Trip to Italy 101

[hollywood]

In a way it's too bad a certain someone's not here to call you a tourist. Anyway, the answer to your question is: it depends. It depends on who you are and who's going. If you have kids going along that probably slows things down. If you see this as a survey on which to base later trips, then you might want to do 4 cities or 3 and the country. If you intend to spend substantial amounts of time online, then 2 cities would make more sense. If it's your first trip abroad, that could cut either way. It also depends if you are driving or taking trains. Cars give you flexibility and fewer delays in terms of scheduling. But you are in a bit of a cocoon. Trains require reservations (be sure to pay the little extra to get seat reservations), but increase your chances of meeting and interacting with the locals. Train food is nothing to get excited about, whereas in a car you could plan stops at places that have good stuff. The more places you try to cover the more time you spend making arrangements and getting there the less time you have to be there. There is something to be said for doing your homework and saturating yourself in just 1 or 2 spots. There's also the city and the country contrast. Something to be said for that. But being a city guy and this being your first outing in Italy, you might be more comfortable doing cities only. There's also the question of whether you are going to meet up with someone else while you are there. If you have a friend on the ground, you can get lots of info, leads and entrees that you wouldn't otherwise get. OTOH, if he's not really your friend, or he's real cheap, etc., don't go out of your way.

Two miscellaneous points: in Rome during the afternoon break/siesta, the cabdrivers routinely run red lights. Say your prayers and get used to it. In hotel minibars, you'll often find little bottles (look sort of like mini olive oil bottles) with premade Compari and soda. These are good for soothing a parched throat or relaxing after a long day of touring.

[hollywood]

Here's a cool site with pictures of stuff to see in Italy. http://www.photovault.com/Link/Cities/Euro...laces/Rome.html

[toddlowe]

two more cents worth ...

a rental car in Tuscany was a must. My bridge and I spent a few days driving in the Chianti region, and it was just the highlight of the trip. Despite the fact that I identified myself as an ugly American by insisting on wearing the seat belt, the driving was not too difficult (reading the map with a tailgaiter on my bumper at 110 kph was exciting!).

[Craig Camp]

I don't think these three cities are too much in two weeks. Remember Italy is a small place (about the size of Arizona) so you do not have huge travel times between each city (about a 4 hour average for the trip you are talking about).

I would suggest the overnight stop in Milano for two reasons:

1. I have done the land at Malpensa, take the bus to the train station, take the train to Venezia trip serveral times and it is tough. It can wreck you for days. Staying overnight in Milano means you will recover much faster from the jetlag. You can easily be in Venezia for lunch the next day.

2. Milano is really cool.

I do suggest a car in Toscana. With a car can make a great day trip to Lucca and Pisa which are both worth seeing. You can also visit some wineries and visit Siena (Chianti Classico) on another day.

[anil]

I think two weeks is just fine for Italy. Because you'll never get to know Italy well enough even if you stayed there for months; so might as well take whatever vacation time you have.

DL (Delta) flies directly VIE (Venice) - AF/BA through CDG/LHR respectively.

If you have bought tickets for MXP (Milan), take a bus from outside the terminal (2) directly to the Centrale Station - There are frequent trains from MXP to VIE aking approx 3 hrs. Watch out for pickpockets in the grand hallway of the station.

You are better off taking trains from VIE to Florence and Roma.

Actually this time of the year; I'd do Roma,Napoli and then Positano {or any other Amalfi Coast town} and leave Venice and Florence for Later ....

Edited September 25, 2003 by anil (log)

[Alberts]

My humble opinion

There are few more magical moments than walking out the back door of the train station in Venice and seeing the Grand Canal for the first time. I couldn't imagine missing this experience. Driving into Venice, on the other hand, feels like driving into Disneyland, huge car park, crowds.

With regard to restaurants there, we have found them hit or miss, even those highly recommended. Get lost in Venice through the smallest alleyway you can find. Walk and walk and walk away from San Marco, except early morning, and the evening when the tour buses are gone. Find your own small place as remote as possible. I would bet that as you search for something recommended, you will find something equally as interesting en route.

Get up early and go to the fish market near the Rialto Bridge. It is closed by 10am.

The walk from the train station to the Rialto to San Marco is literally torture in prime time with the huge flocks of daytrippers. You didn't go to Italy to see the United Colors of Benetton store anyway.

This city is magic. There is nothing like it in the world. In its remote corners you will nearly have it to yourself.

[rshorens]

A reasonably priced and well-located hotel in Milano is: Hotel Gran Duca di York ,Via Moneta 1(near Piazza Duomo and across the street from the Ambrosian Gallery, a fantastic but uncrowded museum in a cardinal's palace) phone: 02 87 48 63,

Fax 02 869 03 44.

Best reason to overnight in Milano: pick up gourmet goodies to eat on the train to venice at Gastronomia Peck, 9 Via Spadari. Too bad they don't have a branch at the airport.

Have a great time

Roz

[hollywood]

If you do stay in Venice on one of the canals, don't forget to lower the metal shades over the windows. Otherwise you could wake up to bright sunlight and lots of boat traffic noise pretty early. OTOH, if you don't have an alarm clock and want an early start.....

[Bill Klapp]

Milano is really cool, to be sure (the NYC of Italy, except that the core city is smaller and the quality of damn near everything 5 times better), but I say don't spend the night in Milano. Rent a car at Malpensa, and spend the night at Villa Crespi on Lake Orta. Dine there, or maybe even dine at Al Sorriso in nearby Soriso, a Michelin 3-star without the prices and attitude to match. Super fish dishes, and one of the best cheese carts in Europe. Looks like a bad white truffle season, but a little jaunt into that corner of the Piemonte might get you a taste. I am the resident shill for the Piemonte, and as it is your first trip, I have elected to pass upon selling its food and wine virtues to you (which easily outstrip any of the places you're going, in my humble opinion). I'll let you get all of the history/culture stuff out of the way on this trip! Go to Venice on the back end, since you need to drop your car off to deal with Venice. Flying straight into Venice has its merit, however.

[hollywood]

In his subtle way, Mr. Klapp is telling you that there's a difference between Northern Italians and those in Rome and to the South. The food, the wine, the sauces, the literature, etc.

[Bill Klapp]

I resent that! For once, I made no unflattering comparisons between my beloved province and the rest of Italy! I love Milano, but it is something of a bitch to get in and out of. And furthermore, I am broadening my admittedly parochial Piemontese outlook and actually going to Venice and Bergamo this trip! (God, I hope that I don't starve to DEATH in VENICE!) In truth, however, I do believe that a majority of Americans experience some variation of a curious life cycle of visits to Italy. Either together (as Tommy is doing) or separately, Roma, Firenze and Venezia get done. Each is unique, but a case could be made that they are three of the LEAST Italian cities in Italy. Next, Capri, the Amalfi Coast and, for some, Portofino/Santa Margherita offer the beach experience. After that, the advanced students reject the urban tourism and beach things altogether, in favor of the villa in Tuscany (or Umbria) trip, which I always view as a step in the right direction, in that it presents you with a genuine opportunity to begin to understand La Dolce Vita, the miracle of everyday Italian life (except that few are shrewd enough to do it in a farmhouse in Piemonte!). The real explorers then find their way to places like Sicilia, Napoli and other hard-core southern destinations, which I also applaud. Doofusses like me, however, take one look at Firenze and the Tuscan hill towns, and then seek out places like Torino, Genova and even tiny Norcia in Umbria, the pork and black truffle capital of Italia!

[Craig Camp]

Doofusses like me, however, take one look at Firenze and the Tuscan hill towns, and then seek out places like Torino

Fog junkie.

[Craig Camp]

Best reason to overnight in Milano: pick up gourmet goodies to eat on the train to venice at Gastronomia Peck, 9 Via Spadari.

THAT is a VERY GOOD idea!

[Bill Klapp]

It is impossible to dispute the Peck strategy, having availed myself of it so often over the years. It seems a "Tommy" (or, at least, a "Tommy's virtual persona"!) kind of thing to do...

[slkinsey]

I am broadening my admittedly parochial Piemontese outlook and actually going to Venice and Bergamo this trip!

Bergamo is a cool town. Also the birthplace of Gaetano Donizetti, one of my favorite composers.

[Craig Camp]

I am broadening my admittedly parochial Piemontese outlook and actually going to Venice and Bergamo this trip!

Bergamo is a cool town. Also the birthplace of Gaetano Donizetti, one of my favorite composers.

Bergamo is great, as is the wine and salumi bar in the AltaCitta called Donezetti, named for the composer. I OD'd on Lardo and Carne Crudo there a couple of weeks ago. Thank god for all the good wine.

[JosephB]

I resent that!  For once, I made no unflattering comparisons between my beloved province and the rest of Italy!  I love Milano, but it is something of a bitch to get in and out of. And furthermore, I am broadening my admittedly parochial Piemontese outlook and actually going to Venice and Bergamo this trip!  (God, I hope that I don't starve to DEATH in VENICE!)  In truth, however, I do believe that a majority of Americans experience some variation of a curious life cycle of visits to Italy.  Either together (as Tommy is doing) or separately, Roma, Firenze and Venezia get done.  Each is unique, but a case could be made that they are three of the LEAST Italian cities in Italy.  Next, Capri, the Amalfi Coast and, for some, Portofino/Santa Margherita offer the beach experience.  After that, the advanced students reject the urban tourism and beach things altogether,  in favor of the villa in Tuscany (or Umbria) trip, which I always view as a step in the right direction, in that it presents you with a genuine opportunity to begin to understand La Dolce Vita, the miracle of everyday Italian life  (except that few are shrewd enough to do it in a farmhouse in Piemonte!).  The real explorers then find their way to places like Sicilia, Napoli and other hard-core southern destinations, which I also applaud.  Doofusses like me, however, take one look at Firenze and the Tuscan hill towns, and then seek out places like Torino, Genova and even tiny Norcia in Umbria, the pork and black truffle capital of Italia!

Bill,

I'm glad you brought up Bergamo. We are now arriving in Milano and flying out of Torino on our 4-night visit to northern Italy, so we have decided to skip Liguria this time, and instead spend some time in Bergamo, Pavia, and Mortara on our way to Piemonte (What exactly is the latest report on the truffle situation?). Do you have any suggestions about these places?

--Joe

Edited September 26, 2003 by JosephB (log)

[Bill Klapp]

Serendipity! I'll be coming there late in the day from Venezia (and a big final lunch, to be sure), so I'll lay waste to Donizetti for dinner! And do not think that the "fog junkie" comment went unnoticed. It makes me appreciate the sunshine all the more, during the 12 or so times a year that the sun is seen in the Piemonte...

[hollywood]

In truth, however, I do believe that a majority of Americans experience some variation of a curious life cycle of visits to Italy.  Either together (as Tommy is doing) or separately, Roma, Firenze and Venezia get done.  Each is unique, but a case could be made that they are three of the LEAST Italian cities in Italy.  Next, Capri, the Amalfi Coast and, for some, Portofino/Santa Margherita offer the beach experience.  After that, the advanced students reject the urban tourism and beach things altogether,  in favor of the villa in Tuscany (or Umbria) trip, which I always view as a step in the right direction, in that it presents you with a genuine opportunity to begin to understand La Dolce Vita, the miracle of everyday Italian life  (except that few are shrewd enough to do it in a farmhouse in Piemonte!).

Pretty much describes my arc--although I did begin in Padua. But that's another story.

[hollywood]

The new chick flick, Under the Tuscan Sun, might have some relevance in terms of a look at the countryside.

[Bill Klapp]

I doubt it. It was probably filmed in Canada or somewhere in the former Soviet bloc, in order to trim production costs! By the way, if you thought that maybe I didn't like the book, the trailers for the movie make me physically ill! Apparently, the book has been turned into a Doris Day-style romantic comedy. Puh-leeese! JosephB, nothing for you on Pavia, but Mortara is the goose and foie gras capital of Italy. Trattoria Guallina, Albergo San Michelle and Ristorante Torino are the dueling palaces of goose-tronomia. Don't miss the soft goose salami and the goose prosciutto!

[hollywood]

I doubt it.  It was probably filmed in Canada or somewhere in the former Soviet bloc, in order to trim production costs! 

I was inclined toward your view when I started looking at Touchstone's official site, looking for location info. If you go to the link and then to the Behind The Scenes section, the claim is that the film was done on location in Cortona, Positano, Rome and Florence. Pretty nice locales for a sappy film. http://tuscansun.movies.go.com/main.html

[Mrs. B]

DL (Delta) flies directly VIE (Venice) - AF/BA through CDG/LHR respectively.

Excuse me, but VIE is the code for Vienna, VCE is Venice.

Tommy, I think Craig's itinerary and ideas are very solid. For your first trip do the three major cities Venice, Florence and Rome. At later trips you can expand on other areas. You are still young and I am sure you will be going to Italy more than just this time. The two weeks will give you enough time to relax a bit. In my office we recommend to clients who do not want to do a lot of research for their trips to get the DK Travel Guides (Dorling Kindersley) they used to be called the Eyewitness Guides. There is one for all of Italy and separate ones for Florence, Venice and Rome. They have pictures of each of the cities, buildings, palaces, museums etc so you can choose what appeals to you.

Venice DK Guide Books

[anil]

DL (Delta) flies directly VIE (Venice) - AF/BA through CDG/LHR respectively.

Excuse me, but VIE is the code for Vienna, VCE is Venice.

Oops my slippery fingers, I did mean VCE Thanks for pointing out - I'm sure the mistake would have not gone unnoticed beyond a few minutes on FT

[rshorens]

I love Milano, but it is something of a bitch to get in and out of.

I agree about driving into Italian cities, but getting out to the autostrada is usually pretty easy. If you're not bypassing Milano, take the train into the city- it's reasonable and quick. Then either take the train or drive to your next destination. I've driven into and out of many italian cities, including Roma, Firenze, and Venezia. Probably the most confusing time I had was driving from Piemonte back to Malpensa! I followed some airplane signs and ended up at an air force base! Anyway, it pays to invest in some good city maps.

Corragio!

Roz