Improving my cooking skills (2003)

[Dave the Cook]

I'll be doubling the chicken, since it turns out we have seven for dinner. Two problems: I won't be able to start until about 8:15, and I forgot the chives. One advantage: I'll have my brother-in-law as a sous. We used to cook together a lot (did I ever tell you that we invented Iron Chef back in 1978?), but I'd bet he hasn't hacked poultry in 15 years.

No estimate, however, on how long it's been since he choked a chicken.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Dave the Cook]

Update and gross revision: Mrs. Dave just brought me a themometer that read 100.8. We'll be at home after all. So dinner's back to three, though there might be an abstention even from that.

And I have an extra chicken. Any suggestions for this windfall?

[hjshorter]

Due to small circumstances beyond my control, the menu has been put off until tomorrow night. I hope everyone has good luck with it tonight.

[Dave the Cook]

Between the chicken and the potatoes, that's a lot of garlic for a French meal!

Seth, you say that like it's a bad thing.

The gratin is in the oven. All the mise for the main dish is done. I'm going to wait until the gratin has about 20 minutes to go (in my experience, a gratin can sit for a while -- in fact, usually ought to), then start to cook the chicken. While it simmers, I'll wash the lettuce and make the dressing.

Sorry, Heather. I hope everything's OK.

edit: small circumstances? Emma or Ian?

Edited October 26, 2003 by Dave the Cook (log)

[maggiethecat]

This is an exciting, almost voyeuristic experience. Heather, hope everthings's OK. My best to Mrs. Dave.

And keep us posted! (We're slapping some chicken/mushroom/cheddar/onion sandwiches on the panini grill. Bo -ring!)

[Dave the Cook]

Done. Like Seth, I'll reserve comment, except to say that it was delicious.

I do have some technical issues, and I look forward to discussing them when everyone is ready.

[SethG]

Heather, assuming your issues are small enough that you'll be back at the stove tomorrow (and I hope they are), I'd advise you to replace those russets. I made the same mistake and I had a very mushy gratin.

[Dave the Cook]

Heather, assuming your issues are small enough that you'll be back at the stove tomorrow (and I hope they are), I'd advise you to replace those russets.  I made the same mistake and I had a very mushy gratin.

I used Yukon Golds. They worked well, though a red potato -- something with a little more moisture, anyway -- would have been at least as good, if not better.

[hjshorter]

Sorry, Heather. I hope everything's OK.

edit: small circumstances? Emma or Ian?

Both, actually. And they were both up all night.

Thanks for the tip, Seth. I will get some yukon golds today.

[MatthewB]

Yesterday, my day went sideways. So, I'm on for tonight.

I think I'll do the gratin this morning & warm it up at the last minute.

[hjshorter]

Hmph. Well, it was delicious, but I have a few issues to talk about in the morning.

[Dave the Cook]

Man, you eat early. Or was this a good old Sunday afternoon dinner?

[hjshorter]

We probably do eat earlier than most folks. We've got two little early birds, so we're up by 6 everyday, and asleep around 10. Plus their tummies are still an hour ahead of the clock right now.

[MatthewB]

Dinner's over. (Apple torte for dessert coming up.)

I'm ready to discuss in the morning.

[SethG]

Erin?

[silence]

Did you make the menu?

[Tumbleweeds roll by.]

I guess I can wait until morning.

[marie-louise]

I made the potatoes a few days ago. Are we going to be posting on this thread or starting a new one for each menu?

[hjshorter]

I vote for keeping the same thread.

A few thoughts...

We need to sharpen our chef's knife, but poultry hacking was easy.

The chicken was delicious and came out perfectly. However, it made a lot of sauce, and it was too winey, for lack of a better word. Maybe "raw" is what I'm looking for. I thickened what was in the pan with a tablespoon of butter and that rounded out the flavors. The chives didn't add much. If I do this again I may add a fresh herb like tarragon.

The potatoes were a disaster. I used red potatoes and followed the recipe to the letter. Instead of a crusty gratin, we had cooked potato slices swimming in a sea of gelatinous stock. The best I can describe it is that instead of the potatoes absorbing the stock, the released all of their starch into the liquid. Tasty, but not attractive and not what I was looking for to go with the chicken because now we had two saucy runny things on our plate.

The green salad was delicious. I had mine after, on the plate with all of the leftover sauce.

Here's the finished chicken:

Edited October 27, 2003 by hjshorter (log)

[MatthewB]

Are we going to be posting on this thread or starting a new one for each menu?

I, for one, would prefer to hunker down here.

[MatthewB]

Cutting up my first chicken was quite easy. (I did have assistance from FarmGirl©, who watched & repeated the mantra, "Find the joint." ) However, I did unintentionally debone one breast.

My experience with the chicken dish was much the same as Heather's: too much sauce. Yet the chicken was very good.

I used Yukon Golds for the potato dish. It was fine, if just a slight tad soupy.

The salad was great & I enjoyed learning from Jacque as to the techinque for cleaning Boston lettuce!

[hjshorter]

However, I did unintentionally debone one breast.

I thought they were supposed to be deboned. Maybe I read the directions wrong.

I used Yukon Golds for the potato dish.  It was fine, if just a slight tad soupy.

OK, good, I wasn't the only one! I want to try the other recipe too.

Another menu? Do we want to try this weekly or biweekly?

[marie-louise]

I didn't care much for the potatoes; I wouldn't make them again. I used Yukon Gold potatoes and some of my homemade chicken broth. I do believe they came out as they were supposed to: the potatoes absorbed all the stock and the top got crusty and golden brown. They cooked faster than expected (I used a metal Le Creuset gratin dish.) I also like the technique of cooking the potatoes and the liquid together in a pan before putting them in the oven; Laurie Colwin has a recipe for that technique in her book, and it does shorten the cooking time considerably.

I know what others are saying about the texture-something about the interaction of potato starch and stock did not appeal. That's why I didn't like the dish. I like my scalloped potatoes with all milk-not cream, that's too greasy for my taste-or a mixture of half stock and half cream. I wanted to like these; I thought the idea of lighter, stock-infused potatoes sounded like a great idea. In the future, if I wanted a non-milk version, I'd make a potato galette.

I didn't make the chicken (I served mine w/ a grilled chicken breast and some baby braising greens.)

It was fun cooking with you-even though I did mine last Wednesday and only did one of three recipes So what's next?

[MatthewB]

I'd have to go back & look as to boning the breasts. (I like bone-in breasts, so perhaps I was tainted. On an aside, I wish I had half a dozen or so chickens last night. It's a bit hard to learn a technique like that with only one chicken.)

General question: Any advantage to poultry shears?

Potato gratins: I fiddled with gratin dauphinois last winter. Steingarten's--read: Villas'--recipe was by far the best.

Dave, Seth, and/or others going to weigh in on their experiences with the current menu?

And, as far as another menu, I'm up for this weekend. (Probably will cook it on Sunday night.) I'm focused on techniques. Would someone like to make a suggestion from J & J?

[SethG]

1. Potatoes

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who disliked the potato dish. I'm afraid I'm a potato ignoramus-- I knew that Yukon golds are for boiling and Idahos are for baking, but russets? They looked more like boilers than bakers to me. but putting the mushiness aside, I thought the dish had a harsh and unpleasantly garlicky flavor (and I love garlic). Did anyone else have this experience? I note that I sliced the garlic, as instructed. What did you all do? I find that recipes often tell you to slice onions and garlic when they really want you to dice, chop, or mince instead. Do you guys think the slicing affected my results? (I sliced very thin, like the mobsters in prison in Goodfellas.)

I also wonder if the soaking time for the whole potatoes could have increased/decreased the mushiness factor. I understand that putting the whole potatoes into a bowl of cold water leaches starch out of them, but that's as far as my understanding goes. Mine were in the water for maybe 10 minutes.

I don't think I'd make this dish again, but it did make me want to try other gratins, with milk or cheese or whatever.

2. Chicken

I thought the chicken dish was very tasty, although like Heather I thought the sauce was rather alcoholic. I wondered afterward if this quality would have changed if we'd cooked it not completely covered but instead with the cover somewhat askew, as Marcella Hazan always has you do it.

The educational part of the dish for me was in the sauteeing, not the chopping. I wasn't really interested in Jacques' cutting instructions, although I did look at the book to make sure I'd get the same pieces he wants us to get. I too thought he wanted the breasts removed completely from the bone, which I think Julia also advises in Mastering the Art..., to insure the breast cooks evenly. Did you guys cut off the tips of the drumsticks? Does anyone besides me think this is just stupid? I think it improves neither the look nor the taste of the chicken, so why do it? I also didn't like way he had us cut the wings off at the joint. When I cut a chicken into serving pieces, I usually cut the wings so that there's a small chunk of the breast meat taken on a diagonal across the joint-- this way you get four pieces with breast meat (six if you cut the breasts in half). I didn't make this up-- I thought it was the trad French thing to do.

But I was amazed at the short cooking time, especially for the breasts. The other fricassees I've cooked a lot, from Marcella and Julia, require a much longer cooking time (with all the pieces cooked together for the same length of time), and I now wonder if this amount of time is, like, twice as long as it needs to be. I had to throw the breasts back in the pan for a couple minutes at the end-- I cut them in half to serve them and found them to be just a touch underdone. But that's okay, right? In the end, I had breasts that were done just enough, which is way better than overdone.

My last question about the chicken was why? Why do we sautee/fricassee this way, when we can roast? Roasting produces a superior texture in the meat and crispy, tasty skin. The only advantage produced by the fricassee that I can think of is the sauce, which I'm guessing has a richer, more stock-like quality than a quick sauce made from deglazing a roasting pan would have. And the whole chicken gets infused with the flavor of the sauce, as well, which you could never do with a roasted bird. What do you guys think? Is that flavor difference worth the other disadvantages?

[SethG]

General question:  Any advantage to poultry shears?

Matthew, I always use shears to cut up chickens. I find it much easier to split the breastbone with shears than with a knife, although maybe that's because I'm not a good sharpener. You gotta be careful with shears, though, or you could snip off a bunch of meat from a thigh or breast unintentionally.

[fresco]

General question:  Any advantage to poultry shears?

Matthew, I always use shears to cut up chickens. I find it much easier to split the breastbone with shears than with a knife, although maybe that's because I'm not a good sharpener. You gotta be careful with shears, though, or you could snip off a bunch of meat from a thigh or breast unintentionally.

Does anyone else use a Chinese cleaver? I can take apart a chicken, reasonably neatly, in under two minutes with one. You can even use them for boning breasts, and they're handy for pounding breasts for cutlets, too. Plus, they cost next to nothing.