oysters only in "r" months

[tommy]

c'mon. with oysters coming from all parts of the world, i can't imagine there's much truth to this "guideline".

any thoughts?

should oysters be avoided in winter or any other time more than others?

Edited August 26, 2003 by tommy (log)

[guajolote]

I used to go with that advice but no longer. If you have a fish monger / restaurant that you really trust go ahead and get the oysters. I had the best oysters of my entire life (Kumamoto) three weeks ago.

[fresco]

Don't know about oysters, but I tend to follow the "r" rule for mussels, because they can be lean and stringy in the summer.

[tommy]

I had the best oysters of my entire life (Kumamoto) three weeks ago.

they're like freakin' candy.

knowing that the restaurant is getting good product is one thing, but from what i understand, it goes beyond that. seems that this rule suggests that oysters aren't very good in those non-r months, regardless of you fish guy or the restaurant.

[Lesley C]

I just returned from Cancale Brittany where I tasted some terrific Belons in the month of July. The only problem with oysters in summer months is that they get "laiteuse" (milky) on the top of the flesh when they are in reproductive mode. But hey, apparently some people like them that way. The oyster producers in Cancale are working on eliminating this altogether.

The bit about not eating oysters in summer months had a lot to do with transporting oysters in hot weather from the coast to Paris. This isn't an issue anymore.

[tommy]

The only problem with oysters in summer months is that they get "laiteuse" (milky) on the top of the flesh when they are in reproductive mode.

i'll buy that.

but are all oysters in reproductive mode all over the US/Canada during those months?

[MatthewB]

but are all oysters in reproductive mode all over the US/Canada during those months?

Here's something on that . . .

Romantic sponges they say do it

Oysters down in Oyster Bay do it

Cold Cape Cod clams, 'gainst their wish, do it

Even lazy jellyfish do it

Electric eels, I might add, do it

Though it shocks 'em I know

Why ask if shad do it

Waiter, bring me shadroe

In shallow shoals, English soles do it

Goldfish in the privacy of bowls do it

[fifi]

I am not an oyster lover but I wouldn't eat a Gulf Coast oyster in the non-r months on a bet. The bays where the oyster reefs are are like a freakin' petri dish. We are talking water temperatures of 85 or more. That, plus those are the reproductive months for that type of oyster and the texture and taste is not its best.

[Nick]

The "r" month is something that's been around Maine ever since the white people came - and they learned it from the Indians. We've always used it for clams, but in probably applies to oysters and mussels as well.

The reason for this is "red tide" which happens in the summer months and can leave people in hard shape, or maybe dead, if they eat shellfish that have been infected. I think the official name for this is, "paralytic shellfish poisoning."

At least in Maine, the applicable state agencies are on top of this and when red tide hits in a particular part of the coast, the flats are closed. I can remember when the whole coast was closed from Eastport to Kittery - or at least most of the Maine coast.

Also, at least in Maine, the gov't agencies are now so on top of this that you can safely eat shellfish all summer. Though.... some of us still hold off until September rolls around.

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about this, mussels are the first to get hit by red tide.

Edited August 26, 2003 by Nick (log)

[Dave the Cook]

Don't we get oysters from the Southern hemishpere, and wouldn't their reproductive cycles be the opposite of Northern inhabitants? (The oysters, I mean.)

I second fifi. Gulf oysters in August are scary.

[Jeff T]

I've been getting Winterpoints and Pemaquids out of Maine the last month or so and they have been delicious, especially the Pemaquids, very salty and lots of liquid.

[ballast_regime]

Here's the rule of thumb: Eat oysters whenever you can if you trust the establishment. Red tide hasn't been a concern in the Gulf Coast for quite some time, and farming methods have improved so much that oysters are exceptional year-round (in terms of whether they'll make you hurl or not). The "R-month" adage is a bit archaic, and most oyster gulpers and farmers ignore it altogether. (As a side note, many oysters in restaurants along the Gulf Coast do not actually come from the Gulf, and tend to be smallish and not as not as plump as their East Coast cousins.)

Much peace,

Ian

ballast/regime

Edited August 26, 2003 by ballast_regime (log)

[fifi]

Here's the rule of thumb:  Eat oysters whenever you can if you trust the establishment.  Red tide hasn't been a concern in the Gulf Coast for quite some time, and farming methods have improved so much that oysters are exceptional year-round (in terms of whether they'll make you hurl or not).  The "R-month" adage is a bit archaic, and most oyster gulpers and farmers ignore it altogether.  (As a side note, many oysters in restaurants along the Gulf Coast do not actually come from the Gulf, and tend to be smallish and not as not as plump as their East Coast cousins.)

Much peace,

Ian

ballast/regime

I beg to differ. In the past few years there have been some ferocious red tides, particularly down the coast towards Corpus Christi. I fly over the Gulf along the Louisiana coast fairly often. It is not unusual to see the patches of red tide off shore. They close the bays to oystering etc. if the red tide drifts toward shore. Also... Food poisoning outbreaks and hepatitis cases ramp up. Announcements and warnings are fairly common on the local news shows. Farmed or not... NO ONE should eat oysters that come out of 85 degree water. And it has nothing to do with "pollution". At those temperatures, naturally occurring buggles (like some of the vibrios or whatever they are called now) increase their population and the oysters are filter feeders, concentrating whatever is in the water.

[fresco]

Here's the rule of thumb:  Eat oysters whenever you can if you trust the establishment.  Red tide hasn't been a concern in the Gulf Coast for quite some time, and farming methods have improved so much that oysters are exceptional year-round (in terms of whether they'll make you hurl or not).  The "R-month" adage is a bit archaic, and most oyster gulpers and farmers ignore it altogether.  (As a side note, many oysters in restaurants along the Gulf Coast do not actually come from the Gulf, and tend to be smallish and not as not as plump as their East Coast cousins.)

Much peace,

Ian

ballast/regime

I beg to differ. In the past few years there have been some ferocious red tides, particularly down the coast towards Corpus Christi. I fly over the Gulf along the Louisiana coast fairly often. It is not unusual to see the patches of red tide off shore. They close the bays to oystering etc. if the red tide drifts toward shore. Also... Food poisoning outbreaks and hepatitis cases ramp up. Announcements and warnings are fairly common on the local news shows. Farmed or not... NO ONE should eat oysters that come out of 85 degree water. And it has nothing to do with "pollution". At those temperatures, naturally occurring buggles (like some of the vibrios or whatever they are called now) increase their population and the oysters are filter feeders, concentrating whatever is in the water.

The only time I can recall red tide being an issue (and it was a bad one) was several years ago when a Toronto family and friends ate wild mussels. Everyone got very sick and think one elderly gent died.

You are much safer with the farmed variety, because regulations are very stringent and any hint of red tide (or pollution) in an area means no harvesting until the all clear is given. (This applies to Canada's east coast, at any rate.)

[fifi]

The fish and wildlife folks here in the Gulf do a good job of policing the red tide outbreaks. We haven't had many problems down here. A couple of years ago, we had some problems with folks getting into respiratory trouble on the beach. The stuff was in the salt spray in the air.

The buggles sure get a lot of folks, though.

[ballast_regime]

Red tide did hurt oyster farming in Texas recently, if I remember correctly, during September 2000. More importantly, most oyster farming along the Texas coastline and elsewhere in the Gulf doesn't open up until November, which makes warmer waters a non-threat to oyster beds. In order to prevent infected oysters from reaching the market during red tides, government health officials (like the Texas Department of Health) take water and meat samples to determine whether or not oysters are safe for consumption. As the TDH says, "Oysters you buy from a restaurant or certified shellfish dealer should not have red tide toxins in them because of the TDH’s monitoring program."

For current red tide information in Texas, call 1-800-792-1112. Press 4 for "fishing," then 9 for "red tide information." To find out about shellfish closures, call 1-800-685-0361.

Btw, most red tides are harmless. Of the 60 species of phytoplankton that cause red tide, only four or five are harmful.

New England is just as likely to get a red tide as the Gulf, but most of the hazards of eating oysters during summer are a non-issue because of the large regulatory mechanisms in place that prevent diners from sucking red tide from a half-shell, which gets back to my recommendation: Disregard the "R-month" adage.

Edited August 26, 2003 by ballast_regime (log)

[tommy]

NO ONE should eat oysters that come out of 85 degree water.

i suppose the question is: is any reputable restaurant (which is the only place i'd eat oysters), going to serve oysters that come out of 85 degree water?

[marie-louise]

Oysters are sold year-round at Hog Island Oyster Company on Tomales Bay in California. This doesn't address red tide, but does discuss federal water purity standards in general. They do occasionally close this place if the area gets a certain aqmount of rain because of the runoff from nearby dairy farms into the Bay; otherwise, they are open year round.

PS Anyone who is coming to northern California and wants to take a little drive up the coast should definitely stop in here. They are so cheap, too.

[fifi]

NO ONE should eat oysters that come out of 85 degree water.

i suppose the question is: is any reputable restaurant (which is the only place i'd eat oysters), going to serve oysters that come out of 85 degree water?

Apparantly some of our "reputable" restaurants have gotten a lot of people sick. There is always an investigation and most of the time the oysters are traced to Alabama or Louisana. It doesn't happen as often as it used to in the past three or four years but it still happens. I have heard that some restaurants are warning against raw oysters but will serve them if you insist. I haven't seen that so it may be an urban myth. We had some pretty high profile cases so maybe they are getting tougher on the certification.

[tommy]

Apparantly some of our "reputable" restaurants have gotten a lot of people sick. There is always an investigation and most of the time the oysters are traced to Alabama or Louisana.

i don't think the oyster bar in NYC is going to stop serving oysters during the summer. that's ridiculous. or rather, it's ridiculous to suggest that they're putting their customers at an unreasonable risk.

Edited August 27, 2003 by tommy (log)

[essvee]

I hate that milky spawning taste enough that I won't eat oysters in the summer. Ugh.

[fresco]

Apparantly some of our "reputable" restaurants have gotten a lot of people sick. There is always an investigation and most of the time the oysters are traced to Alabama or Louisana.

i don't think the oyster bar in NYC is going to stop serving oysters during the summer. that's ridiculous.

The red tide discussion may be a bit of a red herring. Unless I am far wrong, the injunction against eating oysters, clams and mussels in non-R months began because that's when they spawn, at least in colder waters, and are therefore less succulent, not because they are more dangerous.

[fifi]

Apparantly some of our "reputable" restaurants have gotten a lot of people sick. There is always an investigation and most of the time the oysters are traced to Alabama or Louisana.

i don't think the oyster bar in NYC is going to stop serving oysters during the summer. that's ridiculous. or rather, it's ridiculous to suggest that they're putting their customers at an ureasonable risk.

Well... All of my comments about oysters are about Gulf Coast oysters. I am sure that where water temperatures don't get as high there is less of a problem. Also, monitoring and regulation have been improving so I would suspect that even well monitored Gulf oysters don't carry the same risk that they did a few years ago.

Most of my oyster sucking friends would agree with essvee though.

[tommy]

can we assume that good restaurants get their oysters from all over the world, where, of course, the water temp can be 50 degrees in one spot and 80 in another at the same time? (well, not *all* over the world, but certainly at different points up and down the coasts of north america) if we don't acknowledge this, then this discussion becomes very confusing.

Edited August 27, 2003 by tommy (log)

[fifi]

The red tide discussion may be a bit of a red herring. Unless I am far wrong, the injunction against eating oysters, clams and mussels in non-R months began because that's when they spawn, at least in  colder waters, and are therefore less succulent, not because they are more dangerous.

The red tide phenomenon is an entirely different thing and can be managed.

Trust me... In the south, contamination is a real issue. 35 years ago I was a foods microbiologist with FDA in New Orleans. Every summer, we were chasing food poisoning cases from raw oysters. It was a real test to identify the culprits in a lot of cases. We would find huge bacterial loads. I remember one celebrated case out of Mobile Bay that we never did figure out the origin of the particular Vibrio bug involved.