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Jinmyo

Burger King

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, "Whopper meal, with cheese, large, off the broiler, cut in half, fries, diet."

"off the broiler"

"cut in half"

Does BK have a secret menu like In-N-Out Burger?

Californians giggle with glee at the prospect of ordering a hamburger "animal style". I wonder if BK could be as much fun.

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, "Whopper meal, with cheese, large, off the broiler, cut in half, fries, diet."

"off the broiler"

"cut in half"

Just to show you how these things actually appear in the POS printout:

hiyw.jpg

I also did some searching around the Web and, lo and behold, there are about three pages of Google hits on "off the broiler" plus "Burger King." So I'm sorry to say we can't claim a scoop here -- not even close. But we may as well get this all codified here.

Friedclams, Soba, others . . . got any other special orders to tell us about?


Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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Actually, according to J. McLamore's autobiography, the original piece-of-crap Insta-burger-broiler was used for some time in the mid-fifties until they became fed-up with it and designed a new one. They then invested lots of money in designing and building the things themselves instead of out-sourcing like McD.

Jim was a great guy to talk to about the early years. My original point was that BK always used some type of broiler, crap or not... The broiler is of BK proprietary design but built by a public equipment company.

FC,

The original redesigned broilers were indeed built in-house, at least early-on. In fact, so was much of the stainless equipment in the stores. My point was BK corporate spent large amounts starting-up in-house fabrication operations when the McDonald's method was to let the supplier design and prototype with the carrot dangling of all that future business. BTW, the original McD Fish sandwich was developed by someone working at Gorton's who spent over a year developing it.

BTW, I'm really enjoying your posts.

PJ


"Epater les bourgeois."

--Lester Bangs via Bruce Sterling

(Dori Bangs)

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, "Whopper meal, with cheese, large, off the broiler, cut in half, fries, diet."

"off the broiler"

"cut in half"

Just to show you how these things actually appear in the POS printout:

http://www.egullet.com/imgs/hiyw.jpg

I was going to ask what HIYW was but then when I saw the hiyw.jpg code it dawned on me that it means "Have it your way." Duh.


Gustatory illiterati in an illuminati land.

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Burger King's POS system is so enthusiastic about the HIYW philosophy that it prints HIYW next to every single item you order, regardless of whether or not you make any sort of custom specification. You order a large Diet Coke, the printout says, "LG DIET COKE HIYW." You order a large fries, the printout says, "LG FRIES HIYW." Order any ten things, there will be ten HIYWs on your printout no matter what. This is, I believe, a philosophical statement: even if you make no modification to the standard order, you have still had it your way. That your way is the default way does not make it any less yours. Burger King is all about equality.


Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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This is a cute site run by Burger King alumni:

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2645/bkrule.html

Among the "rules for BK customers" are:

3) Don't explain your reasoning for buying our food - we don't care.

5) Plain means NOTHING on it.

10) Park within arms reach of the window.

16) We don't have Ice-Cream - quit asking. Take the shake or go to McDonalds.

35) We don't care if you leave. We don't get commission or tips.

44) Say you want cheese right away. Otherwise we have to start all over.

52) Don't ask for stuff off the broiler and then complain cause it took too long.

63) And most importantly……

WE ARE NOT MCDONALDS!!!!!

We cannot sell you Happy Meals, McNuggets, or BigMacs!!!!


Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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I like "If you are old or ugly, no flirting." Also: "We are not mind readers" and "No stupidity allowed."


Jon Lurie, aka "jhlurie"

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Burger King's POS system is so enthusiastic about the HIYW philosophy that it prints HIYW next to every single item you order, regardless of whether or not you make any sort of custom specification. You order a large Diet Coke, the printout says, "LG DIET COKE HIYW." You order a large fries, the printout says, "LG FRIES HIYW." Order any ten things, there will be ten HIYWs on your printout no matter what. This is, I believe, a philosophical statement: even if you make no modification to the standard order, you have still had it your way. That your way is the default way does not make it any less yours. Burger King is all about equality.

I think the explaination for this is in your original 'return to BK and check out the customization process' post:

It took around 10 minutes to process the order. It was somewhat amusing to see a single beef patty emerge out of that massive broiling contraption. There was a bit of discussion of the order in the "kitchen" and the manager did eventually have to participate in the wrapping of the Whopper. To the staff's credit, they held off on assembling the rest of my order until the Whopper was "up."

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Burger King's POS system is so enthusiastic about the HIYW philosophy that it prints HIYW next to every single item you order, regardless of whether or not you make any sort of custom specification. You order a large Diet Coke, the printout says, "LG DIET COKE HIYW." You order a large fries, the printout says, "LG FRIES HIYW." Order any ten things, there will be ten HIYWs on your printout no matter what. This is, I believe, a philosophical statement: even if you make no modification to the standard order, you have still had it your way. That your way is the default way does not make it any less yours. Burger King is all about equality.

Burger King is all about the subliminal (blatant?) reinforcement of the mass delusional fantasy that we are all unique individuals individually choosing and consuming our uniquely chosen individual choices. HAVE IT YOUR WAY. As you put it so eloquently, "That your way is the default way does not make it any less yours." HAVE IT YOUR WAY. After all, if the choice is between ummm, BK and McC, is there really any choice? HAVE IT YOUR WAY. That's probably why it's so important to their corporate mantra to chant "There are 1,537 possible ways for a customer to order a WHOPPER® sandwich. (If you cut it in half, the number doubles!)" HAVE IT YOUR WAY. We're providing the American consumer with literally thousands of choices! HAVE IT YOUR WAY. BK is all about uniquely individual equality. HAVE IT YOUR WAY. Your way is the default way is a uniquely individual way. HAVE IT YOUR WAY!

I do feel lucky that I've gotten enough education and perspective to observe both with amusement and fright as I watch corporations get ever better skilled at marketing fantasies of uniqueness and individualism to consumers.

Edit: As I'm finishing up my little diatribe I'm thinking: "Have it your way" was once a truly meaningful point of differentiation because the individualization was emphasized, not the slogan. But if the phrase is repeated ad nauseum as you note when the vast majority of the choices are the default and so few people are cognizant of the possibility of individualization that it's virtually an insider's secret, well then they truly have suceeded in marketing the fantasy of (some modicum of) individualization while selling just the opposite. (Am I just repeating the same thing in different words? It's awful late and I'm neither as good a writer nor as intelligent as I'd like to be! In the morning when I wake up, roll over, and see the words that I slept with night before I'll probably be appalled. Oh well, I think there's a point in here somewhere.)


Edited by Jason Perlow (log)

Gustatory illiterati in an illuminati land.

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I think the explaination for this is in your original 'return to BK and check out the customization process' post

I'm saying this is the case on every item I've ordered from Burger King during three trips during the past week or so. Here's from another receipt, where I made no modifications of any kind to the order:

hiyw2.jpg


Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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Hmph! :shock: Obviously, I thought you were referring to the second HIYW visit, and thought that they added it to your non-customized items. Hey, can you HIYW with foods other than sandwiches? Can I get my coke with just a little ice, how about a half-lemonade-half-unsweetened iced tea, I like my fries sprinkled with pepper (I suppose preground is inevitable)...


Edited by Rachel Perlow (log)

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There are 1,537 possible ways for a customer to order a WHOPPER® sandwich

Now I know where Tom Colicchio got the idea for Craft. I always thought it was from the cheese people -- a clever bit of misdirection by Chef Tom -- but now the jig is up.


Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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As you put it so eloquently, "That your way is the default way does not make it any less yours."

. . . .

Your way is the default way is a uniquely individual way.

Choose to conform.


Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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I wonder if there's a way to get a copy of the full keyboard from a BK POS terminal, or even better a list of all the pre-programmed options.

Friedclams?

How annoying would it be if I started putting HIYW after every sentence?

Can we get an [HIYW] [/HIYW] tag for Invision Code?


Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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Friedclams, Soba, others . . . got any other special orders to tell us about?

Well no, but there is something called Burger King cuisine, as in all the nifty things you can do (BOH of course with all of the ingredients at hand.)

Mock Chicken Stir-fry, anyone? :blink: (Chopped unfrozen deep fried chicken tenders, sweet and sour sauce, lettuce, tomatoes, onions and nuked in the microwave.)

Spanish omelette? (egg mix for scrambled eggs, tomatoes and onions)

Apple pie ala mode -- thawed nuked apple pie topped with vanilla shake.

Strange, but true. All of this stuff we did without the management knowing about, after hours and close to closing time. heheh.

Soba


Edited by Jason Perlow (log)

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I wonder if there's a way to get a copy of the full keyboard from a BK POS terminal, or even better a list of all the pre-programmed options.

FG,

In my time at BK, POS was standardized with a full specification and there were multiple approved hardware/software vendors... each vendor's POS implementation was slightly different. The corporate restaurants all used one vendor's POS (IBM at that time) and franchisees tended to choose the approved hardware/software vendor which met their price/performance profile.

I can't speak for how their standardization/specs have changed, eg, the POS designs I'm familiar with didn't print HIYW on every item...

eG foodies can ask the restaurant manager which vendor provides their POS system...I suspect that all corporate restaurants continue to source their POS from one vendor and franchisees choose their own. Each vendor's POS keyboard/key layout is different and a factor used by some franchisees to choose one vendor over another (for speed of service consideration).

I personally think that printing HIYW on evey item is unnecessary clutter and confusing. It doesn't seem to be tied to any current marketing/advertising plan. The first ticket example FG customized the sandwich; FG's second example customized the meal NOT the sandwich. I don't believe this is a philosophical statement but rather a visual aid to the order taker/order assembler so assure the "customized" items are retrieved from each cooking/drink station or chute and given to the customer as a matter of order accuracy

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I personally think that printing HIYW on evey item is unnecessary clutter and confusing.  It doesn't seem to be tied to any current marketing/advertising plan. The first ticket example FG customized the sandwich; FG's second example customized the meal NOT the sandwich.  I don't believe this is a philosophical statement but rather a visual aid to the order taker/order assembler so assure the "customized" items are retrieved from each cooking/drink station or chute and given to the customer as a matter of order accuracy

Interesting. So much for my corporate philosophy conspiracy theory. But I'm not sure if I follow the logic of the use of HIYW. Are you saying that the HIYW is there because each of those items is "customized?" I don't understand from looking at the ticket what is "customized."


Gustatory illiterati in an illuminati land.

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how can one deny the delicious simplicity of the BK double hamburger, or the salty sweetness of the Sante Fe chicken sandwich?

fad8dd7e.jpg

fad8dd88.jpg

Uh.

The second looks like the inside of a handkerchef.

Gah! Jinmyo! What you been blowin outta your nose lately? :shock:


=Mark

Give a man a fish, he eats for a Day.

Teach a man to fish, he eats for Life.

Teach a man to sell fish, he eats Steak

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Actually, according to J. McLamore's autobiography, the original piece-of-crap Insta-burger-broiler was used for some time in the mid-fifties until they became fed-up with it and designed a new one. They then invested lots of money in designing and building the things themselves instead of out-sourcing like McD.

Jim was a great guy to talk to about the early years. My original point was that BK always used some type of broiler, crap or not... The broiler is of BK proprietary design but built by a public equipment company.

FC,

The original redesigned broilers were indeed built in-house, at least early-on. In fact, so was much of the stainless equipment in the stores. My point was BK corporate spent large amounts starting-up in-house fabrication operations when the McDonald's method was to let the supplier design and prototype with the carrot dangling of all that future business. BTW, the original McD Fish sandwich was developed by someone working at Gorton's who spent over a year developing it.

BTW, I'm really enjoying your posts.

PJ

PJ,

BK indeed held on to many of its home grown component parts until the 90s whilst owned by Grand Metropolitan and run by Barry Gibbons. During strategic business and restaurant of the future exercises it was decided to divest most of the component parts, eg, their wholly owned distribution company was spun off to become a separate company.

Outsourcing became the mantra. The food side of the business was leaned down to a core group of food techologists and equipment specialists who developed close ties with external vendors to develop product and restaurant equipment. This leaned down approach was also applied to IT and marketing. I remember the tears when most of the original menu developers/food techies were let go. The separate research and training building on the Miami campus looked like a ghost town.

Strategic exercises, customer and product analyses concluded that BK's menu was all over the place (remember BK pizza and mexican food??.... how about HIYW pizza at BK???) and that the customer could accept sandwiches of lower quality. Those were the days when BK was suffering market share to McD and Wendys and lacked a unique identity in the customer's mind (McD's marketing spending was astronomically high compared to BK). From those days forward BK has focused it marketing a simplified core menu of sandwiches to it focused customer group (I'll let eG readers guess who they are... hint, they're NOT eG foodies) with food items whose cost to produce has been reduced through food techology innovation, eg, in the 90s it was nearly impossible to offer a 99cent Whopper or any other burger sandwich without loss, now its a relatively commonplace.

The hamburger restaurant business is continues to be difficult to maintain a profit for its owners. BK has been sold off and leaned out by each of its owners since the original company was sold as a way to make up for restaurant profit slack. It took awhile for BK to be sold to its current investor group (there's not much left now other than the corporate restaurant and franchise revenue stream for investors to fall back on if restaurant sales slack off). Who can guess how the new management will change BK. Current market pressures by the food police have shown some flexibility outside the core menu with in-store finished baking (requiring capital investment) and focus on low-er fat chicken sandwiches.

BK still wins my taste test for customized off the broiler convenient flame grilled meat sandwiches that I can find worldwide wherever I travel to vs. the competitor flat grilled no-flame burgers. I've forgotten forever the 60s, 70s, 80s BK fresh meat flame broiled USA meat and fresh-tasty condiments of my youth. My reality is that I rarely if ever go into BK anymore.

I'm a proud eG foodie now. :biggrin::biggrin:


Edited by Jason Perlow (log)

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I personally think that printing HIYW on evey item is unnecessary clutter and confusing.  It doesn't seem to be tied to any current marketing/advertising plan. The first ticket example FG customized the sandwich; FG's second example customized the meal NOT the sandwich.  I don't believe this is a philosophical statement but rather a visual aid to the order taker/order assembler so assure the "customized" items are retrieved from each cooking/drink station or chute and given to the customer as a matter of order accuracy

Interesting. So much for my corporate philosophy conspiracy theory. But I'm not sure if I follow the logic of the use of HIYW. Are you saying that the HIYW is there because each of those items is "customized?" I don't understand from looking at the ticket what is "customized."

HB,

Customized in this context relates to how the order or order component differs from the standard menu item. FG example, if I'm interpreting the ticket correctly, shows a Value Meal which usually includes a sandwich, regular size fries and regular size drink. FG's ticket shows a LARGE fries and LARGE drink which is not the standard Value Meal menu item. I'm interpreting the HIYW on those ticket items to indicate to the order assembler to LOOK for and RETRIEVE items he/she normally wouldn't retrieve to fulfill a Value Meal.

Ditto for FG's first ticket which shows a customized, ie, non-standard Whopper/CHS sandwich. The HIYW is a quick visual clue for the order retriever to LOOK FOR a customized sandwich NOT a regular Whopper/CHS.

This is my interpretation. :biggrin:

FC

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HB,

Customized in this context relates to how the order or order component differs from the standard menu item.  FG example, if I'm interpreting the ticket correctly, shows a Value Meal which usually includes a sandwich, regular size  fries and regular size drink.  FG's ticket shows a LARGE fries and LARGE drink which is not the standard Value Meal menu item.  I'm interpreting the HIYW on those ticket items to indicate to the order assembler to LOOK for and RETRIEVE items he/she normally wouldn't retrieve to fulfill a Value Meal.

Ditto for FG's first ticket which shows a customized, ie, non-standard Whopper/CHS sandwich.  The HIYW is a quick visual clue for the order retriever to LOOK FOR a customized sandwich NOT a regular Whopper/CHS.

This is my interpretation.  :biggrin:

FC

So if one ordered a value meal and didn't super-size or customize there wouldn't be any HIYWs?

I wonder how well it works, thinking that visual reminders ostensibly lose their value with familiarity (i.e. the note taped to the front door saying "remember to take lunch" that becomes forgotten after a week or two.)


Edited by Jason Perlow (log)

Gustatory illiterati in an illuminati land.

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hillbill,Oct 17 2003, 01:31 PM]FC

So if one ordered a value meal and didn't super-size or customize there wouldn't be any HIYWs?

I wonder how well it works, thinking that visual reminders ostensibly lose their value with familiarity (i.e. the note taped the front door saying "remember to take lunch" that becomes forgotten after a week or two.)

HB,

This would be a logical POS design... but the theory has to be tested by someone (FG?) going back to the same restaurant and ordering standard menu items to see if the ticket hasn't got HIYW on those standard menu items.

Order accuracy and speed of service are key drivers to fast food restaurant success. Workers, often speaking limited English are taught to look for word-symbols like HIYW...

success is up to the restaurant manager and how well he/she trains the crew to fill the order fast and accurately. At some franchise restaurants there are speed of service timer/clocks which provide emperical measures used to grade the drive-thru crew.

HIYW slows speed of service but is considered OK because HIYW is a customer request.

Order accuracy is always the restaurant's responsibility.

Ultimately, BK order accuracy of whats in the bag is the responsibility of the customer to verify before leaving the counter.

FC

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how can one deny the delicious simplicity of the BK double hamburger, or the salty sweetness of the Sante Fe chicken sandwich?

fad8dd7e.jpg

fad8dd88.jpg

Uh.

The second looks like the inside of a handkerchef.

Gah! Jinmyo! What you been blowin outta your nose lately? :shock:

Yes, Jin. This has been haunting me for days. Excellent.

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how can one deny the delicious simplicity of the BK double hamburger, or the salty sweetness of the Sante Fe chicken sandwich?

fad8dd7e.jpg

fad8dd88.jpg

Uh.

The second looks like the inside of a handkerchef.

Gah! Jinmyo! What you been blowin outta your nose lately? :shock:

Yes, Jin. This has been haunting me for days. Excellent.

Yeah - what they said and what I said two pages ago. GAH!


Katie M. Loeb
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Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

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Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol

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