Wegmans Tandoori Oven

[mehmeh82]

Being a Wegmans Employee for 4 years, I thought I'd take the time to offer a shameless plug for the company on your boards. (I hope you dont mind.)

Here is an interesting article about the new Woodbridge Wegmans:

http://desitalk.newsindia-times.com/2003/0...ing18-top3.html

looks like Woodbridge is gonna have a few things that Princeton doesnt have!

also, at the wegmans.com website, there is a special section for Woodbridge customers. You can get a peek at the new faces at Wegmans Woodbridge (including the new pastry chef!)

[tryska]

can i ask why woodbridge is so special? what's the demographic there?

i think it's fabulous, and i love wegmans all the more for it.

[mehmeh82]

Well, I would have to say that while demographics play a very large role in how and where Wegmans selects a location and which services the store will provide, they are not its only consideration. The company is constantly innovating on the concept of what their customers are looking for in a grocery store. I have been shopping at dozens of Wegmans my entire life and one of the company's most defining characteristics is that they are always changing their offerings in-store. I can remember back when not a single Wegmans had an Executive Chef; now, even the smallest stores are getting them (the Patisserie would have been considered bizarre and ridiculous ten years ago). The tandoori oven does not seem to be because of any particular demographic (relative to the other NJ stores), but as a result of the company's desire to find new and interesting products to bring to market. It will be one of many tests for the new store. If there is enough demand, Wegmans may consider retrofitting many of its other stores with tandoori ovens (including, of course, the princeton wegmans (which, by the way, is very nice, but not the nicest )).

Another likely influence in this decision was the background of the store's executive chef. Wegmans gives a very large amount of responsibility and in-store prestige to its executive chefs; they are right up there with the store manager. Furthermore, front-of-the-house employees who interact with customers on a daily basis are encouraged to let the higher-ups know what they are being asked for. Llewellyn, who comes from an Asian background, probably realized that the demand for such cuisine exists in the market and the company agrees.

If Woodbridge can bring in the sales that Princeton does (Princeton is in the top 10 for the company in terms of weekly sales dollars) then I wouldnt be surprised to see tandoori ovens popping up in other Wegmans around NY, NJ, PA, VA, and soon MD.

[tryska]

well i'm all for tandoori ovens in the grocery store. now if only someone at Publix would do something like that.

[Steve Klc]

You mean to tell me it's mere coincidence that there's a tandoor oven in the Woodbridge Wegmans and a HUGE Indian population 5 minutes away in Iselin? It's nonetheless very shrewd to incorporate tandoor food there, it is the ultimate in "fast-good" take-away.

What kind of jobs have you done for Wegmans for the past 4 years? Might as well out yourself. I'm guessing publicist based on that tandoor spin.

By the way, your plug isn't shameless, it's more tepid than my ongoing praise for the stores since that magical day I walked into Princeton years ago. I grew up in Woodbridge and think everyone should know their store opens November 9th. It's a very depressing food town, however; from a culinary perspective I loathe returning to visit. Still, it's only 30 minutes from NYC and there's a vast commuter population within driving distance--Routes 1 & 9, the Turnpike and the Parkway all run through it. Ideal positioning, actually.

I sure hope Woodbridge turns out to be at least as committed to excellence as Princeton has. What luck if true. But, if Princeton isn't the nicest store, which is in your opinion?

And, it's nice to mention a "new" pastry chef, but there wasn't an old one since the store is "new" itself. Does this mean Woodbridge will not have the wonderful, extensive in-house Herme-consulted line of pastries like Princeton?

[Rachel Perlow]

I've emailed Wegman's more than once saying they need to open a store in Bergen County. You work from the inside to get one here, OK?

Welcome to eGullet!

[mehmeh82]

Well, just a few things I want to say...

When Danny Wegman asked Pierre Herme to provide his fine chocolates for Wegmans stores, Herme obliged with one major condition. The contract between the two parties gave Wegmans the right to sell and market the Herme chocolates, but placed a quota on the amount (in terms of pounds) that could be sold every month at Wegmans stores. As a result, only six of the 65 Wegmans stores stock the chocolates (many offer Herme-inspired creations, but not the chocolates themselves). These six stores are Pittsford (Rochester), Sheridan Drive (Buffalo), Bridgewater, Manalapan, Princeton (NJ), and Downingtown (PA). I think you can also buy them on-line, but I doubt there are many internet sales (we sell very little over the web). Whether the Woodbridge store will carry Herme chocolates really depends on how much is being sold at these six stores (I don't know the exact terms of the contract). However, the Downingtown store (our newest) carries these chocolates, so maybe that is good news for Woodbridge (our soon-to-be-newest). Finally, Wegmans may try to renegotiate its agreement with Herme, but I really don't know much about that either. I would estimate a 60% chance that the chocolates show up at Woodbridge.

I'm not the slightest bit familiar with New Jersey counties, but if Ocean, Cherry Hill, Wayne or Middletown are in Bergen County, then watch the news there (these are the only NJ locations I've seen plans for). Other locations we've been looking at include Owings Mills and Rockville (both in MD) and King of Prussia, Warrington and Lancaster (PA). When the new Service Center in Pottsville (PA) opens, expect even fresher perishable foods!

And now, my favorite Wegmans! Well, I would have to say I have two favorite Wegmans. The first is the Imperial Wegmans in Pittsford, NY (of course!). It is also known as Danny's Laboratory because many of his ideas are first tested there (the Village Square layout, the Patisserie, the full-service sit-down restaurant, the catering service) and he is often seen walking the aisles. It also has the highest sales dollars per week (nearly twice that of Princeton) and the atmosphere is just amazing. It has the highest number of Executive Chefs, Sous-Chefs, and Pastry Chefs of any of the stores and has many types of chefs that the other stores don't have (Chefs de Cuisine (in Tastings and in-store), Corporate Chefs (the company's central kitchen is minutes away), Chefs Saucier, Chefs de Partie, and they even have a Poissionier). Anyway, the layout is nearly the same as Princeton (except reversed with a big restaurant sticking out of one side and no wine store (NYS law prohibits wine and liquors being sold in grocery stores)). And I really appreciate the valet service. Number Two Wegmans is the Dewitt store (just outside of Syracuse). In terms of sales, it is second only to Pittsford. What I really like about it, though, is that is in the old Wegmans format (Wegmans has gone through 3 (4 if you count exterior) format changes in the past 20 years or so since I can remember). It has most of the things Princeton has, but stretched out; there is not a mezzanine. I think they switched from this format because the stores really were getting too big across. Then, after these two stores comes the Trinity ( ) out in New Jersey (Princeton, Manalapan, Bridgewater) and the Bethlehem and Downingtown stores (these are the first of the upgraded Pittsford layout - they have clocktowers and steeples and 40-foot-high windows). The Dulles store is going to be nice and the consultants say our Fairfax store has the best demographic yet (and the plans are amazing!).

But, anyway, I started at Wegmans #70 Produce in Elmira (probably about half the size of Princeton in square feet and doing about a third to a half of the dollar sales) and then moved over to Ithaca #71 (this store is Princeton-sized) and then got into the management internship program where I worked with people in about 10 different stores over a summer and spent some time at the corporate headquarters in Rochester. The only time I have ever stayed the night in New Jersey was for training at the Princeton and Manalapan stores. My focus was on Produce, but we were encouraged to work with people from all departments and levels of management. Now I am back in school working on a degree.

The end. My friends say I talk too much about Wegmans too.

[Rachel Perlow]

I'm not the slightest bit familiar with New Jersey counties, but if Ocean, Cherry Hill, Wayne or Middletown are in Bergen County, then watch the news there (these are the only NJ locations I've seen plans for).  Other locations we've been looking at include Owings Mills and Rockville (both in MD) and King of Prussia, Warrington and Lancaster (PA).  When the new Service Center in Pottsville (PA) opens, expect even fresher perishable foods!

Bergen County is the northeasternmost county in the state. The one up there by NYC/Rockland/Westchester NY. The closest future store you listed would be Wayne -- about 30+ minutes from my house. They should research the Rts 4 and 17 corridors. Rt. 17 particularly is one of the most commercially viable shopping strips in the country. High rents, but high profit potential as well.

I suppose having a store in Wayne is an acceptable compromise, geographically, between some of the wealthier towns of northern New Jersey (Millburn-Short Hills/Summit and Alpine/Closter/Tenafly/Paramus).

[Kim WB]

Well, I would have to say that while demographics play a very large role in how and where Wegmans selects a location and which services the store will provide, they are not its only consideration.

mehmeh, welcome to e-gullet. I'm a great Wegman's fan, and live five minutes from the Princeton store. I appreciate your "insiders view" and will look forward to your posts.

However, it is a bit hard to swallow that WEgmans' chose to install a Tandoori oven in their Woodbridge store because they like to try new things. It's simply a mater of doing a simple census search to determine the ethnic identity of the Woodbridge/Edison market...Indian. What's wrong with saying Wegman's took a look at their market, and adapted their store to it? I see that as an action that deserves accolades.

I find it interesting from your posts that there seems to be some serious competition between the stores... its an interesting employee motivation tool.

Will the Woodbridge store be doing "Hermes inspired" desserts, or something different? Whatever you do. ..keep the Nicolettes!

Once again, welcome.

[MsSumida]

The problem with most of North Jersey not having a Wegman's has nothing to do with demographics, rather the problem is space. Wegman's wants the stores And parking to have a huge amount of space at a cost within reason for them. There is really nothing available right now in those areas.

[Steve Klc]

That info about the Herme line of chocolate contract was great insider stuff--something I hadn't read elsewhere. However, the chocolates have always been readily available on the net.

I was specifically talking about the Herme-consulted patisseries--not the chocolates. The Wegmans "non-Herme" bakery stuff is pretty pedestrian, even at Princeton. Basic, garish, fluffy, tasteless. The Herme line of individual and full-size take away cakes and pastries, however, is stunningly good. It is, perhaps, the most successful implementation of a high quality, high volume retail pastry operation that I'm aware of. A real testament to the consultant and the man who hired the consultant.

Yes, MsSumida--it's the space.

[Rachel Perlow]

If IKEA was able to find a location suitable to their monstrositiessness, I'm sure a premium supermarket could too.

[herbacidal]

If IKEA was able to find a location suitable to their monstrositiessness, I'm sure a premium supermarket could too.

but that's a different animal.

with only one within a regional area, the volume passing thru any given location is higher, meaning the cost for land and etc. can be higher.

the closest 2 IKEAs are to each other in the US i'm guessing are the ones in north Jersey and and in Conshohocken, PA, and soon to be on Delaware Ave. in Philly.

Princeton to Woodbridge is already half that distance. Plus food shopping is more regular, meaning people to travel the distance to go just to Wegmans if they're a distance away, especially with other options in between.

[Rachel Perlow]

Actually, there's an IKEA in Elisabeth NJ, about 1/2 hour from the new Paramus location.

What I'm saying is that there's a Wegman's in Princeton, then they open one in Woodbridge, which is not too far from Princeton, but both are more than an hour away from me, taking them out of my regular shopping range. I'm saying that my area would be a prime target for a Wegman's, and that they should consider opening one up here, that's all.

[rlibkind]

If IKEA was able to find a location suitable to their monstrositiessness, I'm sure a premium supermarket could too.

Different profit margins makes the land/building costs sensible for Ikea, prohibitive for Wegmans.

[rlibkind]

Actually, there's an IKEA in Elisabeth NJ, about 1/2 hour from the new Paramus location.

What I'm saying is that there's a Wegman's in Princeton, then they open one in Woodbridge, which is not too far from Princeton, but both are more than an hour away from me, taking them out of my regular shopping range. I'm saying that my area would be a prime target for a Wegman's, and that they should consider opening one up here, that's all.

The Elizabeth Ikea (and Jersey Gardens) benefitted from lots of tax incentives to build where they did (on top of the former Elizabeth municipal dump, for the most part) which significantly altered the economics.

[herbacidal]

Actually, there's an IKEA in Elisabeth NJ, about 1/2 hour from the new Paramus location.

What I'm saying is that there's a Wegman's in Princeton, then they open one in Woodbridge, which is not too far from Princeton, but both are more than an hour away from me, taking them out of my regular shopping range. I'm saying that my area would be a prime target for a Wegman's, and that they should consider opening one up here, that's all.

apologies. error on my part.

didn't know there was a new one in paramus.

but woodbridge is farther from princeton than normal supermarkets tend to be from others within the same chain.

you just happen to be caught in the middle as far as being equally distant.

i would guess your area might be a prime target except for the distance. the higher densities relative to other areas wegmans serves might change things more though. gotta have access to the numbers to make that call.

[herbacidal]

Actually, there's an IKEA in Elisabeth NJ, about 1/2 hour from the new Paramus location.

What I'm saying is that there's a Wegman's in Princeton, then they open one in Woodbridge, which is not too far from Princeton, but both are more than an hour away from me, taking them out of my regular shopping range. I'm saying that my area would be a prime target for a Wegman's, and that they should consider opening one up here, that's all.

The Elizabeth Ikea (and Jersey Gardens) benefitted from lots of tax incentives to build where they did (on top of the former Elizabeth municipal dump, for the most part) which significantly altered the economics.

ah, that's always nice.

[Steve Klc]

Rachel--the IKEA analogy is an interesting one. Our first IKEA opened in Potomac Mills, VA 45 minutes south of DC a long time ago and the second one opened 45 minutes north of DC, in White Marsh, MD maybe two years ago. Just a few months ago a third IKEA opened in our area--smack dab in the middle of those two right on the beltway in College Park. So it took them decades to get the critical mass going to justify expanding beyond that original IKEA.

When the Price Club opened here in DC--they first chose a location way out Route 66 near Fair Oaks shopping mall--and many DC faithful made the 45 minute trip. Eventually they found a warehouse space tucked into an emerging Pentagon City, literally 5 minutes from downtown DC, and opened a Price Club much closer. However, parking is terrible there and many times I do not go because it's so crowded and the lot such a hassle. With urban density comes trade-offs.

In DC we're finally to get our first Wegmans but it will be, no surprise, way outside the city, in Sterling VA, past Dulles. Their second and third DC-area locations will also be way out--with plenty of opportunity for a custom build and a huge parking lot--as the Princeton Wegmans has and as I assume the Woodbridge Wegmans will have. They chose a Woodbridge space that was terribly under-utilized considering how dense that region had become. If all goes well I suspect we'll eventually get a closer location but I expect for their numbers to work, it will take a long time for this master plan to unfold. The other factors are density of residential housing and highway infrastructure. And I think this may be where that IKEA Elizabeth location analogy doesn't hold up--I wouldn't regularly shop in Elizabeth, I even hate exiting the Turnpike trying to get to that IKEA--coming South it is a major hassle. And that area stinks anyway.

The thing about Woodbridge, as I wrote above, is that it has this unique nexus of 1, 9, the Pike and the Parkway. It's genius I say, why didn't anyone else take advantage of this sooner? The Princeton location also has a junction of super highways at its front door which are easily accessible--indeed, I was shocked to learn foodies in Philadelphia weren't aware of Wegmans and weren't shopping there, it was but a stone's throw away.

Another thing, you make special trips to IKEA--you make regular trips to a Wegmans. I'm not even sure the Price Club/Costco strategy even applies so well--I tend to make special trips to Costco as well. I go to a supermarket all the time and I bet Wegmans chooses their locations to take advantage of this--get me driving home, driving by, get me instead of going to a restaurant, and get me for the weekly food shopping. Wegmans really makes it painless to go there 4-5 times a week--when its stores are located properly.

None of this mitigates your desire to have a full-sized Wegmans within your county, but I wonder if it isn't the parking or accessibility issues holding them back. Or perhaps they're just rolling out stores smartly, building critical mass and you'll get one sooner than you think!

I also think part of the Wegmans strategy is positioning--they're not trying to create a bunch of regular supermarkets all over the place--they are creating special supermarkets, special communities worthy of a special drive.

[mehmeh82]

I was just going through the Wintranet (Wegmans internal websites) and I found an old issue of the Merchant (Wegmans internal quarterly newsletter) that talks a bit about company demographics and decisions concerning new stores. I don't know how I would post this information but if anyone would like a copy, just send an email to meh23@georgetown.edu or post an address.

It's in .pdf format and about 280k.

Edited October 3, 2003 by mehmeh82 (log)

[menton1]

The problem with most of North Jersey not having a Wegman's has nothing to do with demographics, rather the problem is space.  Wegman's wants the stores And parking to have a huge amount of space at a cost within reason for them.  There is really nothing available right now in those areas.

Yes, I agree. Bergen County is so over-developed now, finding a space suitable for Wegman's is probably nearly impossible. I have the feeling they are looking, but it will take luck and real estate creativity to find something appropriate for them. I'm sure they would want quite a large space, a lot of parking, and that just doesn't exist in Bergen. Good news about Wayne, though-- that is within striking distance, at least...

[jhlurie]

A better example than Ikea is Target. Target experimented and opened a Bergen County store (in fact, screwing up BIG TIME because they didn't do their research and didn't realize they weren't allowed to be open on Sundays--they tried to open on a Sunday and the county sheriff showed up and shut them down). Target, I think, found something interesting--they started getting people coming from NYC. And apparently, despite being the first Target in the entire U.S. not open 7 days a week, the Bergen store did so well financially that they've opened up another one nearby within a year. Bergen = Big Rents/Big Risk/Big Rewards.

Westchester would seem to be a prime candidate for Wegman's too. Rockland County might be a daring choice... then again the rents are really cheap there and there's tons of space.

Edited October 3, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[herbacidal]

Just a few months ago a third IKEA opened in our area--smack dab in the middle of those two right on the beltway in College Park.  So it took them decades to get the critical mass going to justify expanding beyond that original IKEA.

well, slow and steady i guess.

And I think this may be where that IKEA Elizabeth location analogy doesn't hold up--I wouldn't regularly shop in Elizabeth, I even hate exiting the Turnpike trying to get to that IKEA--coming South it is a major hassle.  And that area stinks anyway.

not sure exactly what is meant by that. i am guessing you're implying that traffic congestion and road layouts will be factors. of that, i agree, but i would say for most people, at least initially they are less of a factor. the distance is initially the key point. not until they are more familiar with the area and such does that become as important. and i guess that depends on how much nyc tri-state residents are familar with that particular exit and the resulting problems.

I was shocked to learn foodies in Philadelphia weren't aware of Wegmans and weren't shopping there, it was but a stone's throw away.

for much of philadelphians, they're minimally aware of what is happening on the outer reaches of the greater philly metro area, or more specifically, the outer reaches that may be on the opposite boundary of the metro area.

Another thing, you make special trips to IKEA--you make regular trips to a Wegmans.  I'm not even sure the Price Club/Costco strategy even applies so well--I tend to make special trips to Costco as well.  I go to a supermarket all the time and I bet Wegmans chooses their locations to take advantage of this--get me driving home, driving by, get me instead of going to a restaurant, and get me for the weekly food shopping.  Wegmans really makes it painless to go there 4-5 times a week--when its stores are located properly.

i'll agree with that. the costco special trip i'm not familar with. the closest to me is king of prussia, and i'm in pennsauken, NJ.

[herbacidal]

I also think part of the Wegmans strategy is positioning--they're not trying to create a bunch of regular supermarkets all over the place--they are creating special supermarkets, special communities worthy of a special drive.

that would be nice. not particularly scalable and therefore good for the profit margins, but nice anyway. but it's not like profit margins are necessarily in the dumps, i imagine.

ah, the luxuries of being a private company.

[Steve Klc]

"you're implying that traffic congestion and road layouts will be factors. of that, i agree, but i would say for most people, at least initially they are less of a factor. the distance is initially the key point."

True--but perhaps "travel time" might even be more of an initial factor than "distance?" And travel time is critically affected by the traffic congestion and road layouts of a location.

And yes these are suspicions and generalizations of a typical consumer. But then I'm the kind of consumer who used to detour to the Princeton Wegmans on my way back and forth between DC and NYC!

As far as profit margins herbacidal--yes, that's another of the many plusses going for Wegmans--their prices are every bit as competitive as the Shop Rites and Safeways of the world yet Wegmans still manages to offer more diversity and a higher level of quality and customer service.