The Raw and the Cooked

[Ondine]

I have been discussing this with some friends of mine and thought I'd bring the topic up here for discussion by people who might care .

I find that my ideas of when food is cooked are quite different from that of a lot of people I know. For example, I think that fish is overdone when it 'flakes easily from the bone' as stipulated in a number of recipe books. I like it to be just still clinging to the bone. I like my chicken to be just opaque at the centre, with the bones still red in the middle. And I have had arguments with my housemates about pork roasts that are just pearly pink in the centre. And I like my beef still a little bleeding in the middle (though I know this is just me). I like my vegetables to be still crunchy - roasted vegetables I find a little too mushy - and only just having lost that green, sappy raw taste. Long-simmered stews don't seem to hold much charm for me - perhaps it's a texture thing. I don't cook via thermometer either (' roast until attains 165F') as I never seemed to get the hang of it.

The thing is, I know that a lot of this is the way I grew up and what I am used to. But I would like to know if any of you guys can tell me: is this just a case of personal idiosyncrasy or is it an actual, established, legitimate cooking style? I mean, does everyone else cook things until it's done, done, done, and I am kinda odd; or am I channelling some strange raw-food impulses?

I'm just worried that this may stop me from enjoying wonderful food like the slow-cooked pig barbeque that so many people drool over. Their descriptions sound so good.... Should I be right to wonder?

[Jinmyo]

Beyond and around personal preferences are what is most appropriate to bring out the best flavours and textures of various foods. Some vegetables should be al dente crisp. Others become sublime when almost melted. Some meats should be rare, others well done but still moist and tender. Some need to be well-done in order for collagen and so on to render the meat tender and toothsome. Some become rubbery and tough when even brought to medium rare.

So: Depends.

[Oreganought]

So: Depends.

In a nutshell.

[enthusiast]

after seemingly years of undercooked vegetables (al dente run riot) its great to get back to having them properly cooked

[Carlovski]

You must be pretty confident in the freshness and providence of your ingredients!

I'm with you on some things, some vegetables need the briefest of treatments, but most do improve from a 'proper' cooking (not till mushy - even though I am English but still cooked). Roasted beef and steaks yes, but I also love slow braised bits of cow. Undercooked chicken turns my stomach, the cuts of pork I like benefit from a long cooking (especially belly pork) and I like my Lamb with a hint of pink - not rare.

It depends with fish - On the bone, I like it until it is just flaking off the bone (Maybe so it is easier to eat!) but steaks and fillets of some fish I like to be undercooked (especially tuna and salmon)

[fifi]

For some things there isn't really a "right" way. Take green beans for example. Really good ones are great lightly sauteed. But then they are also good stewed long and slow. Same veggie... two completely different dishes. Both good.

For some things, there is a "right" way. Good steak well done is not "right". Brisket cooked less than a few hours is just about inedible.

Then there are personal preferrences. Under done fish makes me gag. But that is just me.

[Hest88]

Hm. I'm with Ondine on veggies. Perhaps it's the Cantonese influence, but I like nearly all veggies just cooked through and still crunchy, and I like fish just barely cooked as well.

As for meat: I don't like chicken at all, usually, so I can't comment on it, but I know all my relatives consider the best chicken the kind that's pink at the bone.

As for braised meat, hm. I'm actually not all that fond of braised meat because most I've eaten is cooked with red wine. It no longer tastes like the orginal meat to me. BBQ, though, I love, and expect it to be falling off the bone. It still tastes like pork or beef. Things such as Korean BBQ I'm love as well, even though it's well-done; the marinade makes it wonderful.

[fresco]

Having lived through the crunchy vegetable phase, I'm happy we're beyond it. As far as fish goes, the big surprise for me was how much cooking monkfish required relative to other species

[torakris]

I prefer most of my food in the raw state, especially fish and beef

others benefit from some cooking but I still like it pink, my husband freaks out when I serve pinkish chicken

I will never forget my first trip to Spain, it was the first time I had "pink" pork and it was the most amazing thing, ever restaurant I went into I ordered what ever pork they had on the menu. I returned to the US and tried to convince my mom that pork cooked well done is not a good thing, she is still convinced it is too dangerous

[Carlovski]

I'm pretty sure the dangers of non cremated pork are less of an issue nowadays, in the same way that pork didn't used to be safe to eat in the summer.

I still would go for the 'low and slow' cooking for pork though.

[=Mark]

I have issues with the apparent 90s fad of undercooked veggies. If it's in a salad, OK let em crunch. As a side, please cook them.

Also, things like pork ribs that are lauded as being "Falling off the Bone" tender are simply overcooked. There should be some resistance.

As to pink chicken, breeding of ever faster growing chickens has resulted in commercial chickens that are slaughtered before the bones have fully calcified. As a result, when cooked, myoglobin from the bones leaches into the meat near the bones giving it a pinkish cast, no matter how well cooked. I've seen signs in chicken and rib places about this trying to quell fears of customers who worry they are getting undercooked food.

[wawairis]

after seemingly years of undercooked vegetables (al dente run riot) its great to get back to having them properly cooked

What enthusiast said.

I simply cannot digest raw broccoli or cauliflower (I've been asked not to eat them). It's so nice to go to a restaurant where they're not afraid to apply a little heat to the veggies. I'm not at all fond of the local Asian style broccoli "trees".

[Jinmyo]

I'm not at all fond of the local Asian style broccoli "trees".

 

What do you mean? What are they?

[=Mark]

I'm not at all fond of the local Asian style broccoli "trees".

 

What do you mean? What are they?

Uncooked broccoli florets. Look like little trees (And have similar consistancy...)

[wawairis]

I'm not at all fond of the local Asian style broccoli "trees".

 

What do you mean? What are they?

Uncooked broccoli florets. Look like little trees (And have similar consistancy...)

And cause such intestinal ditress!

[guajolote]

Brisket cooked less than a few hours is just about inedible.

Ethiopians eat their brisket raw. It's called kitfo.

[pastramionrye]

vegetables like green beans, favas and peas get sweeter when they are properly cooked and not served underdone.

[slkinsey]

vegetables like green beans, favas and peas get sweeter when they are properly cooked and not served underdone.

I'm with you on the green beans and peas... but I can't agree that there is any better way to eat fresh fava beans than shelled and raw.

[pastramionrye]

maybe the smaller ones, but favas can be too startchy when underdone.

[arjay]

Those who eat underdone pork and chicken should be hit with a hammer.

[jhlurie]

I'm just worried that this may stop me from enjoying wonderful food like the slow-cooked pig barbeque that so many people drool over. Their descriptions sound so good....    Should I be right to wonder?

Yes, but those slow-cooked meats are cooked at a lower temperature. It's a complicated formula, and we need an expert like our old buddy col klink to comment, but trust me... its totally different from "overcooking" something at a higher temperature.

And something like a Pork Chop? I dunno... I think like this:

[mixmaster b]

Those who eat underdone pork and chicken should be hit with a hammer.

What constitutes underdone?

I have been doing pork loin and chops medium/ medium rare lately, and the result is much better than old-fashioned overcooked.

The risk of trichinosis is much less than it once was, and most agree that cooking meat to 137-140 degrees kills trichinosis on the unlikely chance that it is present. More info here.

Chicken, on the other hand, should be cooked through. But again, just cooked, so the flesh is no longer pink. I don't think it needs to be tough and stringy to be safe.

[PCL]

My grandmother steams chicken in a wok, basting it with fat from another chicken, giving it a nice rich yellow colour. Don't know how she times it but she gets the flesh just cooked. It's very good, but dependent on the quality of the bird. She visited once and cooked a supermarket bird, and we agreed that it was the chook.

The thigh meat is crazy like this just firm, still slippery, and the well cooked skin divine when dipped in a sauce of soy sauce, sesame oil, garlic and chilli... and spring onions, i believe some know it as scallions...

I wouldn't get grandma to cook if the bird wasn't reared properly.

[Bux]

Chicken, on the other hand, should be cooked through.  But again, just cooked, so the flesh is no longer pink.  I don't think it needs to be tough and stringy to be safe.

We generally eat pork at a temperature in the 140s F. A good tenderloin will be hard and tough if it's cooked much more than that. As for chicken, we used to cook it until it still shows some pink at the joints and that's the way I like it, but my wife won't serve it that way any more even though we try to buy chickens from small producers at the greenmarket or lately, the Canadian Gianone chickens here in NY. The day I'm fed dry scrambled eggs, or can't get a soft boiled or sunny side up egg, is the day I stop eating eggs. Yes, we try to avoid supermarket brand factory eggs.