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The Wine Clip

docsconz

By docsconz
in Wine

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Schneier

Schneier

Posted
Posted
And Bruce, my father always told me, "it's nice to be nice" and "if you don't have anything intelligent to say, don't say it" - calling me a crackpot gives you about as much credibility as critisizing a product you've never used.   :angry:

my dad always told me that you sell more wine clips with honey than you do with a baseball bat. just paraphrasing there really. :unsure:

It's okay. In my day job I get all kinds of crackpots. Some of them, once in a while, actually have useful ideas. But it's rare.

The point of my post was not that all crackpots are crackpots. It's that it's not the job of the established experts to spend their own time and effort verifying every new idea and theory that comes along...regardless of the field. It might not be fair, and some good ideas might get lost along the way, but it's the only way for the established experts to keep any sanity in life.

First it's magnets around the bottle neck. Next it's a radio transmitter in the punt. It has no end.

Bruce

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thewineclip

thewineclip

Posted
Posted (edited)

My lord, you guys are tough. :cool:

And Bruce, I'm unsure if we sent you a wine clip. If you'd like, I'll recall it from UPS. I don't want to belittle your time.

I disagree with your comments Bruce. "Experts" in a given field need to address topics and ideas that hit their industries. What might be nonsense to you, is important to someone else. Our society depends on the opinions and insights of experts. Any expert not willing to try the Wine Clip or any other product for that matter, tips the scales unfairly and serves an injustice to those who depend on their wisdom.

What if Siskel and Ebert didn't review horror movies because they seem silly to some?

Transmitters in footballs could help the Jets, and as a fan, I say Bill Gates begins his magic. :laugh:

Edited by thewineclip (log)
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vengroff

vengroff

Posted
Posted

Not to belittle your methodology, but if I had any product that I realy believed 99% of people prefered, I would have independent blind testing done immediately, and I would trumpet the verified results like there was no tomorrow.

I'd bet money that if you went to a consumer-level wine expo and blind tested Gallo Hearty Burgundy vs. Chateau Lafitte, you would find at least five people out of a hundred who preferred the Gallo, for whatever reason. 99% preference in any sort of subjective test of taste is simply a phenomenal result.

Chief Scientist / Amateur Cook

MadVal, Seattle, WA

Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code

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thewineclip

thewineclip

Posted
Posted (edited)
Not to belittle your methodology, but if I had any product that I realy believed 99% of people prefered, I would have independent blind testing done immediately, and I would trumpet the verified results like there was no tomorrow.

--> And we are, believe me.  We're young, only a few months old.  Stay tuned...

I'd bet money that if you went to a consumer-level wine expo and blind tested Gallo Hearty Burgandy vs. Chateau Lafitte, you would find at least five people out of a hundred who preferred the Gallo, for whatever reason.  99% preference in any sort of subjective test of taste is simply a phenomenal result.

-->I think you might be losing our objective.  

With the Wine Clip, it's not about comparing Gallo to Lafitte, it's about comparing Gallo to Gallo. One is treated with The Wine Clip, one is not. End question...Which way do you like better?

On another note, I could use help if the users of eG would be so kind.  Within the next few weeks, we'll be contacting various catalogs in hope that they'll carry the Wine Clip.  Catalogs such as, The Sharper Image and W.E. --- assuming that the eG/Wine Clip taste tests are a huge success, can anyone lend an opinion as to which catalogs they think TWC would do well in?

...

Edited by Jason Perlow (log)
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Alex

Alex

Posted
Posted
I will nominate Alex to organize the and chair the test - OK Alex?

OK by me. If everyone else is ok with my being the organizer I can post or PM a suggested procedure. Craig, could you PM me with the names of those who'd like to be a part of this?

"There is no sincerer love than the love of food."  -George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman, Act 1

 

"Imagine all the food you have eaten in your life and consider that you are simply some of that food, rearranged."  -Max Tegmark, physicist

 

Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

 

"...in the mid-’90s when the internet was coming...there was a tendency to assume that when all the world’s knowledge comes online, everyone will flock to it. It turns out that if you give everyone access to the Library of Congress, what they do is watch videos on TikTok."  -Neil Stephenson, author, in The Atlantic

 

"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer

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budrichard

budrichard

Posted
Posted

One last comment and then I'll bow out of this discussion.

The reason the 'Wine Clip' is percieved to work is very simple. An individuals perception is not a rigerous means of accomplishing a measurement. Perception is not reality, as we have been taught. at least in this case. Because an individual is told that he must determine if there is a difference between two wines, his mind is subconsiously looking for the difference and in many cases, social stigma of not wanting to not perceive the change will cause an individual to confirm a positive.

When objective methods of measurement (read scientific instruments) are used and statistical variance employed, the measurements show no difference.

The 'Wine Clip' cannot be proved by individual perception, you aren't that good.

So the 'Wine Clip' works simply because it cannot be proved to not work by the methods employed.

As a trained root cause investigator, I can regale you for hours about investigations where individuals swear on a stack of Bibles that something occured and the objective instrumentation shows nothing or vice versa. -Dick

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Alex

Alex

Posted
Posted
The Wine Clip is not the type of item that will sell because of the science behind it.

There are plenty of items that sell, and sell big, that have absolutely no empirical foundation at all except for the placebo effect and cognitive dissonance. This is the point of all my previous posts.

And we are, believe me.  We're young, only a few months old.  Stay tuned...

I hope this means that you've engaged an lab to do double-blind testing. Just curious: Do you have a Plan B if the results don't bear out your claims?

--- assuming that the eG/Wine Clip taste tests are a huge success, can anyone lend an opinion as to which catalogs they think TWC would do well in?

I thought that's why you're paying those big bucks to your PR/Marketing firm. :hmmm:

"There is no sincerer love than the love of food."  -George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman, Act 1

 

"Imagine all the food you have eaten in your life and consider that you are simply some of that food, rearranged."  -Max Tegmark, physicist

 

Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

 

"...in the mid-’90s when the internet was coming...there was a tendency to assume that when all the world’s knowledge comes online, everyone will flock to it. It turns out that if you give everyone access to the Library of Congress, what they do is watch videos on TikTok."  -Neil Stephenson, author, in The Atlantic

 

"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer

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Alex

Alex

Posted
Posted
One last comment and then I'll bow out of this discussion.

The reason the 'Wine Clip' is percieved to work is very simple. An individuals perception is not a rigerous means of accomplishing a measurement. Perception is not reality, as we have been taught. at least in this case. Because an individual is told that he must determine if there is a difference between two wines, his mind is subconsiously looking for the difference and in many cases, social stigma of not wanting to not perceive the change will cause an individual to confirm a positive.

True, but in a double-blind test, and assuming no true difference between the treated and untreated wines, if subjects express a preference they theoretically should split 50-50 between the two. You then do your statistical analysis accordingly.

"There is no sincerer love than the love of food."  -George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman, Act 1

 

"Imagine all the food you have eaten in your life and consider that you are simply some of that food, rearranged."  -Max Tegmark, physicist

 

Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

 

"...in the mid-’90s when the internet was coming...there was a tendency to assume that when all the world’s knowledge comes online, everyone will flock to it. It turns out that if you give everyone access to the Library of Congress, what they do is watch videos on TikTok."  -Neil Stephenson, author, in The Atlantic

 

"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer

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hollywood

hollywood

Posted
Posted
assuming that the eG/Wine Clip taste tests are a huge success, can anyone lend an opinion as to which catalogs they think TWC would do well in?

Wine X magazine has The Wine Clip written all over it.

I'm hollywood and I approve this message.

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gsquared

gsquared

Posted
Posted
Because an individual is told that he must determine if there is a difference between two wines, his mind is subconsiously looking for the difference and in many cases, social stigma of not wanting to not perceive the change will cause an individual to confirm a positive.

Not so. A proper double blind test would mean that, a tester given two glasses will be told that both may be exactly the same, or one glass may contain the test substance. There would therefore be no expectation of difference.

Gerhard Groenewald

www.mesamis.co.za

Wilderness

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hollywood

hollywood

Posted
Posted
Because an individual is told that he must determine if there is a difference between two wines, his mind is subconsiously looking for the difference and in many cases, social stigma of not wanting to not perceive the change will cause an individual to confirm a positive.

Not so. A proper double blind test would mean that, a tester given two glasses will be told that both may be exactly the same, or one glass may contain the test substance. There would therefore be no expectation of difference.

So, you'll have a control group(s) that gets 2 of the same--both either magnetized or not?

I'm hollywood and I approve this message.

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Hopleaf

Hopleaf

Posted
Posted

So would the Wine Clip make the $1.99 Entre Nous Table Wine I saw at the store the other day (fine, I bought a bottle, but come on! a $2 bottle! at the very least you can cook with it!) taste more like a $1.99 Entre Magnetico?

And how did you ship the Wine Clip you sent to South Africa? There is International Fed Ex, you know?

I admire your conviction, Dennis. But this is as hoaky as the Ginsu knives of yesteryear. Does the Wine Clip come with an As Seen on TV sticker? or have you not yet branched your marketing out to include late night info-mercials.

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -Ernest Hemingway

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Hopleaf

Hopleaf

Posted
Posted
Craig:

What's the eG record for replies in one forum? With 91 and counting, I'm getting a complex.

and post count means nothing. just ask tommy.

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -Ernest Hemingway

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Al_Dente

Al_Dente

Posted
Posted

I'm going to Varmint's pig picking in Raleigh this weekend. I'm lobbying hard to have all the pulled pork passed through the wine clip. I figure we can cook the entire pig in about 20 mins in a massive microwave, but it will taste as though it's been slow cooked for 18 hours. :biggrin:

peak performance is predicated on proper pan preparation...

-- A.B.

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elyse

elyse

Posted
Posted
I'm going to Varmint's pig picking in Raleigh this weekend. I'm lobbying hard to have all the pulled pork passed through the wine clip. I figure we can cook the entire pig in about 20 mins in a massive microwave, but it will taste as though it's been slow cooked for 18 hours.  :biggrin:

:laugh:

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