it only heat it. I swear/promise all you have to do is a timing test and you'll nail these. In fact you MUST do a timing test cause every oven is different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your description Ted was your cakes underbaked...and microwaving it won't bake it only heat it. I swear/promise all you have to do is a timing test and you'll nail these. In fact you MUST do a timing test cause every oven is different.

Thanks, Sinclair.

That is indeed what I'm attempting.

Today was at 4 minutes. 375 in a convection, load high.

Shocked in an ice bath, as my walk in never feels cold enough to me.

Then stored in the walk in to cool completely.

After I mic-ed, as I said the cake didn't so much deflate as collapse. And it looked like the cake was baking thru up ( I unmolded it to a plate to warm, so up was bottom and vice versa)

Do you think I should bake till top is 'sealed' looking, or still a bit shimmery?

Thanks for your input.

Going to go look back at chefettes post about baking these.

Oh, I did hit it with a bit of Fleur de Sel. And I'm using Valrhona 70 % Guanaja (sic?)


2317/5000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minute is definately not long enough if your using a 2.5 to 3" ring (the batter I use takes about 7 to 8). Yes, the top must be set/sealed -thats your hint- I go just like a minute or two past that. I think you need to go up to 400f.

And another devil about these things is a full oven of them won't bake great (although Colleen told me the recipe from 4seasons does bake well in quantity). You always get the one on the sides of your pans over baking before the center ones, even in a convection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minute is definately not long enough if your using a 2.5 to 3" ring (the batter I use takes about 7 to 8). Yes, the top must be set/sealed -thats your hint- I go just like a minute or two past that. I think you need to go up to 400f.

And another devil about these things is a full oven of them won't bake great (although Colleen told me the recipe from 4seasons does bake well in quantity). You always get the one on the sides of your pans over baking before the center ones, even in a convection.

I did 4 of them today, the recipe as it reads, as to not waste anything,and , my oven being semi crappy (uneven), had the under/overbake syndrome. I'm using 4 oz. aluminum molds, utility cups they're called.


2317/5000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Similar Content

    • By pastrygirl
      Do you ever end up with ganache that reminds you of extra-heavy mayo?  I was winging it today, testing batches that set up ok but grainy, then weirldy flexible. The 60% i usually use is 39% cocoa butter, but in this batch I used 72%, which is 45% fat.  I also made some other changes but was trying to keep a similar ratio of liquid to chocolate.  The 72% ganache is far thicker than the 60% ever is - it probably needs more cream or a splash of booze, right?  Arg, I should know this!
       
      I got annoyed and left the slab out to do whatever it will overnight - cross your fingers that it is either use-able or save-able tomorrow!
    • By beacheschef
      I'm making truffles for a wholesale customer who will be distributing them to their guests on a daily basis. I've been working on my recipes for quite a while, and have some good recipes for a number of flavors. Since the customer base is pretty varied, I'm not adding any alcohol to the ganache centers. The customer is pleased, but has asked me to expand my flavors to a few that they suggested.
      I've been working on a mint center with a white chocolate ganache and am infusing the cream with fresh mint leaves. No matter how much mint I add, the mint taste is not pronounced enough. I've also infused the mint leaves in the cream for up to 6 hours before adding the cream to the chocolate, without pleasing results.
      I've also been playing around with a fresh ginger ganache and am interested in lemongrass and other natural flavorings. Since I don't know if the customer will be pleased with the end result, I'd rather not buy the flavored compounds (I've used the mint flavor compound in a previous job) to enhance the flavor until I get a better result using the fresh ingredients.
      Do you have some advice for using natural herbs and spices to flavor ganache without using extracts, alcohol, or compounds?
    • By RuthWells
      I know this question gets asked frequently, and I've done my research, but I can't believe that I can't find a less expensive option for packaging to hold 2 truffle-sized bonbons.  The two options I liked (from Nashville Wraps and BoxandWrap) come to over $1.60 each when factoring in shipping.  There is no way to price them at that cost.  Am I missing some options out there?
    • By RuthWells
      I know the gold standard for storing molded chocolate bon bons is to vacuum-pack lightly, then freeze.  Any suggestions for an overly-enthusiastic home chocolatier with an abundance of inventory and no vacuum sealer?  My local coffe shop is selling my wares, but not as quickly as I've been producing them!
    • By Droo
      I want to make a liquid caramel filled small easter eggs - I'll be using polycarbonate moulds. Any thoughts on how I can assemble these without having the caramel run out?
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.