Soy Milk in desserts

[Lesley C]

I remember making an excellent coconut cream pie from a Martha Stewart recipe last year that contained a custard made from coconut milk. It's definitely worth tracking down.

I'll look and see what magazine it came from.

[Jason Perlow]

"A ginger-flavored crust, coconut pastry cream, and sliced tropical fruits make a tasty pareve tart for the high holidays. Aunt Sadie would approve. It's a Good Thing." -- Martha Stewart Jewish Living

[arlene]

There's no dairy in coconut cream? When you infuse milk with coconut and use that obviously thats dairy but you're saying that a can of cocoa lopez or the like would be lactose free? Wow thats a great idea.

[Alex]

It's out of print (and supposedly will be reprinted in a few months), but run, do not walk, to locate a copy of Chef Sato's All-Natural Desserts, by Satoru Sato. (Amazon and eBay don't have any, btw.) I was able to find one in my local library system.

Chef Sato is head cook and pastry chef at Bizen, an incredible organic Japanese restaurant in Great Barrington, MA. His cookbook features "42 Delicious Sugar-Free, Dairy-Free Cookies, Muffins, Cakes, Pies, Pastries, and Other Irresistible Sweets."

I had his Tiramisu at Bizen last month -- it was wonderful! My cousin says that his Chocolate Raspberry Cake is even better. If you can't find the book I'd be glad to send you a copy of these two recipes plus a couple others. Just PM me.

L'shana tova, in advance.

[Malawry]

Just to be clear, I am referring to coconut milk, not coconut cream (which, due to its high sugar content, would probably not be easily subbed for regular milk). I just checked a can of coconut cream and the type I have does not contain any dairy products, though.

-Malawry Stewartz

[bloviatrix]

"A ginger-flavored crust, coconut pastry cream, and sliced tropical fruits make a tasty pareve tart for the high holidays. Aunt Sadie would approve. It's a Good Thing." -- Martha Stewart Jewish Living

You mean dear old Miriam Stewart.

[bloviatrix]

I have cooked with Edensoy soy milk (which I regard as the least offensive soy milk) with moderate success. Some soy milks have a tendency to split when cooked for a long time, so I usually add them at the end of cooking. I've used them more like I would real cream to finish a sauce or soup than as the base of something like pastry cream, but it's worth a shot. BTW some people vehemently disagree that Edensoy is the least offensive, and I've learned over time that different soy milks can be better for different activities. I think Vitasoy froths better for a soy milk cappuccino (sorry Lesley), for example, but it's not as rich as edensoy. And for some, rice milk or almond milk simply taste better than soy milk.

Go to a natural foods store and buy single-serving containers of soy and other milks, it's the easiest way to sample several types. Then give it a shot and tell us what happens. Maybe you could make a soy pastry cream and a dairy pastry cream and compare them side-by-side if you really want to feel rueful. 

I've used Edensoy, Vitasoy and Zen Don soy milks. Mostly I've used them in "creaming" soups and in my pumpkin pie. With all of them, I've learned you have to be careful with the temperature. If they hit a rolling boiling they tend to curdle. Personally, I find the taste of soy milk noxious, so I will try to convince my dear Blovie to do a taste test for me.

Last year I made a soy milk based pastry cream using the recipe in New Jewish Cuisine by Carole Sobell -- I made a raspberry tart. It never thickened as much as I would have liked so the pastry cream ran all over the place when the tart was sliced. I'm not sure if the runniness was due to the recipe or the soy milk. When comparing her recipe to RLB's in The Pie and Pastry Bible and Payard's the big difference other than the soy milk is that her recipe calls for flour as a thickener and RLB and Payard both have cornstarch and butter. I think the lack of butter may have something to do with consistency. I don't know if margerine will have the same effect, and I really don't want to go over-board on the margerine. It's really an awful product.

[thebaker]

I worked for 1 1/2 years at a kosher (very strict) restaurant.

even thought we did not serve meat I could not use dairy because we where also vegan (at the time)

I dislike soy milk I prefer rice milk or Coconut milk ( which I made because the rabbi did not like any thing we bought )

I made pastry creams and everything and people could not belive they where dairy free.

I have some great recipes for tarts and stuff... just let me know and i dig some up

[Suzanne F]

Coconut "milk" can be made with water, and usually is. So the canned stuff should be fine to use (not "lite" though; but then I dislike "lite" ANYTHING). Just check the label, or if you make your own, use hot water.

[bloviatrix]

I worked for 1 1/2 years at a kosher (very strict) restaurant.

even thought we did not serve meat I could not use dairy because we where also vegan (at the time)

I dislike soy milk I prefer rice milk or Coconut milk ( which I made because the rabbi did not like any thing  we bought )

I made pastry creams  and everything and people could not belive they where dairy free.

I have some great recipes for tarts and stuff... just let me know and i dig some up

thebaker, what restaurant did you work at? Was it in New York?

Plus I would love your recipe for pastry cream.

Thus far, I have settled on one dessert. I'm going to make a strawberry and vanilla infused balsamic vinegar sorbet for lunch on saturday which I will serve in martini glasses. This leaves me with the need for a "showpiece" dessert for friday night dinner, and something for sunday lunch. Saturday night will be a light meal, so I don't plan on making a dessert.

I'm considering hosting a big open house on saturday afternoon with about 8 different desserts. Last year I made assorted biscotti/mandel brodt, cookies, a flourless chocolate cake and blueberry tartlets.

I'll be in the kitchen pretty much non-stop for the next few weeks.

[thebaker]

I worked for 1 1/2 years at a kosher (very strict) restaurant.

even thought we did not serve meat I could not use dairy because we where also vegan (at the time)

I dislike soy milk I prefer rice milk or Coconut milk ( which I made because the rabbi did not like any thing  we bought )

I made pastry creams  and everything and people could not belive they where dairy free.

I have some great recipes for tarts and stuff... just let me know and i dig some up

thebaker, what restaurant did you work at? Was it in New York?

Plus I would love your recipe for pastry cream.

Thus far, I have settled on one dessert. I'm going to make a strawberry and vanilla infused balsamic vinegar sorbet for lunch on saturday which I will serve in martini glasses. This leaves me with the need for a "showpiece" dessert for friday night dinner, and something for sunday lunch. Saturday night will be a light meal, so I don't plan on making a dessert.

I'm considering hosting a big open house on saturday afternoon with about 8 different desserts. Last year I made assorted biscotti/mandel brodt, cookies, a flourless chocolate cake and blueberry tartlets.

I'll be in the kitchen pretty much non-stop for the next few weeks.

The restaurant was in brooklyn.

Wendy's plate

(i dont work there any more)

I will head into the closet and dig out the recipes

[beans]

As for Almond Breezes, I'm not sure if it's kosher.  I'll have to take a look at it.

I was curious too. I got an email just a moment ago from a cust service rep and she assured me Almond Breezes are kosher and are produced using dairy equipment.

I look foreward to thebaker's sharing that pastry cream recipe.

[Rachel Perlow]

If it's produced using dairy equipment then it is probably labeled O-U-D, therefore dairy and can't be used for a parve preparation.

[Rachel Perlow]

Wait, here's a site which researched the answer, "Kosher Labelling: DE (Dairy Equipment - made on the same equipment that processes products with Dairy, but cleaned before processing dairy-free products)." So, I guess it's up to you whether that's parve enough.

[bloviatrix]

Well, Almond Breezes isn't an option then.

My husband informed me last night that he doesn't want to host an open house this year. Which would mean fewer desserts needed. I'm not sure if I like this idea or not. Planning the desserts is more fun than figuring out all the other menus.

[Rachel Perlow]

Just to finalize this issue, here's further clarification from Blue Diamond's customer service: "All the cartons of Almond Breeze have the kosher mark a 'D' in a 'box' with a D.E. underneath."

[bloviatrix]

BTW, thanks for checking out whether AD had a hechsher. You saved me a walk to the store.

[PastryLady]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought eggs were considered dairy (???) How the heck could you make tarts with out butter AND eggs? The crust is a short dough (butter and eggs used) and frangi has butter and eggs. I hate to think of margarine used. Also I would skip ice cream, because think of it. You are going to have to explain all night to every person that it doesn't have eggs or milk in it. Then, you will have to describe that it has soy milk...

I deeply commend you for giving this a shot, but pastry with out the staples (sugar, butter, milk, eggs) is difficult in itself and hard to make palate appealing.

[Malawry]

Eggs are not considered dairy for kashrut purposes. It's considered "pareve." This means you can serve eggs with either meat or dairy dishes at will.

Also weird but true: fish is pareve.

[NeroW]

I don't know much about kashrut, but I asked around at school and like Malawry said, eggs are OK.

I've made frangipane with both butter and vegetable shortening for class. I agree with Suzanne that the almond paste more than makes up for any loss of butter flavor.

bloviatrix and jersey13, I will PM the pear-frangipane tart recipe.

[Rachel Perlow]

Is there any reason it can't go on RecipeGullet? I'd like to try it too.

[bloviatrix]

I've made frangipane with both butter and vegetable shortening for class.  I agree with Suzanne that the almond paste more than makes up for any loss of butter flavor.

bloviatrix and jersey13, I will PM the pear-frangipane tart recipe.

How does the frangipane with vegetable shortening taste? Did you use Crisco or some other brand. I'll be honest, I've never worked with shortening. But this could be a good time to try.

Pear and almonds sounds like a perfect combination for early fall.

Edited September 3, 2003 by bloviatrix (log)

[beans]

Is there any reason it can't go on RecipeGullet? I'd like to try it too.

Me too!

Oh, I *love* pears. And almonds! Usually I pair up the pears with hazelnuts for Fall though... This thread is sounding more and more delicious as it develops.

[nwells]

I have a recipe for coconut pastry cream that I love. It is just a susbtitution of 1 cup of coconut milk for 2 cups of 1/2 and 1/2 (not sure why the reduction of liquid). The recipe calls for 1 1/2 cups of sweetened coconut also, but I never put that in because I can't stand the texture of coconut. I would love to try this with some lychee puree, or mango, or...

[bloviatrix]

Has anyone looked at Ripe for Dessert by David Liebovitz? He's got a couple of recipes that look promising. One is a riff on a pavlova. His recipe calls for a meringue nest with poached strawberries and almonds. Also, several dishes with dates, which are a traditional Rosh Hashana food.

I'm skimmed the book at Barnes & Noble today. I plan on picking it up next week.