Improving my cooking skills (2003)

[MatthewB]

Thanks zilla & Malawry. This helps a lot.

Round two with creme brulee this evening!

[MatthewB]

adoxograph, great post. I have to do that gratin & I hope tonight's creme brulee look as lovely as yours.

Speaking of the creme brulee, my SO just reminded me to ask about the orange zest. Recipe for 8 says, "zest of a large orange." Since I did 4, I did half an orange. But the creme brulee is *way* too orangey. I grated with a Microplane grater. Should I have done just one (or more larger) piece(s) for the zest?

Anyone else going to talk about their dinner or did I screw up our rhythm by waiting till last night?

[hjshorter]

The microplane might have made a difference. I am going to do the creme brulee this week, so I will try peeling and julienning the peel and see how that tastes.

Dave, how did your meal turn out? Seth, is your wife in labor?

And what's next? Some thing less time consuming, that's for sure!

I want to do the Seafood soup (their riff on a Bouillabaisse), sole muniere, a souffle, and some of the vegetable preparations. And Eggs Benedict. I love eggs benedict and have never made it at home. I can't even remember the last time I made Hollandaise sauce.

[MatthewB]

Dinner tonight:

Warmed beef stew

Mashed potatoes (made tonight, not leftovers)

Roasted swiss chard w/ grapes (Damn, Malawry, you rock. Great recipe!)

Wine, of course

Creme brulee, round two, coming up in a bit.

The stew was even better this evening.

[marie-louise]

Better late than never-am planning to make tomorrow (my day off.) I even got chard & potatoes in my CSA delivery!

Now what exactly is so time consuming; maybe I should make some of it tonight?

[SethG]

Okay, so we had a baby last night. His name is Nate. Eight pounds, three ounces. 21 inches. We're very happy, and tired.

I've just arrived at my office, at 9:30 p.m., hoping to straighten up a bunch of things right now so I won't need to return until next week.

But I just had to check in on everybody's Beef Bourguignon.

I loved the creme brulee. My torch technique needs work-- I wish I'd seen Rochelle's advice before I tried it myself. I had a few black spots, and the top wasn't really smooth. Still tasted good, though. And the custard was fab. I used a rather large orange, and I thought the orange zest was an inspired addition. My wife and MIL did too. I don't have a bunch of little ramekins, so I poured the whole recipe into a six cup souffle mold. I cooked it maybe five minutes longer than called for by the recipe, and cooled it a little longer too. Came out great. I think oranges are so variable, the two Jakes should have been more specific about the type and size/weight of the orange. (Or they could have provided a measurement (two Tbsps, say) for the zest.)

The beef was also a total winner. What I thought was the biggest inconvenience was the cooking time-- when I've done prior stews like this, I've been instructed to leave the thing in the oven for three or four hours. (This is what Julia says to do in MtAoFC for Beef Bourg, by the way.) A long cooking time gives you time to do lots of other things. Here, we were told to cook until tender, not falling apart. I took mine out of the oven after one hour, forty-five minutes. And I think it was plenty tender, but I didn't have the kind of time I thought I'd have to go across the street to the playground with my daughter or whatever. It felt like the dish sucked up my whole day. Why do you think Julia has reduced the cooking time? Has the meat changed in the last 40 years? She's also dropped the skimming she used to require after the cooking, which I'm glad about.

After we ate the leftover beef the next day, there was still about a cup and a half of sauce left over. I brought it back to a simmer, strained it, ran it through a defatting pitcher and poured it into an ice tray. I now have several cubes of strained Bouguignon sauce that I can defrost and use when I make steak. Do you guys think this will work?

I'd like to think of other ways to get the essence of great Beef B without the hassle. I'm sure those lardons of salt pork add a ton of flavor, but there's gotta be an easier way. And the separate cooking of the onions and the 'shrooms is totally irritating. Is it really necessary? They tasted great the next day, after sitting in the sauce for 24 hours.

MatthewB, I saw that CIA at home book yesterday while my wife and I were pacing around a bookstore waiting for her labor to get serious. I was going to suggest in Suzanne F's Professional Chef thread that she review it for us! Did you take a good look through it?

Okay, sorry for rambling. Gotta go.

Edited November 5, 2003 by SethG (log)

[maggiethecat]

Now what exactly is so time consuming; maybe I should make some of it tonight?

As a fascinated bystander, I've heard this from most of you. I'm a BB vet, and I don't remember the time factor as being too onerous, except for peeling all those damn onions. Was it making the lardons, maybe?

Seth! Congratulations Papa. Whatever labour folks suffered preparing the BB was nothing to Mrs. Seth's labours. But you got something better than a good dinner---you have a new child. Please plant a kiss on Jake's forehead from his Auntie Maggie.

[SethG]

Thanks, Maggie!

I think it comes as a surprise that the recipe becomes time-consuming, because if you read it it doesn't look that bad. But the lardons are done as their own step; then you brown in batches; then you assemble all the aromatics, which takes longer than you think it will... somewhere in the middle you start glancing at the clock and you wonder why this has to be so complicated, even though it's simple.

I've made Julia's beer braise a bunch of times, and I've put that in the oven in less than half an hour. And that's the main reason I've made it several times. No lardons to deal with, no croutons or any of that jive. Just onions, beef, beer, and maybe a couple other things. And it is good shit. But I think the big Beefy B was even better. So I dunno. I guess the lardon barrier just has to be crossed.

I also meant to say before that the mashed potatoes were good with the Bourguignon sauce. And I am not a mashed potato fan, so I never make them. But wasn't Julia's recipe kind of restrained? Just a little butter and milk. I'm sure each of you has a dozen richer recipes for creamy, delicious mashed potatoes. What happened here? We're talking about Julia Child, dark lady of the Butterdome. Why so cheap with the butter here?

[Dave the Cook]

First: congratulations to Seth, Mrs. Seth and Nate. If nothing else, we know the little guy will eat well.

Second: Adoxograph, maybe we're channeling. Saturday night (the night before BB), I made a gratin of zucchini, tomatoes and onions. I've been salting zukes for a while -- it's a Southern staple, after all -- and I'm always surprised not just at how much water comes out of them, but how much the taste is improved by concentrating the flavors in this way.

Third: I love BB. But the consensus chez Dave was, "not worth the time," especially since Dad has a standard Beef Stew with Wine that demands less of a commitment from the cook -- and the diners chez Dave are not impressed with garniture. At all. Napkins are considered uppity.

I think the culprit is the episodic nature of the recipe -- and yes, it sneaks up on you. Upon reading, it seems like a series of simple steps -- and Julia's suggestion to break it up over several nights, though I didn't follow it, somehow made it seem even simpler. In fact, it is a series of simple steps. Nothing is hard. I guess it seems really time consuming because, as Seth alluded, you can neverstep out of the kitchen for very long. I thought the lardons were trivial -- did I miss something?

Oops. I didn't follow Julia's recipe for mashers. Truth to tell, it didn't occur to me to look. Since my dear departed mother-on-law (Pennsylvania Dutch to the end) taught me to make them twenty-mumble years ago, I haven't varied from: two pounds Russets, four tablespoons butter, one cup hot whole milk. More butter at the end, as the occasion demands. This is a good, basic recipe that happens to coincide with the one in Cooks Illustrated.

Creme Brulee: I agree regarding the amount of zest. A specified quantity would give you the ability to reproduce, as exactly as the oranges allow, the same recipe, time after time. I didn't measure it before adding, and that's my bad. Rochelle's CB method does not suck. I've always flattened out the flame, and swept over the dish, but that heats up the ceramic too much. Along with the skimming lesson she gave me in Raleigh, that's two invaluable techniques. (Thanks, R.)

Seth: strained sauce a la BB -- absolutely, though I would have reduced it a bit further before freezing. Still, you're going to like it, and that's great thinking.

As for the beef stock, I don't think real stock made a whole lot of difference. But if we hang around together for long, you guys are going to run into Dave's Rule of Threes:

• 1. I needed stock for the larder. Uh oh.
  
• 2. This recipe called for stock. The urgency intensifies.
  
• 3. I go to the store, and they have neck slices and oxtails, my cuts of choice for stock, on sale.
  

In my book, when three things coincide, the universe is trying to tell you something. In this case, it was, "Dave, make beef stock."

I'm up for anything next time. Heather's suggestions are all fine, as is the duck thing that was coming to a simmer last week.

And I want to hear marie-louise's report.

[MatthewB]

Again, many congrats to Mr. & Mrs. Seth & Nate!!!

Thanks to the tips & instructions here, the creme brulee crust turned out much better. I need to keep working on this though. I've now an excuse to make creme brulee somewhat frequently!

As noted, the beef stew wasn't difficult. Just time-consuming but I enjoyed putzing around in the kitchen. Though a different recipe might provide less work & just as good results.

I think I'll reduce the leftover stew sauce tonight after I finish off the last serving.

So what's next?

[hjshorter]

I think it comes as a surprise that the recipe becomes time-consuming, because if you read it it doesn't look that bad.  But the lardons are done as their own step; then you brown in batches; then you assemble all the aromatics, which takes longer than you think it will... somewhere in the middle you start glancing at the clock and you wonder why this has to be so complicated, even though it's simple.

I was thinking it would be a lot less time consuming than it was. And I'm with you about the mashed potatoes.

Congratulations on Nate's arrival!

[hjshorter]

Executive decison: Sole Muniere. My father in law is in town this weekend. I will be using up most of my energy gritting my teeth, so a relative easier meal will be in order.

With the sole...rice pilaf? And a veg. Father-in-law is an Atkins adherent, so perhaps carrots?

[MatthewB]

If we do this, are folks going to be using imported Dover sole?

[hjshorter]

If we do this, are folks going to be using imported Dover sole?

Nope. I will find some other nice mild fish with a less inflated price tag.

[MatthewB]

If we do this, are folks going to be using imported Dover sole?

Nope. I will find some other nice mild fish with a less inflated price tag.

Seriously, like what? (I'm in Grand Rapids, Michigan & I'm fairly limited in decent fish choices.)

[fresco]

Sorry for butting in here, but don't you have some pretty good local fish in Michigan? Walleye fillets would probably make a good substitute if they're available.

[Varmint]

Sorry for butting in here, but don't you have some pretty good local fish in Michigan? Walleye fillets would probably make a good substitute if they're available.

Walleye. Tee hee. I can't mention that fish enough on these boards.

Matthew, you could use that ubiquitous Great Lakes fish: "whitefish".

[MatthewB]

Perhaps I'm having trouble getting my head around not using imported Dover sole.

I love that stuff.

I'll go have a drink & beat my head against the wall, in no particular order.

Perhaps that will get me readjusted on this issue.

[fresco]

Walleye are usually called pickeral hereabouts.

[hjshorter]

Matthew, you can use Dover sole if you like. I will probably buy grey sole or lemon sole, which aren't really sole, but are pleasant flat white fish nonetheless.

What sides? Rice pilaf and ? I want to try the baked tomatoes.

[MatthewB]

Matthew, you can use Dover sole if you like.  I will probably buy grey sole or lemon sole, which aren't really sole, but are pleasant flat white fish nonetheless.

What sides?  Rice pilaf and ?  I want to try the baked tomatoes.

Rice pilaf & baked tomatoes sound great.

As far as the fish, it's not what I want, it's what I can get. Yes, the fish.

[SethG]

Thanks for all of your kind words of congratulations. I think my wife would be very amused to hear herself called "Mrs. Seth." Her name is Robin, and she did not take my last name when we got married (a decision I support). But you guys can call her "Ms. Seth." I'll tell her we compromised.

I still crave some duck, but I'll do fish. I think something quick (and easily obtainable nearby) like fish is more likely to get cooked by me this weekend than something like duck.

[snowangel]

I still crave some duck, but I'll do fish.  I think something quick (and easily obtainable nearby) like fish is more likely to get cooked by me this weekend than something like duck.

Paul's going hunting this weekend, so something quick is better for me, too.

Add my congrats to the list. A new baby .

[Rachel Perlow]

FYI -- Autodidact.

Thanks.

[marie-louise]

First of all, congratulations, Seth! I love that you still took the time to write up your cooking experience. A true EGulleteer.

Once again, I only sort of followed the recipe-I have a hard time not tinkering w/ things, even though it IS Julia or Jacques. Many years ago I used to make a slightly different version of Beef Bourguignon. Then I made my stew with lots of vegetables in it, until I decided that I really didn't like the taste of vegetables that had been cooking in stew for a while. The last few years I've settled on Bruce Aidell's California Beef Stew w/ Zinfandel (in The Complete Meat Cookbook), served w/ Roasted Vegetables on the side. The only changes I make to BA's recipe is to delete the coppa and cut down on the salt-I find his recipes WAY too salty for my taste. Julia's and Bruce's recipes are fairly similar is you look at them side by side, so I thought it would be kind of fun to compare and contrast them to see if I could tweak my current recipe a little further, and also create a Bouef Bourguignon recipe that didn't take too long. Based on your feedback, I was curious to see where I could take a few shortcuts so the recipe wasn't so time consuming, so I set off to experiment with that in mind.

I cut the recipe in half-it still serves four-so that helped shorten the prep time.

I couldn't find salt pork at my local market, so I substituted pancetta. That's what's in BA recipe. I buy pancetta a pound at a time, sliced into 1/4-lb. slices. I seal it in a Food-Sealer, and it keeps fresh for months. I sauteed it in olive oil until crisp, then removed the pancetta and sauteed the meat in the pancetta oil/olive oil mixture. So that skipped the blanching step while adding a little extra, albeit Italian, flavor to the stew. Bruce flours the meat before sauteing (1/2 cup for 4 lb. meat.) So I did that. I have no idea the pros and cons of flouring or not.

I also took a look at an old Fine Cooking Magazine article by Madeleine Kamman, which just confused me-her recipe is completely different. (one main way is that the meat marinates in reduced wine overnight, before being browned.) One step that seemed kind of odd to me in Julia's recipe was wrapping all the aromatics in cheesecloth. I figured, who wants to deal with that boiling hot, dripping bag at the end of the cooking time. Madeleine takes out the meat, then puts her sauce through a chinois at the end. That looked like a better idea, so I just threw all the chopped vegetables in the stew loose. Well, what I didn't notice until I was ready to strain my sauce was that Madeleine reserves her lardoons until the end; if I strained my stew, I would also strain out all those wonderful bits of pancetta. So I decided to leave the bits of carrots and tomato in the sauce. The diced carrots were distracting and I'm not sure they added that much to the flavor of the stew. I think I might leave them out next time.

I did the onions as instructed. My old recipe called for frozen pearl onions, thawed and sauteed along with the mushrooms. I actually think that frozen pearl onions have more flavor, and those onion steps were a PITA. I increased the amount of mushrooms because I'd bought too many. I liked it with more mushrooms-I'd do that again. (For a full recipe, I'd use about a pound.) And I'd use frozen pearl onions.

I used some cheap California Pinot (Montpellior) and my own meat broth that I keep in the freezer for risotto. The wine was okay-not too complex- but next time I'd try to get some inexpensive French wine instead. The best tip I gleaned from this cooking exercise? Add a spash of wine right at the end. I tasted the sauce before, and again after. That makes a REAL difference-it does noticably brighten the taste-I am going to start doing that with all my braises. Julia says to use some of the wine you're drinking for this step, but we were drinking a bottle of Williams Selyem-no way I was tossing some of THAT in the stew, so I used more of the cheap stuff.

I made the Buerre Manie, but I'm not sure I liked the thicker sauce. I might skip that step too.

I did like what I made. Stew w/ Zindandel is great, but beef cooked in Pinot is just as good-just a little more refined and subtle. I really liked the sauteed mushrooms and onions added at the end. I am definitely adding this to my personal cookbook.

Per Madeleine's recipe, I served this with Spaetzle. I therefore did not have any problems w/ extra sauce-the spaetzle soaked it up nicely. For the same reason, I think I will serve the leftovers with Egg Noodles. I skipped the chard; somehow I think it would have been distracting on the side of the plate with the Spaetzle, although with Mashed Potatoes I think it would have worked well.

Looking forward to making fish with you-I'll probably do it Monday. I've made this recipe before, although I usually just buy small fillets of what is labeled sole in California. Depending on how much time I have, maybe I'll get adventuresome and try following the instructions for fileting a whole fish-it looks sort of fun.