Improving my cooking skills (2003)

[hjshorter]

Ooooh, good point Dean. Maybe as an appetizer?

[Dave the Cook]

artichokes are going to clash with the nice sancerre I was planning on serving. I'll try to make them anyway though.

Do you know of any wine that works with artichokes?

[MatthewB]

artichokes are going to clash with the nice sancerre I was planning on serving. I'll try to make them anyway though.

Do you know of any wine that works with artichokes?

Appetizer with Cynar?

[Malawry]

One essential bit about the brown butter sauce - make sure the butter is softened before you put it in the pan.  I have learned the hard way that it's possible to burn the sauce even before all of the butter is melted.    And we make sure that the lemon, capers, and parsley are in pinch bowls before the fish goes in.

Just a note...this is contrary to my own experience. I always make it with cold butter. And I do get my pan smoking-hot. If I swirl the pan all the butter melts before any of it burns. You can always cool it down with a squirt of lemon juice. I don't like adding room-temp butter to sauces because it splits rather than staying mostly-emulsified.

Please don't move to NoVa and leave me here all alone in Montgomery County!

[Varmint]

artichokes are going to clash with the nice sancerre I was planning on serving. I'll try to make them anyway though.

Do you know of any wine that works with artichokes?

Something bone dry. As an appetizer, you could serve an ultra-dry sparkling wine.

[marie-louise]

Marie-Louise, where are you that green beans are not in season?

I'm in Oakland, California. I'm sure they are at the store, but God knows where they come from. I've been getting a CSA box delivered every week for years-they also sell to Chez Panisse-and so I am hopelessly spoiled by eating seasonal vegetables that were picked that day and only had to take a one-hour drive to get to my house. Just ignore me, they have spoiled me for life...

Edited because I just noticed I misspelled the name of where I live. Jeez!

Edited November 8, 2003 by marie-louise (log)

[Varmint]

artichokes are going to clash with the nice sancerre I was planning on serving. I'll try to make them anyway though.

Do you know of any wine that works with artichokes?

Something bone dry. As an appetizer, you could serve an ultra-dry sparkling wine.

Of course, what could we do to the artichoke to allow the G-man's Sancerre to work. If this single thistle is going to throw everything off, then the hell with it.

Mind you, I also mentioned asparagus, which ain't too easy to pair wines with either.

[guajolote]

artichokes are going to clash with the nice sancerre I was planning on serving. I'll try to make them anyway though.

Do you know of any wine that works with artichokes?

Something bone dry. As an appetizer, you could serve an ultra-dry sparkling wine.

Of course, what could we do to the artichoke to allow the G-man's Sancerre to work. If this single thistle is going to throw everything off, then the hell with it.

Mind you, I also mentioned asparagus, which ain't too easy to pair wines with either.

i said i was fine w/ the artichokes, if i can get them for a reasonable price.

marie-louise, our last farmer's market was last week and i'm now in my yearly veggie depression

I'm not surprised that Matthew has a bottle of cynar laying around

[hjshorter]

i said i was fine w/ the artichokes, if i can get them for a reasonable price.

That's where I am too.

I'll be cooking this tonight. Off to the grocery store!

[Dave the Cook]

i said i was fine w/ the artichokes, if i can get them for a reasonable price.

I saw them for $1.50 each the other day. They were spiky and purplish. I think the purple means they've been in frost, which is supposed to be good, as I recall. But spiky means they're old, and that's bad.

I'm not surprised that Matthew has a bottle of cynar laying around

Me neither.

The cheap asparagus in the markets these days is coming from Peru, if I'm not mistaken. And if that matters. I've had some and it's pretty decent. I'm just sayin', is all.

[Varmint]

What are we doing with the artichokes? I don't have J&J.

[Dave the Cook]

What are we doing with the artichokes?  I don't have J&J.

Personally, I'm waiting for Heather to get back from the market before deciding.

I'm not transcribing the artichoke prep from J&J, even for you. It's six pages.

[Varmint]

Yeah, Larousse has 3 pictures on it. OK, OK, OK, once I finish eating my Chinese leftovers, I'll check out the used bookstore. If they don't have it, time to buy it new!

[hjshorter]

What are we doing with the artichokes?  I don't have J&J.

Personally, I'm waiting for Heather to get back from the market before deciding.

I have to wait until Ian wakes up from his nap before going to the store, so it may be a couple of hours.

Shall we try a hollandaise with the chokes, or is that too much?

Edited November 7, 2003 by hjshorter (log)

[SethG]

I think tomorrow night I'll be making the "sole," or whatever near equivalent I can get tomorrow morning at the Brooklyn Grand Army Plaza farmers' market.

And I happen to have some asparagus on hand, so I'll be making that, and Jacques' rice pilaf, which also includes asparagus. But I like asparagus, so who cares? I don't think I'll be doing Jacques' method for the asparagus, though. I think I'm going to do a sauteed asparagus thing that I read about in the most recent Viana La Place book that I checked out of the library. (It's a lovely book about how to live the good life as if you were in Southern Italy, by the way.) I'll be mixing Italian and French, but we're talking about fish with butter and rice so I don't think there will be much of a clash of cuisines.

I also have no idea what I'll drink with it. But since I've already revealed my menu incompetence by including asparagus in two parts of the meal and by mixing different cuisines, I'm sure whatever I'd choose to drink would have no influence over the rest of the group!

(And by the way, I haven't had much time to post, but I have checked in here at the "G" every now and then, and I want to say that you are all very kind. If there's a nicer group of people in cyberspace, I'd like to hear of it. Maybe one day I'll actually make it to a gathering and meet some of you.)

Edit: on second thought, I think I'll leave the asparagus out of the pilaf, and include a little more of the other stuff.

Edited November 7, 2003 by SethG (log)

[hjshorter]

I'm leaving the asparagus out of the pilaf too. We're also skipping the artichokes after getting a look at the prices. Yikes.

[Varmint]

I'm leaving the asparagus out of the pilaf too.  We're also skipping the artichokes after getting a look at the prices.  Yikes.

You must have visited Whole Foods. I never buy artichokes from them.

My neighborhood independent bookstore sold their last copy of J&J 2 days ago.

[hjshorter]

I'm leaving the asparagus out of the pilaf too.  We're also skipping the artichokes after getting a look at the prices.  Yikes.

You must have visited Whole Foods. I never buy artichokes from them.

My neighborhood independent bookstore sold their last copy of J&J 2 days ago.

None of the other groceries around me even have artichokes.

Sorry about the used J&J. Better luck next time.

[Varmint]

Actually, that was for a new copy. The used bookstore didn't have it either. I can get one from half.com for 15 bucks, delivered. I just wanted it for tomorrow, when I planned on making my dish.

Have we decided on a dessert?

[Dave the Cook]

Have we decided on a dessert?

You mean it's not fried pie?

[hjshorter]

I wasn't planning on dessert.

J&J doesn't really have many dessert recipes, so we were debating a few days ago about whether to use another book for desserts.

[Varmint]

OK, why not do fried apple pie? It's simple, but it involves some special techniques. We can come up with different sauces (Calvados, anyone?) and accompaniments (whipped marscopone, cinnamon ice cream?).

Here's a copy of a post from the fried pie thread from fistfullofroux:

Fried pies (aka turnovers for our brethren in the Frozen Nawth) couldn't be simpler. Don't make yourself crazy. This is how a little company I used to work for did it.

Crust: Don't bother with solid shortening or butter for the crust. Make a basic pie dough to your liking, but use veg oil instead. No sugar, maybe a pinch of salt. Go through all of the normal steps (You will be at the "pea meal" stage) but half the water you normally would for a baked crust (more on that in a minute). Let the dough rest for at least 30 minutes. No real need to refrigerate. Using a press or a mold (found at restaraunt supply shops, they look like this.) or rolling might work, mash the mixture into a usable shape. (Yes, I know, but try one batch like this). Your pies should no be too big, and be very careful in the amount and type of filling - But you knew that. We used the same crust for savory and sweet pies.

Filling: Any filling should be pre cooked. As long as the oil is fresh, and the pies are of a reasonable size, anything that would work in a normal pie crust is fine. That includes bavarian cremes, cornstarch thickened fruit product (our biggest seller, the lemon, was simply cornstarch, water, sugar, artificial lemon extract and food coloring. Literally. They cost about 18 cents each. We sold them to the stores at 65 cents, most sold them for a buck.), a thick seafood chowder, and the pecan pie filling will work - We did it with no variation from the recipe on the Karo bottle. Although we did have a coconut one that was almost like the inside of an Almond Joy. Coconut, cornstarch, a little water, a little salt, and some sweetened condensed milk. 

The pies were fried in 350 degree oil for about 8 minutes. Let them cool, and package any way you like. I recommend wax paper bags. Any residual greasiness does not show.

The reason for half of the water in the crust is the fact that frying is a wet heat. More surface contact at higher temps will puff up the dough just a little in a very short time. Plus frying does not dry out the surface of the dough.

But to be perfectly honest, don't even stress about the dough. Find one that is economical. Butter or solid shortening would simply melt out into the fryer, lowering the smoke point and turning the oil rancid quicker. The crust needs no real embellishment. It should be tasty, but you want to be able to work with any kind of filling. If you want a sweet exterior, consider frosting them. You want a neutral tasting dough that will hold up in a bag for 4 or 5 days. A thin fancy dough would disintegrate in 48 hours. It is basically a utensil.

[Dave the Cook]

I'm in. I dunno 'bout apple, though. That artificial lemon sounds mighty tasty.

(I'm kidding.)

[marie-louise]

I saw them for $1.50 each the other day. They were spiky and purplish. I think the purple means they've been in frost, which is supposed to be good, as I recall. But spiky means they're old, and that's bad.

Yes, the purple means they've been in a frost, which is good. I think some artichokes just have more spikes than others. What you want if it all possible is ones that are very tightly closed. The ones we get at the Farmer's Markets are almost as round as a ball on top. They are more or less in season all year around here-they grow them in the foggier parts of the California coast where the weather is prettty much the same all year long-but I think they are most prolific in the spring.

You can prepare them very simply-just cut off the top quarter-inch or so to get off most of the thorns and cut off the base so it sits flat. Then just steam it upside down for a very long time, until a leaf pulls off easily, and serve w/ melted butter and lemon as a dipping sauce.

The cheap asparagus in the markets these days is coming from Peru, if I'm not mistaken. And if that matters. I've had some and it's pretty decent. I'm just sayin', is all.

Really, ignore me. I'm sure it is quite good. I have access to more fresh produce than most of the country, for which I am grateful on a daily basis. I am enjoying it for all of you and sometimes my enthusiasm gets the better of me. Do you know about roasting asparagus? It is very, very good that way, and gives you the added benefit of not having to boil it last minute. I don't know about anyone else, but trying to get the sauce made and the fish properly cooked is about my limit of things I can watch at once. Anyway, peel the asparagus (see page 186 of J&J), coat w/ a little olive oil and salt, then cook single layer on a cookie sheet in a 400-450 degree oven until done-about 10 or 15 minutes. They won't look pretty-they should be sort of limp and browned in spots-but the flavor intensifies and it tastes great.

[Varmint]

I'm taking a major detour, except for the sole. Sorry, folks. Yes, the artichokes looked shitty and were 2 bucks a pop. Not worth it. It's going to be spinach instead -- probably just sauteed with EVOO and garlic. Nothing that exceiting. I'm also doing a duxelle stuffed potato rather than a pilaf -- wanted something earthy.

For dessert, apple fried pies with homemade cinnamon egg nog ice cream. Not sure if I need a sauce -- probably not.