Yellow and white cakes

[Reap]

Wow was I excited when I saw this thread! I had been on my own quest for the best white cake (with-out much luck!) when I found eGullet aka Heaven!

So far I have found that the few cakes I've been able to make taste very similar. However, I've been a bit dissapointed in the density of them. They all seem a little heavy. Do I admit that I'm hoping to find a recipe that makes a lighter cake similar to that of a cake mix?

I was wondering if out of all the recipes tested was there one that stood out as being light?

Unfortunately I do not have time to try all the recipes (two kids, one five months old- Doesn't allow for alot of baking time- She's actually starting to lose it while I'm trying to write this post! While my oldest is bugging me to show her the Smilie Faces)

Also, is cake flour an absolute and would that be the problem to having cakes that are a bit denser? ( Did try omitting 2Tbs of all purpose per cup and adding 2Tbs cornstarch)

Any info and advice would be greatly appreciated!!

[mktye]

Reap -- Welcome to eGullet!

I was wondering if out of all the recipes tested was there one that stood out as being light?

TrishCT's cake was the lightest of all the cakes I baked. The other cake I made from an old Betty Crocker recipe (which was very similar to Trish's recipe) was also pretty light, so I think the separately beaten egg whites are the key to the lightness.

However, I did use cake flour in all the recipes, so I cannot say how they'd be with AP flour.

TrishCT -- Glad the KA cake came out well for you. After your positive review, I am definitely making it later this week.

skyflyer3 -- I use Softasilk cake flour.

[TrishCT]

MK...I know you have made (many more than) your fair share of cakes lately!!!

The King Arthur White is really good... and I think it would satisfy Reap's request for a light cake.... (though not as light as angel food, which is the ultimate light white cake...)

Cake flour definitely makes for a finer, softer texture. I would use cake flour for these white cake recipes.

[mktye]

I finally got around to making the King Arthur Flour's Elegant White Cake and taste tested it against some defrosted Betty Crocker's Rich White Cake. I did make a couple of changes to the original Elegant White Cake recipe:

1. Used 3 tsp. of vanilla instead of vanilla and almond so the flavoring would be consistent between the cakes tasted.

2. Used 1 cup (8 oz) of butter intead of butter and shortening. (For health reasons, I no longer use hydrogenated oils.)

The King Arthur cake was excellent. Good flavor and a lighter texture (similar to TrishCT's cake) than the Rich White Cake. One taster still preferred the Rich White Cake with the denser, more pound-cake like texture, but the other two of us liked the Elegant White Cake better. I found the flavor of the two to be almost identical with the only real difference being the density.

I have a picture to post, but ImageGullet is down, so I'll have to post it later.

MK...I know you have made (many more than) your fair share of cakes lately!!!

My hubbie came home the other day, scowled and said: "Honey, that is not another white cake is it?!?" I was happy to answer him: "No, that is another banana cake -- I'm baking the white cake tomorrow!"

Edited June 21, 2004 by mktye (log)

[Reap]

I used frozen egg whites when I tried the rich white cake recipe. Would that make a difference?

I plan on making the KA elegant white cake this weekend. I'm pretty hopeful that itwill be the texture and density I'm looking for. Especially since I have the proper flour!

Mktye thank you again for all your help and info! (I'm in awe of all the cakes you've made!)

Edited June 22, 2004 by Reap (log)

[Wendy DeBord]

The differences would be minute- frozen whites work well.

Mktye-give it a day or two and photo's will work just fine again-we had a big system upgrade this past weekend that takes some time to finish.

[mktye]

Here is the pic of the KA Elegant White Cake:

Just thought I'd drop in and say I'm yearning for a nice home made white cake. 

You have not had any luck in finding a recipe that works well with French flour?

You can always hop on a plane to D.C. -- I have plenty of cake to share!

[TrishCT]

Nice pic MK it captures the essence much better than mine...I hope I can figure out how to make my pics actually look good and not distorted because it does the food extreme disservice....

Anyway...just slightly off topic... but Bleau is it true that the French also don't know how to make chocolate chip cookies and that they are a highly prized delicacy?

[mktye]

Nice pic MK it captures the essence much better than mine...I hope I can figure out how to make my pics actually look good and not distorted because it does the food extreme disservice....

Thanks Trish, although I feel this pic did not come out as well as the other white cake pictures I took previously. Not quite sure why. Since the cakes are so white, I have not been able to use the flash (too much reflection) which leads to a bit of blurriness.

Do you have a photo editing program? I'd be lost without mine. On the above pic, I used the program to sharpen the picture up a bit and increased the lightness about 25% to compensate for the lack of flash and to achieve real-life color.

Also, if you have not seen it, there is a thread here on the eG Site Tips and Techniques forum where they've been discussing food photography at length.

[bleudauvergne]

Just thought I'd drop in and say I'm yearning for a nice home made white cake.  

You have not had any luck in finding a recipe that works well with French flour?

The second time I mixed flours and it turned out rather well. But then my cake testing days were put to an end, due to necessity to go on a diet.

Anyway...just slightly off topic... but Bleau is it true that the French also don't know how to make chocolate chip cookies and that they are a highly prized delicacy?

It's true, and they think I'm a goddess every time I toss a batch of toll house cookies together, (I have to chop up baking chocolate due to a void of chips in this country) it's bizarre, another mystery of the French.

mktye's photos sure are making me hungry for some cake, though.

Edited June 24, 2004 by bleudauvergne (log)

[claire797]

MK,

I think that's the best looking white cake I've ever seen! Wow!

(The KA cake, that is!)

Edited June 24, 2004 by claire797 (log)

[TrishCT]

MK,

I think that's the best looking white cake I've ever seen! Wow!

(The KA cake, that is!)

The King Arthur Cake reigns supreme.

[Reap]

Okay, I have just put my KA cake in the oven. I am very optimistic that it will turn out quite light!(I'm a bit fanatical at this point about trying to find a 'light' cake! ) I can already tell the difference from this batter (using cake flour) and the other cakes I tried while using AP flour. This batter is MUCH lighter. Figure the end result will be as well.

While I was making this cake a couple of questions came up.

Before this cake, I had never used cake flour-I wasn't sure if I was supposed to sift it or not. I figured sifting would help with making for a lighter cake, so I did sift it.

Also, when a cake calls for two cups sifted flour does that mean to measure out two cups and then sift it or is it two cups AFTER sifting? For this cake I measured after I had sifted.

I noticed while I was measuring out my Vanilla that it was a bit cloudy. I had never noticed this before. Anyone know why this would be? Got me wondering if vanilla could go bad.

Okay, last question. Is there a real measurable difference between cake flours? I have seen Softsilk mentioned numerous times as being the choice brand. I went to my local grocery store which did not have Softsilk. I'm in Canada, is it even available here?

Thanks for putting up with me! I know that my questions give away the fact that I am a VERY novice baker , but I do love baking and have always done it for fun (and stress relief). Thanks again.

Kate

**Just checked on the cake-looking good! Five more minutes to go!

[mktye]

Okay, I have just put my KA cake in the oven.  I am very optimistic that it will turn out quite light!(I'm a bit fanatical at this point about trying to find a 'light' cake!    )  I can already tell the difference from this batter (using cake flour) and the other cakes I tried while using AP flour.  This batter is MUCH lighter.  Figure the end result will be as well.

And how did it turn out?

While I was making this cake a couple of questions came up.

Before this cake, I had never used cake flour-I wasn't sure if I was supposed to sift it or not. I figured sifting would help with making for a lighter cake, so I did sift it.

Also, when a cake calls for two cups sifted flour does that mean to measure out two cups and then sift it or is it two cups AFTER sifting?  For this cake I measured after I had sifted. 

I almost always sift cake flour since it tends to be so finely milled and clumps together.

As far as the measuring... it really depends on how the recipe is written and the practices of the author/cookbook.

For example:

1 cup flour, sifted = measure first, sift second

1 cup sifted flour = sift first, measure second

I just checked the KA "Baker's Companion" (where the recipe came from) and they don't even mention sifting in the recipe!

However, for volumetric measurement of flour, they call for fluffing the flour, filling the measuring cup with a spoon and then leveling off the top. (As opposed to dipping the measuring cup into the flour and then leveling off).

Bottom line--it is much more accurate and easier to measure flour by weight rather than volume. That is what I did with this recipe. I sifted the cake flour into a bowl on my scale until I had the desired weight of flour. Here is the eG Kitchen Scale Manifesto that goes over the advantages of measuring by weight and dicusses various types of scales and their use.

I noticed while I was measuring out my Vanilla that it was a bit cloudy.  I had never noticed this before.  Anyone know why this would be?  Got me wondering if vanilla could go bad.

I have also noticed this, but do not know the cause. I don't think vanilla can really go "bad" (as in harmful to the health) because if its high alcohol content, but I imagine over time, or if it is kept in a hot environment, the flavor can change or just fade away.

Okay, last question.  Is there a real measurable difference between cake flours?  I have seen Softsilk mentioned numerous times as being the choice brand.  I went to my local grocery store which did not have Softsilk. I'm in Canada, is it even available here? 

That is a very good question. I've never done any side-by-side comparisons (hmmm... ), so I personally have no idea. I suspect that one reason Softasilk is mentioned so much is that, in my experience, it is the most prevelant brand in the U.S..

I hope the cake turned out well for you and it meets your expections!

[Reap]

Finally have a moment to post!

I have to say the flavour and texture of the cake was wonderful!! The only thing is, is I believe I overbaked it.

I checked the cake at 25 minutes (I didn't use a toothpick- I'm kicking myself now!) just did the finger touch, and it didn't spring back. So I gave it five more minutes- same thing. Five more minutes- springs back! I take it out of the oven and it seems heavenly!

Then it cools..... and I notice immediately that its VERY firm and know that is over-baked and going to be dry!

But that will not stop me!! I am going to make this cake again and use a toothpick to check when its done. (even dry it tasted SO good that the whole cake is gone! This finding the perfect white cake is BAD! )

Mktye-

I noticed that the recipe didn't mention sifting too. Figured to be safe and sifted.

Thanks all the help!! I adding scale to my wish list - trying to think of a reason (ie birthday -too far away- mom's day -just past and got an upright mixer- ) to ask for one!!

Ack!! Hope flour comparison question doesn't cause you to go out of your way and do an actual comparison test!! Though I have to admit I can already see you posting results!

But seriously, thanks again for all the help.

Oh! Forgot to ask you. What kind of scale do you use?

Edited June 29, 2004 by Reap (log)

[mktye]

Glad you were able to choke down the cake. That is what I found with trying the various white cake recipes in this thread--they all produced very excellent cakes that I was more than happy to eat!

I adding scale to my wish list - trying to think of a reason (ie birthday -too far away- mom's day -just past and got an upright mixer- )  to ask for one!!

A 4 of July present to celebrate independence from measuring flour by volume?!?

I have an old (5+ years) Terraillon electronic scale. It easily switches from ounces to grams and has always worked well despite the abuse it gets.

[ChocoChris]

I know that it has been a while since anyone posted to this thread but since it was less than a month ago, I'll add my two cents. I baked the KA cake this morning. Mind you, this was before eating breakfast. I add that caveat because on my first tasting, after taking them out of the pans, came from a layer that was not fully cooled. I did try another piece later after it fully cooled.

I baked 2 9" cakes - one in a stainless steel pan and the other in a nonstick pan. I noticed that the nonstick finished a couple of minutes before the stainless steel which I would expect since the pan is dark gray. The stainless steel one could have used a few minutes so I think the center was a tad softer than the edges.

For some reason I obsess about height and use it, among other factors, to gauge success. These layers came in about 1 3/4" high. I am concerned that they should have been higher. I left my butter out over night and it got fairly soft but I don't think that it should have made a difference in height - or could it?

I also forgot to sift the flour. I used weight to measure out the ingredients.

The taste was pleasantly vanilla and while not too sweet, I did think it a bit on the sweet side. I'm wondering how it will taste with frosting.

I did have a slight doming but nothing too pronounced and no cracking. Tops were nice and smooth.

Here's a pic of cake from stainless pan.

[nventura]

Help I need gram weights!

Simple gram conversion...Write it on a piece of maskin tape and stick it to the back of your calculator: g x .035= oz. ...or... oz./ .035= g

[mignardise]

Hi There,

I have been noticing this thread. I wanted to bring it out of hiding. Is this the consensus.........the KA cake as the best so far? Has anyone had an opinion to Beranbaum's white velvet butter cake? That is one I have been using for some time. I like the mixing method.

I do have one from Chocolatier that might be a contender, if anyone's up for it.

This one folds whites at the end. I prefer to have less items to wash.

[Reap]

Mignardise,

I would definately be interested in trying both recipes!

I have to say out of all the ones I have tried the KA is the best one, but I am always willing to try something new.

[kthull]

Ok, so I'm resurrecting this thread because my daughter's Communion is next week and she wants white cake. My tests earlier in the thread left me preferring mkfradin's white cake, but the later recipes had me intrigued, especially based on the high test rating of the Rich White Cake from Betty Crocker.

So I made that as is and loved the flavor, but thought the texture was on the dry side and too fall-apart tender. Not wanting to abandon it because of the flavor, I turned to my Cook Wise book from Shirley O'Corrihor. Based on her percentages of a "standard" high ratio cake, it looked to me that the recipe had too much fat and could be moister if I subbed in some oil for the butter. I also changed the mixing method. There was also too much baking powder (5 tsp), again based on the recommendations in the book.

Below is my modified recipe. But first, a couple weight notes: I used superfine sugar. The original recipe called for 2 cups sugar, which should be 400g but when I weighed out 2 cups of superfine, it was 480g. The taste rocked, so I kept it at that (and used that in my high-ratio cake percentages). The original recipe also called for 3-1/3 cups sifted cake flour. So I sifted into my measuring cups and weighed it. Mine came out to 400g. Those are my numbers and using them yielded a better cake.

Modified Betty Crocker Rich White Cake

400g cake flour, sifted

480g superfine sugar

1 tsp salt

4 tsp baking powder

1 stick unsalted butter, softened

1/4 cup oil (I used almond oil)

1-1/3 cups water + milk (50/50)

2 tsp vanilla

180g egg whites, unbeaten (approximately 6, though I used exact weight)

Sift dry ingredients together and mix well to combine. In a separate bowl, mix water/milk mixture with vanilla and egg whites. Bring to room temperature.

Mix butter and oil into dry ingredients, then add just enough of the liquid to allow you to beat the batter at medium for 2 minutes and yield a thick smooth batter. Scrape down bowl.

Add 1/3 of remaining liquid ingredient and beat at medium speed for 20 seconds. Scrape down and repeat two more times.

Pour batter into prepared cake pans and bake at 350. I used a parchment-lined half sheet pan, greased and floured. Mine finished in 22 minutes.

This version had the same taste as the original, but was moister and not fall-apart tender, but still very tender. I'm going with this one for next week. I think it could also work with a bit more oil (1/3 c) and one more egg white to keep the egg to fat ratio in check, but I won't be testing that.

Another interesting note: the original recipe baked in 28 minutes. The modified version finished in 22 minutes...that's 25% faster. I'm guessing because of the oil?

[scordelia]

James Beard's American Cooking has a great buttermilk white cake recipe. The buttermilk makes it really rise and gives the cake a little tanginess so it is not so cloying. Let me know if you want me to post the recipe.

Sophie

[chefcyn]

Hi everyone, the aftertaste most people find so undesireable in mix cakes is most likely from the leaveners they use. I don't know about you, but none of my scratch recipes include sodium aluminum phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, or aluminum sulfate. If you make them right, you don't even need baking soda pr powder if you are using a whipped egg white recipe.

From the recipes posted I also see a lot of pure extracts for flavors like Vanilla, most of the box mixes use artificial flavorings--like vanillin which comes from pine trees and has a slight turpentine-ish aftertaste to it to me.

Some people can also taste the food colorants as well.

Now, some people are not offended by these tastes (my absolute favorite cake is Betty Crocker Super Moist Yellow Cake--so much so that I love to lick the beater and spatula--I'd almost rather eat the batter than the baked cake!

I remember in my first baking class back at J&W a million years ago, I tasted the cake batter for a scratch yellow cake we were making and found it YUCKY! I asked the instructor why it tasted so bad and he said I was probably not used to tasting all those raw egg yolks. Well--I think now that it was those weird leaveners I was missing

I really like the Betty Crocker Creamy White frosting in the can, too. I find it less sweet, more 'buttery'tasting" than buttercream made with powdered sugar and butter. And that stuff they include with the canned refrigerator cinnamon rolls... *sigh*

Chocolate cake is another issue. I prefer scratch cake there because you can choose the chocolate you use. Dutch process cocoa is really different from regular, dark chocolate is different from milk chocolate, etc. And canned chocolate frosting is just glurky. There is nothing better, IMHO than real chocolate buttercream.

Edited April 25, 2005 by chefcyn (log)

[CaliPoutine]

James Beard's American Cooking has a great buttermilk white cake recipe. The buttermilk makes it really rise and gives the cake a little tanginess so it is not so cloying. Let me know if you want me to post the recipe.

Sophie

←

Id like it if the offer is still open. I find I buy buttermilk for one recipe and never use the rest.

[RuthWells]

My favorite yellow and white cakes are both from "The Whimsical Bakehouse" by Liv & Kaye Hansen. Each yields 9 cups of batter and is written to be baked in two 10" rounds. I have baked the full recipe in two 9" rounds for a nice, tall cake. I reduce the formulas by 2/3 when I want to use 8" rounds. I've also adapted them for 13" rounds and sheet cakes without rescaling the levening (i.e., I scale the levening as I do the other ingredients, without adjusting for the change in surface area).

Yellow Cake

8 oz unsalted butter

2 cups sugar

6 large egg yolks

1.5 tsp vanilla

3.5 cups cake flour

1 Tbs + 1/2 tsp baking powder

3/4 tsp salt

1.5 cups milk

Cream the butter and sugar. Add the egg yolks and vanilla; beat until fluffy. Whisk dry ingredients together in a large bowl and add them to the egg mixture alternately with the milk. Bake at 350* for 20-35 minutes, depending on the pan size and how full the pans are.

Suggested variation: Substitute 3/4 cup orange juice for half of the milk and add 1 Tbs grated orange zest along with the milk. Makes a fabulous orange cake.

White Cake

6 oz unsalted butter

2.5 cups sugar (divided)

1.5 tsp salt

3 1/3 cups cake flour

1.5 tsp baking powder

3/4 tsp cream of tartar

1.25 cups milk

3/4 tsp vanilla

3/4 cup egg whites (from 6-8 large eggs)

Cream the butter and 2 cups sugar with the salt. Whisk flour, baking powder & cream of tartar together in a large bowl and add them to the butter mixture alternately with the milk and vanilla. In separate bowl, beat egg whites until foamy, add remaining 1/2 cup sugar and beat until stiff peaks form. Fold egg whites into cake batter until just blended. Bake at 350* for 20-35 minutes, depending on the pan size and how full the pans are.

************

Notes: The recipes call for the batter to be baked in 2 10x3 round pans, filling one pan with 3.5 cups of batter and the other pan with the remaining 5.5 cups. This in theory should give you 3 layers once you split what comes out of the more-full pan. The book's baking times for this configuration are 20-25 minutes for the less-full pan and 30-35 minutes for the more full pan. I play with this configuration all the time, adjusting baking times as needed.

These cakes are both moist, flavorful, have good crumb and cut cleanly. After a lot of years only making RLB's buttercakes, I am a convert to these formulas.

Edited June 23, 2005 by RuthWells (log)