Thompson's Turkey

[sandra]

Seth, I really liked this thread also, photos were great! I'm not sure I will try one this year, but maybe sometime...

As for turning the turkeys, we use Nomex gloves as seen here: Nomex

They are heat resistant even at the end of cooking the turkey for hours, just lift him out and transfer to platter, no juggling spoons or knife steels - and the best part, you throw them in the wash right after and they are good as new.

[Akiko]

OOh, thanks Sandra.

Now I know what my husband's thanksgiving present will be as he's the one who is going to get to keep turning the turkey according to Thompson's recipe!

[rockhopper]

SethG,

Looks like the turkey took a lot of effort but your posts here also took a lot of effort.

Thanks for everything.

[fifi]

Also, I want to add, I saw in a store today a pair of All Clad turkey turners for $30.

I don't think I would pay $30 for such equipment, when you could pay much less for something like this to do the same job!

Williams Sonoma had the turkey lifters on sale last year around the holidays. I don't rememeber the price, but they must have been pretty cheap because I bought several as gifts. You might want to look out for a similar sale this year. The garden forks are a good idea though. I have an Oxo turkey/chicken lifter that works great for lifting but I don't know that it would work so well for turning. It is a U-shaped thing with a handle on one end of the U. Looks wicked. (I can't find a picture of it on the Oxo site.)

How do you keep the "shell" from getting messed up during all of that turning?

Also, I saw a program on this a few years ago and the turkey was actually black. They (whoever it was) claimed that the recipe was followed exactly from the original as written by Thompson.

[SethG]

How do you keep the "shell" from getting messed up during all of that turning?

Also, I saw a program on this a few years ago and the turkey was actually black. They (whoever it was) claimed that the recipe was followed exactly from the original as written by Thompson.

I thinks that's why Steingarten advises against doing all the turns. He's worried the shell will get messed up-- and having done this myself, I'd be a little afraid of a leg falling off during the final turn!

As for the blackness, I guess actual miles vary. All ovens are different, and the thickness of the paste is going to vary depending on the size of your bird. Mine was pretty black, though; more so than the photo might lead you to believe. The flash photography made the red undertones come through more than they did to the naked eye.

And thank you, rockhopper, I'm glad you liked my purple prose.

[LEdlund]

Thanks SethG for an infomative and entertaining diary of your Thompson Turkey. I have wanted to do one of these for years, but now I am going to take your advice and brine and do the Thompson stuffing.

[Akiko]

If I can find all the ingredients I'm going to do a practice thompson's turkey late in October, I'm going to brine and use a smaller turkey, I'll let you know how it goes but I don't promise anywhere near the description that Seth wrote with!

Akiko

[SethG]

I've been doing a little more turkey reading, and I've read that although the U.S. government says you want to cook turkeys and chickens to 170 degrees, the actual temperature at which salmonella is killed is...... 140 degrees.

So why does Steingarten go for such high temperatures in his Thompson's Turkey chapter? If I'd stopped when the leg and the stuffing were over 140, I'd have taken my turkey out earlier-- maybe an hour earlier. And if I'd done that, I might have said "gravy? Who needs gravy?"

Can anyone who happens to mistakenly click on Special Occasions help me out here? Steingarten is no slave to federal standards. He'd be the first to tell you that young unpasteurized cheese should not be illegal. What gives? Why does he recommend that you get the white meat to 170 degrees, the stuffing to 160 degrees and the dark meat to 180 degrees?

[Akiko]

I've never thought to question it, all my cooking books, thermometer's etc, all say to cook to that temperature...

Has anyone ever made giblet gravy? I've been thinking about the gravy problem since you mentioned the turkey gives no drippings and found a gravy recipe made just from the heart, liver, neck... it also stipulates that you finely dice the heart, liver, neck in the end and throw it into the gravy... which I don't like the idea of.

Does anyone have a giblet gravy recipe they like and can tell me how it tastes (I don't like the sound of livery tasting gravy)? Or an idea/recipe of how you make gravy without pan drippings?

[SethG]

I've never thought to question it, all my cooking books, thermometer's etc, all say to cook to that temperature...

Has anyone ever made giblet gravy?  I've been thinking about the gravy problem since you mentioned the turkey gives no drippings and found a gravy recipe made just from the heart, liver, neck... it also stipulates that you finely dice the heart, liver, neck in the end and throw it into the gravy... which I don't like the idea of.

Does anyone have a giblet gravy recipe they like and can tell me how it tastes (I don't like the sound of livery tasting gravy)?  Or an idea/recipe of how you make gravy without pan drippings?

No one wants to get sued. But James Peterson, for one, recommends lower temperatures, his goal being just to clear the 140 degree barrier.

[Akiko]

Okay, Seth

Turkey is arriving on Thursday (had to get a frozen free range) and Sandra those gloves should be arriving soon too!

I'm now off to find preserved ginger!

Akiko

[SethG]

Hey good luck, and report your results!

If your local supermarket has an "international" section, you'll find the ginger there. Otherwise you should be able to get it at any asian market.

[marie-louise]

Two questions:

Has anyone made this turkey, with its stuffing, but not coated it? Seth, I believe you mentioned somewhere on this thread you didn't think the coating was that important. Or was it the basting you'd suggest skipping?

Has anyone made this stuffing, but just baked it in a baking dish? How did that taste?

I'm tempted, but looking for a few shortcuts. Sort of a "Quick and Easy Thompson's."

[SethG]

Has anyone made this turkey, with its stuffing, but not coated it? Seth, I believe you mentioned somewhere on this thread you didn't think the coating was that important. Or was it the basting you'd suggest skipping?

Has anyone made this stuffing, but just baked it in a baking dish? How did that taste?

Come Thanksgiving, I think I'm going to make the stuffing, then cook it seperately from a brined turkey, or stuff the brined turkey; I haven't decided. But I think I will skip the coating and basting. I'm going to go for the best, moistest turkey with gravy to enjoy with the Thompson stuffing.

Although I dunno, I keep thinking about trying it all again, this time roasting it mostly breast down and using less paste..... the basting really wasn't that much work, but then again, I want crispy skin.

Whatever.

The shorter answer to your question is that your plan will probably work out fine. Steingarten suggests something similar in his turkey chapter, involving a high temp quick roasting of the turkey with the stuffing beside it in a bowl. He says you should cover the stuffing well and roast it for a couple hours.

[Akiko]

Seth,

Don't you think that "shell" is actually doing anything? I wondered if its purpose isn't to slow down the cooking even more.... but if that is the case, why don't we just roast at a very low temperature?

I've been roasting my chicken a la Heston Blumenthal and doing it at a psychotically low temperature... while I like this - juicy chicken- I do not like the rubbery skin... so i think I'm going to go back to brining and high roasting a spatchcocked chicken.

That aside, I'm sure that shell is doing something.... I just don't know what.

Seth, what does preserved ginger look like? I just came from a few "high end" markets and couldn't find it. They did have stem ginger in syrup but I don't think this is it? Is preserved ginger dry? Or in a can?

Thanks!

[SethG]

I think I said somewhere above that I think the shell did seal in moisture; the white meat was still moist even though it was probably cooked too long, and the dark meat was just great. But Thompson says the turkey's supposed to be so tender that just talking to it will make it fall apart. That wasn't my experience. The dark meat was close to falling apart, but not the white meat.

And I think it's supposed to flavor the bird, but I don't know if it really did that.

The ginger comes in a glass jar; it looks like the stuff that you get on the side when you go out for sushi. It's in slices, and has an peach/salmon color. The jar I bought said either "preserved ginger" or "pickled ginger" on it. I think that's the right stuff.

[Akiko]

Seth,

being Japanese the thought of putting gari - pickled ginger in stuffing sounded so strange to me that I asked another friend who has made the thompson turkey before... preserved ginger... looks like candied rocks was the description!

Should be in the baking or spice section of any "good" food store.... I still haven't found it... I'm going to waitrose on Friday, I'll let you know.

[marie-louise]

I asked another friend who has made the thompson turkey before... preserved ginger... looks like candied rocks was the description!

That is also known as Crystalized Ginger. In addition to the spice section, I've also seen boxes of it in the Asian section of the supermarket. (I buy mine from Penzey's.)

That makes more sense as an ingredient than the pickeld ginger you'd get in a sushi restaurant. Crystalized Ginger is sweet, almost candied.

[SethG]

Well, you learn something new every day. It turns out pickled, preserved, and crystalized ginder are all different things, with preserved and crystalized often substituted for each other in recipes.

See here.

Pickled ginger is made with vinegar, preserved ginger with sugar.

My face is red.

I don't think it harmed my stuffing, though. And it didn't sound any stranger than a lot of the other stuff that went in there. I'll try to find the right stuff for next time, though.

[marie-louise]

Well, you learn something new every day.

As did I-I thought that Preserved Ginger and Crystalized Ginger were the same. I didn't realize that Preserved Ginger was saltier. My favorite thing to do w/ this stuff is whir it w/ a little sugar in a food processor and sprinkle it over not-quite-prime strawberries. Soy-flavored strawberries, anyone?

I don't think it harmed my stuffing, though.  And it didn't sound any stranger than a lot of the other stuff that went in there.

Yeah, it is quite the mixture, I could see how you wouldn't know quite which one Thompson meant.

[Akiko]

Okay, the turkey was a big lesson... one I won't be repeating anytime soon

I went home with my 12 pounder on Thursday evening and brined it on Friday morning... did some other dishes friday night - pumpkin pie, walnut petites.

Then bright and early Saturday morning we rinsed the turkey and set him aside to dry and started all the chopping... you and J Steingarten weren't kidding. We only made half the recipe and it still took us 3 hours to get the turkey in the oven, me and my husband chopping away (of course, there was the hour that we spent trying to figure out why my scale wasn't working and then a run to the store to get a new battery.. and the fact that I burned one batch of breadcrumbs!).

I hate that paste stuff, it was such a problem... didn't know if I was painting the bird evenly enough... had thick patches and thin. And was already ripping some of the turkey skin as we painted...

I have some thoughts on the paste... if the point of the paste is to slow down the cooking of the turkey as well as help seal in the flavor, I'm not sure if its worth it. Why not lower the cooking temperature even more?

Or my father in law has this recipe for a turkey that is cooked so slowly, its left in the oven overnight with a wine soaked tea towel draped over it... I wonder if this would present similar results??

The reason I think this is because I believe the "meat falling off the bone" effect is gotten from the turkey being cooked long and slow... I'm not sure if its the paste... I mean, if its a seal effect we are going for, why not roast in a turkey roasting bag?

Anyways, this is where we began to go downhill. What I've realized is that you cannot do a Thompson's turkey with a 12 pound bird.... you must do at least 16 if not the whole 22 pounder.

The turkey was done much too quickly... Breast was done at less than two hours... stuffing undone and the dark meat would probably have been done in three... but I can't bear the thought of dry white meat so we took the thing out and carved the breasts off... slugged the rest back in. Stuffing was underdone in the end and we pulled it out and popped it back in.

And boy was peeling that paste off a pain.

The turkey was good but no better than my previous brined versions.... but I didn't get the slow cooked falling off the bone effect.

Here are my suggestions for the next person who tries... go for the 22 pounder, although I don't know how you are going to manage the thing.. that's a lot of chopping and heavy pulling in and out of the oven. DO NOT STUFF THE TURKEY, do that separately. Its very difficult to get this turkey to come to temp at the same time without adding the stuffing factor. When you do the stuffing put it in for a long time at a low temp, the flavours don't meld well if you don't.

It was just too much trouble to do again... this year. But maybe someday I will try it again with a large turkey. Until then, I'm going to brine and spatchcock my turkeys!

And I know I'm the lone dissenting voice, but I wasn't that crazy for the stuffing.

[SethG]

Akiko, I'm sorry to hear you had such a difficult and disappointing experience!

[Akiko]

No pain, no gain !

It would have been worse if I had done that with a 22 pounder and it hadn't been the most amazing turkey I'd ever eaten!

[malarkey]

Has anyone ever made giblet gravy?  I've been thinking about the gravy problem since you mentioned the turkey gives no drippings and found a gravy recipe made just from the heart, liver, neck... it also stipulates that you finely dice the heart, liver, neck in the end and throw it into the gravy... which I don't like the idea of.

Does anyone have a giblet gravy recipe they like and can tell me how it tastes (I don't like the sound of livery tasting gravy)?  Or an idea/recipe of how you make gravy without pan drippings?

I make giblet gravy. you simmer the neck, gizzard, heart & liver in water till you have broth (which supplements any pan drippings) take these items out and make a gravy from the broth, (you can reduce the broth a bit to intensify flavors), use some demi-glace and some booze of your choosing (I like sherry) and I then cut up the heart and take the neck meat off the bones and throw them back into the gravy. I don't use the liver or gizzard in the final gravy. but the neck meat and the heart meat are lovely. The gravy does not taste livery at all. I supplement with Pacific or Kitchen Basics chicken stock if I don't have any homemade. This year I have some homemade duck stock so I think I'll use that for the gravy.

[SeleneSue]

I'm sure brining helps any turkey, but I can't say how it might throw off Thompson's bird.  I decided when I undertook to make the turkey that I'd stick to the recipe, and try variations later if I ever did it again.  I can't imagine brining would hurt, though.  It might make the bird cook faster, and could result in the turkey being done before the stuffing is hot enough, but that's the only negative I can think of. 

I've done the Thompson's Turkey about five times now. The first time was on a dare! The rest were voluntary, with minor variations. I'd do it again this T'giving but for family politics; my cousin has a speedy toddler whom they are afraid will run into the oven door during the frequent bastings. Frankly, I think it's just that my mother is a big chicken when it comes to turkey, but I can't tell her that.

Do not brine the Thompson's Turkey. It makes the flesh watery rather than moist. I don't know how else to describe it. The flavor has to come in from the outside for this recipe.

If you don't have enough liquid at the bottom of the pan at the end, then you did not use enough basting liquid. Add more than you think you need. Add more every time you baste. Then deglaze the pan once you've taken the birdie out to rest.

I make about triple the amount of flour paste that the recipe recommends in order to get the whole bird coated more than once. There is a dedicated 1-inch-wide paintbrush in my utensil drawer which is JUST for this goo.

Try NOT to drink all the drinks recommended. <urp>

Selene Sue