Butt Fat

[Toliver]

Yesterday I was in my local supermarket and was perusing the pork butts only to find all of them had these large stickers on their respective plastic wrappings declaring they were "Extra Trimmed!". Sure enough, from what I could see, all of the butts had been trimmed of most of their fat, leaving about an 1/8th of an inch at its thickest. What little fat that was left on them seemed mighty sparse and this confused the heck outta me.

Is a trimmed pork butt a good thing? The butchers in this supermarket obviously thought so. I have always heard otherwise. My thinking is that the moist, tender richness of the pork butt comes from the fat and if it's trimmed, like these were, they wouldn't be tender and they wouldn't have the flavor they should have then if they had the fat left on.

So what's the word on pork butt fat? Did the butchers ruin a "good thing" (a la Martha)?

[MatthewB]

Never trim before cooking.

[sherribabee]

and was perusing the pork butts

Things that sound dirty...

[Toliver]

Never trim before cooking.

Thanks MatthewB,

Then I was right to pass up the trimmed butts. This irks me, nonetheless, because I had a hankering for some good butt!

[=Mark]

Another instance of politically correct butchering processes gone mad. It's bad enough that they are breeding ridiculously lean hogs that result in pork that is dry and flavorless. To counter this they then proceed to inject the pork with up to 12% water, brine and god knows what else. Then they go and trim off whatever porcine piggy goodness remains.

[col klink]

The butt is my favorite cut of pork, well, the whole shoulder is really. The shoulder is the one cut of pork that doesn't really need all of it's surface fat since the shoulder is already 20% fat throughout the muscle. However, if you have a choice between two butts and one has more fat, go with the fat.

[phaelon56]

I just tried smoking a large (~ 7 lbs) butt (pork, that is) for the first time and trimmed the excess surface fat off just as I do when smoking ribs. Believe me.... there was enough fat internally to yield a good rich flavor when the smoking was complete. I'm sure the result could have been even better but it was definitely fatty enough.

OTOH, I bought a whole pork tenderloin recently at an insanely low price (Manager's Special on last sale date) and trimmed it into steaks that were frozen and then grilled in my little Foreman grill. Certainly cheap and easy for a bachelor but the pork was so lacking in taste and character that I may as well have been eating unseasoned turkey burgers. Scarier still was a package of boneless chicken breasts I recently spotted - listed as "water added". Where will it stop? Will they start adding water to our water?

[Toliver]

The butt is my favorite cut of pork, well, the whole shoulder is really. The shoulder is the one cut of pork that  doesn't really need all of it's surface fat since the shoulder is already 20% fat throughout the muscle. However, if you have a choice between two butts and one has more fat, go with the fat.

Thanks, col klink! I was hoping you were around...

The supermarket did have shoulders next to the butts , but for some unknown reason I completely passed them up when I saw the poor fat-less condition of the butts they were offering. Chalk it up to "trim-shock". Looking back, the shoulder with the bone-in probably would have been a more flavorful choice. There's always next weekend (and changing supermarkets would be a "good thing", too).

I don't know what those butchers were thinking or how they can justify selling them. I just can't believe they would screw up so many butts like that. There's nothin' worse than a dry butt. I'm thinking some butcher trainee f'd-up so they were trying to make it look like they did it on purpose.

Grrrrrrrrrr.....

[snowangel]

So I'm at the store today, and they had ribs on sale. There is a customer complaining that she wants ribs that have NO fat on them but won't be dry and stringy -- she wanted them to taste like ribs that had a fat cap, but didn't want a fat cap. I rolled my eyes. The butcher recommended brining, but did add that without some fat, they just won't be the same.

Fat is a good thing.

[col klink]

Thanks, col klink!  I was hoping you were around...

The supermarket did have shoulders next to the butts , but for some unknown reason I completely passed them up when I saw the poor fat-less condition of the butts they were offering.  Chalk it up to "trim-shock". Looking back, the shoulder with the bone-in probably would have been a more flavorful choice.  There's always next weekend (and changing supermarkets would be a "good thing", too).

I don't know what those butchers were thinking or how they can justify selling them.  I just can't believe they would screw up so many butts like that.  There's nothin' worse than a dry butt.    I'm thinking some butcher trainee f'd-up so they were trying to make it look like they did it on purpose.

Grrrrrrrrrr.....

Toliver, the butt is actually part of the shoulder, it's the top part, above the shoulder joint. And teh shoulder is the one cut of pork that doesn't really need a fat cap though it does help for smoking and long sessions in the oven if roasted dry. If you don't have the fat cap, just mop/baste every half hour and you'll be fine.

As to the butchers, I'm pretty sure they're trained to trim all excess fat. The public at large demands it as part of their desire for healthier living. The meats that are put on sale either that way for a "quick sale" or their distributers gave them a deal, usually that is. I doubt that they were on sale due to incompetence.

edit: The only way I can think of to get fat caps on shoulder, butts or otherwise, is to buy them with the skin on. In Seattle, the Vietnamese grocery stores in the International District would sell shoulders with skin. You'll probably have to find an ethnic grocery store with a butcher or start talking to your grocery store's butcher and find out where they buy their meat. Maybe you can talk with the distributer and get something closer to what you're looking for.

Edited September 9, 2003 by col klink (log)

[snowangel]

edit: The only way I can think of to get fat caps on shoulder, butts or otherwise, is to buy them with the skin on. In Seattle, the Vietnamese grocery stores in the International District would sell shoulders with skin. You'll probably have to find an ethnic grocery store with a butcher or start talking to your grocery store's butcher and find out where they buy their meat. Maybe you can talk with the distributer and get something closer to what you're looking for.

Klink, do you remove the skin before smokin'? They carry butts with skin on fairly regularly at my local asian market, and saw them the other day at Cub.

SHould one have a butt/shoulder with a really nice fat cap, would one need to mop? What kind of mop?

[Stone]

All the shoulders I've bought have had a thick lining of fat on them. I always thought that was the fat cap. Whatever it is, I leave it on. I've never mopped a butt. Never had to.

[col klink]

For the shoulders avec skin, take it off and leave as much fat as possible Skin blocks access to the meat and you end up with a less smokey product. Since the shoulder doesn't have much of a fat cap (< .5"), I'd still mop, but not as much. For a typical butt without a fat cap, 5 lbs to 7+ lbs, I'd start mopping with after 3 hours, repeating every half hour with you mop of choice. With a fat cap I'd still mop and start at 3 hours into it, but probably would only mop every 45 minutes to an hour. Total time in the smoker is 10 to 12 hours.

The reason why I mop my butts is not so much a fear that it will dry out (though it can happen if you don't pay enough attention to the fire), but to add an acidic aspect to the final product without drowning it in sauce. Smoked pork shoulders are very heavy beasts and the acid in the mop helps to cut through that so you can add more pork fat to your arteries in a given sitting.

My mops don't tend too far from a mustard vinaigrette, evoo, mustard and your choice of vinegar. I also add plenty of hot sauce too or add more or less mustard. The only thing I wouldn't add to it is sugar (sugar, if desired, can be added within the last half hour) since it tends to burn. You can make Thai and Indian inspired mops by adding curry pastes or more tradional mops by adding burbon, tomato sauce and appropriate spices. I rarely use tomato based sauces because I found early on in my experiments that they reduced the overall smokiness of the meat, especially pork.

[Toliver]

col klink,

Are you doing an eGCI class on smoking/bbq-ing or pork in general?

The reason I ask is because I think it's exactly this kind of info that would be great to have at one "click" and would benefit all eGulleteers. Your posts, some scattered over a handful of different threads, offer some great insight and very practical "how to" information. If you could gather up all your info, it would make a great eGCI class.

I've suggested in another thread (tanabutler has too) that there should be some sort of repository for this kind information on eGullet (outside of eGCI or perhaps part of it). It would be a kind of one-stop shop where everything you would want to know about different subjects would be gathered, instead of having 5 or 6 eGullet windows open trying to follow a thread ("See Jim Dixon's brining method on the 'roast chicken thread' "...and so on).

If your great thread that you posted with step-by-step smoking (with pictures) could be combined with your other informative pork/smoking posts, it would be a tremendous read.

Or is this a pipe dream?

[col klink]

Or is this a pipe dream?

You're in luck, September 27th I'm running a class on smoking meat.

Y'all want me to go through a pork shoulder? I'm just starting on the curriculum right now. There's going to be some meat theory, how to smoke with a weber, and a bullet. I'm not sure what everyone would like to see in a class.

One of the reasons I was made coordinator was so that I could bring all of this information together, but with the prepping for a wedding, the wedding, buying a house, buying a new truck, the move, the movers not moving our belongings and working on the new house, I've had quite a busy summer and I haven't been able to do my duty.

However, now that I have a bed to sleep on and internet access at home, I can concentrate on what's important -- meat, glorious meat. So what do you guys want to know?

[Jinmyo]

Or is this a pipe dream?

You're in luck, September 27th I'm running a class on smoking meat.

Klink! Klink! Klink!

[Toliver]

So what do you guys want to know?

This may sound like a stupid question but will your class be tailored to address just smoking and smoking issues? Or will it encompass more topics than that (grilling vs. barbecuing, direct heat vs/ indirect heat, marinades, brines or rubs, etc). If it doesn't, I hope there will be a barbecue/grilling class at eGCI (=Mark? jmcgrath?, et al).

I think if you're able to gather up and incorporate the info in your past posts/threads, that would be a great start (or even a class!). Like I mentioned before, your "minute-by-minute" smoking post was great. Something along the lines like you've been posting about what cuts of meat are better suited for smoking and which aren't, what happens to the meats at certain temps and why that's important, does the type of wood/briquette used really make a difference, using rubs, marinades or mop sauces (or are they even neccesary?), how much time is involved, why kind of equipment do you need, how is cold smoking different than regular smoking, the importance of letting meat rest, and on & on. I am sure there are many more smoking topics that other eGulleteers can come up with.

col, I am looking forward to the class!

[jmcgrath]

I have to disagree with many of the other posters. I think the fat cap adds nothing to the final product and diminishes the quality of the bark. I find mopping or basting to be a totally worthless exercise. There is plenty of internal fat in a pork butt to keep it moist.

Do what works best for you. I have described what works for me.

Jim

[sacre_bleu]

Klink, seems like you've got a master's grasp of the subject. But a humble suggestion from a veteran home barbecue guy: Warn 'em off the crappy cheap water smokers. I just about quit barbecuing trying to control my Brinkman. Switched to a Weber kettle, did better. Graduated to the Weber Smoky Mountain Cooker (The Bullet) and all the sudden barbecuing wasn't a gamble any more. Could stop fretting temps all the time and spend my time on more rewarding pursuits, like perfecting my honey chipotle glaze and working through margarita permutations.

Now I cook two cases of spares and a case of butts for a party every year, without fear or fumble.

Your course. You tha man. Just my $.02.

[col klink]

Thanks for the advice sacre bleu, I appreciate it. It's been noted on the forum that the el cheapo water smokers that you speak of are definitely horseshit. I've had plenty of experience with the smokey mountain and I definitely encourage its use. I use a Chargriller Smokin' Pro myself and hardwood logs, whatever I can get my hands on.

jmcgrath, I certainly understand your position, it's just that I'm not a fan of a crunchy and possibly tough exterior. I've also come to the conclusion that most of the flavor is in the fat so I try to maximize it (within reason) whenever I smoke. But it's all up to individual tastes.

toliver, my meat theory is going to cover grilling and smoking as well as the various temperatures involved. I'll make sure to cover different types of wood as well as brining versus marinades versus rubs. It won't be a magnum opus, but it should be informitive.

Hmmm, I'm starting to think that starting out with a slab of meat that will take 10 to 14 hours may not be the best to start out with. This course is supposed to encourage people to smoke more and not frighten them from the long hours. Would turkey be better? Even a 25 bird will finish in less than 3 hours when brined. Plus that will get people excited to do turkey for Thanksgiving. Actually, with the carcus, they can make stock and retrieve the fat for doing gravy at Thanksgiving. Smoked turkey fat and stock makes the best gravy.

[snowangel]

Hmmm, I'm starting to think that starting out with a slab of meat that will take 10 to 14 hours may not be the best to start out with. This course is supposed to encourage people to smoke more and not frighten them from the long hours. Would turkey be better? Even a 25 bird will finish in less than 3 hours when brined. Plus that will get people excited to do turkey for Thanksgiving. Actually, with the carcus, they can make stock and retrieve the fat for doing gravy at Thanksgiving. Smoked turkey fat and stock makes the best gravy.

Good idea. I'm working up to a smoking something that will take a long time, but I'm not there yet.

When you discuss meat, would you also please address cuts to avoid and what to look for in the hunk o' flesh? As well as meat prep before brining, etc.?

[phaelon56]

It's been noted on the forum that the el cheapo water smokers that you speak of are definitely horseshit.

I disagree but only within certain parameters. I have a $1,200 espresso machine that kicks ass if properly used - I make better espresso than I can buy out in just about any cafe in the US, barring a dozen or so that are really serious about their craft. There are $200 espresso machines that can come pretty darn close to or equal the output of my machine with the right operator but they're less consistent and have plenty of limitations. Beyond that (lowest end) are plenty of machines in the sub $200 category that can never make real espresso no matter who's using them.

I have a Charbroil h2o smoker. It has plenty of limitations...

1) has to be replenished every two hours with more wood chips if you want a reasonable amount of smokiness

2) is very sensitive to ambient temps - if the outdoor temp drops below 60 degrees or there's a cold wind.... it may never be able to get a pork butt up to 195 degrees for proper pulling

3) fit and finish isn't great - the lid on mine has a gap where smoke escapes and I have to plug it with tin foil

Soooo.... why do I even bother?

1) it was a cheap and easy way for me to try out smoking and decide whether I'd smoke often enough to justify a larger investment

2) it really does smoke - the same can NOT be said of the little smoker boxers that people throw into a conventional propane grill - classify those as being like the $100 espresso machines - it ain't never gonna make the real thing

3) It's easy to start and use - cleanup is minimal - it's also reliable - mine sat outdoors for two years without being used and worked like a charm when I plugged it in again

4) I'm lazy - I like the set it and forget it aspect

5) It does a great job with ribs, chicken and fish - think of it as the $200- $300 espresso machine - great for the causal user and with diligence and proper process it can produce stellar results but has limitations

Would I like to have a Smoky Mountain, a Big Green Egg or some kick-ass rig? Yes but I'm also (at present) renting my living space and have no desire to become further encumbered with yet another large, heavy device that requires storage many months of the year (I'm living in a northeastern US area where winters are long, cold and snowy).

Not trying to be contentious here but I think H20 smokers are unfairly slammed without a balanced discussion of where/how they fit into the scheme of some folk's smoking needs. I'll put my pampered smoked ribs from the $80 Charbroil up against anyone's ribs from a high end smoker and bet I can equal, better or at least come close in quality every time.

Edited September 12, 2003 by phaelon56 (log)

[Toliver]

Would turkey be better? Even a 25 bird will finish in less than 3 hours when brined. Plus that will get people excited to do turkey for Thanksgiving. Actually, with the carcus, they can make stock and retrieve the fat for doing gravy at Thanksgiving. Smoked turkey fat and stock makes the best gravy.

Good idea. I'm working up to a smoking something that will take a long time, but I'm not there yet.

I'm with snowangel. A turkey sounds great...not so daunting yet it will still be a good achievement. And I agree, a smoked turkey makes for a great Thanksgiving. The leftovers made into gravy, stock, soup, etc, are "kicked up a huge notch" (to borrow an over-used phrase) thanks to the smoking.

[jmcgrath]

jmcgrath, I certainly understand your position, it's just that I'm not a fan of a crunchy and possibly tough exterior. I've also come to the conclusion that most of the flavor is in the fat so I try to maximize it (within reason) whenever I smoke. But it's all up to individual tastes.

I think we are discussing some fine points here that many folks may not care about. I don't think the flavor is in the fat, but on the surface of the butt where it is a combination of surface meat, spice rub, and smoke. I completely trim off the fat cap and after cooking, finely chop the bark (suface meat) and mix it into the pulled pork. I often save some of the chopped bark and serve it on the side.

There are many ways to cook a butt and there is no right way, just what one prefers.

Jim

[col klink]

Ahh, I just realized something, you completely break apart and mix all of the pork together before you serve! I just pull the butt off the smoker and then I basically have to get out of the way before my guests starting eating me as well! We basically just pull off portions and try not to get pork fat all over ourselves.

I can totally see why you like a crisp bark, it adds to the overall texture.