Bitter Melon/Winter Melon?

[mudbug]

Any favorites methods of preparation out there for Winter Melon, Hairy Gourd , and or Bitter Melon? Anyone had the white bitter melon, is the flavor different? Fond memories? Did you like it as a child?

If you are unsure exactly what they look like, just click on the links provided above....

Edited July 25, 2003 by mudbug (log)

[Shiewie]

Winter Melon

One of my favourite soups is double-boiled whole winter melon soup that they serve at fancy dinners. The insides of the melon is scooped out and the whole winter melon is slowly boiled with chicken stock, chicken, yunan ham, mushrooms and scallops. Sometimes the sides of the melon are also prettily carved with an intricate design.

At home, we sometimes have a similar soup but nothing as complicated. The winter melon is chopped up into pieces and boiled with chicken, pork and dried scallops.

Another favourite preparation of winter melon is as sweet soup where it's boiled with arhan fruit (luohan guo) and longan - it's very soothing to drink this icy-cold when it's hot outside or if one has a itchy throat.

Hairy Gourd

Steamed hairy gourd with minced pork and toong choy. The gourd is cut into segments lengthwise and a little hollow made in each segment by scooping out the insides. The hollow bits are then filled with the minced pork and toong choy mixture.

Julienned hairy gourd stir-fried with egg and bean thread noodles.

Bitter Gourd

I used hate bitter gourd as a child as anything bitter was associated with the bitter chinese herbal brews. I didn't understand why the adults would want to eat something that bitter voluntarily.

Sigh, it must be a sign of old age as I actually like bitter gourd now. A favourite way with bitter gourd is to braise it with chicken, julienned ginger and preserved black beans. It's very comforting to eat this with a bowl of plain congee / jook.

[herbacidal]

Another favourite preparation of winter melon is as sweet soup where it's boiled with arhan fruit (luohan guo) and longan - it's very soothing to drink this icy-cold when it's hot outside or if one has a itchy throat.

Bitter Gourd

I used hate bitter gourd as a child as anything bitter was associated with the bitter chinese herbal brews. I didn't understand why the adults would want to eat something that bitter voluntarily.

Sigh, it must be a sign of old age as I actually like bitter gourd now. A favourite way with bitter gourd is to braise it with chicken, julienned ginger and preserved black beans. It's very comforting to eat this with a bowl of plain congee / jook.

not exactly sure what this is. will hafta look it up.

Hairy Gourd

Steamed hairy gourd with minced pork and toong choy. The gourd is cut into segments lengthwise and a little hollow made in each segment by scooping out the insides. The hollow bits are then filled with the minced pork and toong choy mixture.Julienned hairy gourd stir-fried with egg and bean thread noodles.Julienned hairy gourd stir-fried with egg and bean thread noodles.

this sounds like the cantonese jeet gua? long, seeds on the inside, often used for soup, the inside is a lot lighter green than the outside.

[Rhea_S]

Bad phonetic Chinese spelling of bitter melon is foo kwa if that helps any.

I love winter melon soups although I've never tried the sweet. I now like bitter melon, but I most like it when the bitterness isn't too prominent. I haven't figured out how to cook it without it becoming bitter, so I never cook with bitter melon at home.

[Akiko]

We had a short discussion about Bitter Melon once in this forum... I have no idea where it is buried... I haven't eaten this in a long time and wonder if I am "old enough" or more euphemistically put, my palate is now sophisticated enough to enjoy this. I did hate it as a child.

Someone told me to soak it in saltwater to remove some of the bitterness? I think someone else told me soak it in milk? Has anyone ever done this?

As a good okinawan girl, we make goya champuru... which is stir fried tofu, pork - bacon, and bitter melon.

[mudbug]

herbacidal,

not exactly sure what this is. will hafta look it up.

Click on the links in the first post which will take you to descriptions of each...

[titus wong]

Hairy Gourd

Steamed hairy gourd with minced pork and toong choy. The gourd is cut into segments lengthwise and a little hollow made in each segment by scooping out the insides. The hollow bits are then filled with the minced pork and toong choy mixture.

Wow, your recipes sound really authentic -- the kind of stuff my Cantonese grandma used to make. I'm really intrigued with your description of stuffed hairy melon but I'm a little unclear as to the preparation. Do you first cut it in half lengthwise and then into thirds or fourths, making little "boats"? I'm also curious about your use of toong choy, which I guess would be tang cai in Mandarin.

If we're talking about the same vegetable (dark green with waxy leaves; slightly rubbery texture reminiscent of a succulent), I've only used it in chicken broth-based soups. I love the way it tastes, but have never prepared it otherwise. Could you give some pointers as to the meat mixture? Here's how I envision it:

8 oz. ground pork

1 cp. toong choy, chopped

1/4 cp. dried shrimp, soaked in water and minced

2 slices ginger, minced

1 T light soy

1 T sherry or rice wine

1 T cornstarch

1 egg

1 generous pinch, white pepper

(Dropping in some minced shitakes might be called for, but I'm afraid of overwhelming the toong choy, although the shrimp may do it as well). Steam the whole thing over a wok for 40 minutes.

Sounds like one of those wonderfully subtle southern Chinese dishes that I'll end up slathering chili sauce all over. Could you provide some more detail on the bitter melon/black bean chicken braising method? Thanks in advance. I know I'm asking a lot.

As for the bitter melon discussion, I think someone told me to soak it in saltwater as well Or was it baking soda, the Chinese cooks' answer to everything? Melon too bitter? Soak it in baking soda and water. Cheap cut of beef too tough? Rub it with baking soda and leave overnight. Bamboo shoots and water chestnuts redolent with the taste of stainless steel from the tin? Blanch them in baking soda-infused boiling water.

I did try boiling the bitter melon before stir-frying them with flank steak in a black bean sauce, but it still came out too bitter.

Edited July 25, 2003 by titus wong (log)

[Gary Soup]

Winter Melon

One of my favourite soups is double-boiled whole winter melon soup that they serve at fancy dinners. The insides of the melon is scooped out and the whole winter melon is slowly boiled with chicken stock, chicken, yunan ham, mushrooms and scallops. Sometimes the sides of the melon are also prettily carved with an intricate design.

Like this one?

The recipe is HERE, if you want to try it at home!

[titus wong]

Hey Gary,

Great site for recipes! Now I'll never get any work done. BTW, I used your picture of xiao lung bao as my wallpaper at work, prompting a lot of compliments from hungry co-workers.

Thanks.

[tonkichi]

I love winter melon soups although I've never tried the sweet. I now like bitter melon, but I most like it when the bitterness isn't too prominent. I haven't figured out how to cook it without it becoming bitter, so I never cook with bitter melon at home.

look at the bittergourd before you cook it. if it is the small dynamite size ones, very bitter, and used more for medicinal purposes. the more commonly available type is about 8 inches long and 2-3 inches in diameter. the ones with deep grooves and furrows are more bitter.

i've not tried soaking it in salt water, what i usually do is to counteract the bitterness with something fatty and/or salty, or a different texture.e.g.

1. the home favourite: quick braised with pork ribs and black beans. variations: chicken and dried squid/oyster in place of pork, or even beef, mutton, or slices of firm white fish.

2. stir fried with crackly roast pork and a little dark soya, sugar and plenty of garlic helps.

3. yong-tau fu: cut it into rings, and stuff with fish-meat paste, shallow fried, then short braised in tau-cheo (salty yellow bean paste), ginger and a little oyster sauce. this is hakka style.

4. slice very thinly, saute with sweet onion slices and pour beaten egg over to make scrambled eggs or omelet.

recently at my favourite cantonese restaurant (in S'pore), I had a bitter-gourd flavoured mochi, with sweet lotus paste filling. yum.

[Akiko]

recently at my favourite cantonese restaurant (in S'pore), I had a bitter-gourd flavoured mochi, with sweet lotus paste filling. yum.

You're kidding, blech. That sounds terrible

I'm going to try the saltwater trick this weekend... we'll see.

[trillium]

Like Tonkichi, I usually pick the bigger ones because I think the fu gua is born with all its bitter and it gets diluted with size. I like to cut them in half and scoop out the seeds, slice, and blanch in salted boiling water. They're still bitter, but not so bad. One of the favorites is to make black bean beef chow fun with slices of fu gua in addition to the bean sprouts.

One of our frequent quick winter soups is a ton of winter melon covered with good chicken broth and simmered until it goes translucent and lets out a lot of liquid. Then we stir in a few peas, fresh bamboo and a beaten egg. I like to sprinkle a little sesame oil on the top right before eating.

regards,

trillium

[tissue]

I don't eat bitter....

But I like winter melon soup, the fancy kind they serve at restaurants.

[tonkichi]

recently at my favourite cantonese restaurant (in S'pore), I had a bitter-gourd flavoured mochi, with sweet lotus paste filling. yum.

You're kidding, blech. That sounds terrible

I'm going to try the saltwater trick this weekend... we'll see.

not at all. it is a lotus paste-filled rice cake, and served lightly pan-fried. the skin is tinged green with a little bittergourd juice, and the slight bitterness cuts through the sweetness perfectly.

[Shiewie]

Hairy Gourd

Steamed hairy gourd with minced pork and toong choy. The gourd is cut into segments lengthwise and a little hollow made in each segment by scooping out the insides. The hollow bits are then filled with the minced pork and toong choy mixture.

Wow, your recipes sound really authentic -- the kind of stuff my Cantonese grandma used to make. I'm really intrigued with your description of stuffed hairy melon but I'm a little unclear as to the preparation. Do you first cut it in half lengthwise and then into thirds or fourths, making little "boats"? I'm also curious about your use of toong choy, which I guess would be tang cai in Mandarin.

If we're talking about the same vegetable (dark green with waxy leaves; slightly rubbery texture reminiscent of a succulent), I've only used it in chicken broth-based soups. I love the way it tastes, but have never prepared it otherwise. Could you give some pointers as to the meat mixture? Here's how I envision it:

8 oz. ground pork

1 cp. toong choy, chopped

1/4 cp. dried shrimp, soaked in water and minced

2 slices ginger, minced

1 T light soy

1 T sherry or rice wine

1 T cornstarch

1 egg

1 generous pinch, white pepper

(Dropping in some minced shitakes might be called for, but I'm afraid of overwhelming the toong choy, although the shrimp may do it as well). Steam the whole thing over a wok for 40 minutes.

Oops think I didn't describe how it was cut well - should not have been described as lengthwise. The hairy gourd is cut into little blocks/ segments of a tube (like how you'd cut cucumber slices, but big fat slices). Hollow the middle bit out but not all the way through.

The toong choy I mean is a preserved vegetable. It's commonly used to make a Cantonese homestyle steamed pork dish / meat patties of "jue yook jing toong choy". It was my sister's favourite dish when we were little and she had to have it just about every other day all mushed up with her rice.

I tried looking for a picture of toong choy online - couldn't find a picture of the vegetable itself but the best I could find was a picture at the site of UK online grocer of the eartherware jar that it's usually sold in http://www.hoohing.com/acatalog/Products_P...etables_49.html

.

Smaller amounts would be sold in sealed plastic bag packages.

It's usually pre-chopped in little squares, light brown in colour and quite salty. Think it's made with Napa cabbage but am not sure - will check with mum.

The pork mixture recipe is somewhat like this (somewhat as I have never actually measured the amounts)

8 - 10 oz of minced pork

1 1/4 t toong choy (rinse it as it's quite salty)

1 t of light soya sauce

2 T of cornstarch

salt - to taste

white pepper - to taste

1/2 t sesame oil (optional)

Mix the all the ingredients together. Coat the hollowed out bits of the hairy gourd with a little bit of cornflour (so that the meat mixture will stick to it) and fill the hollowed hairy gourd with the meat mixture. Place on a dish, add a 1/4 cup of water/stock to the dish and steam until the pork is cooked and gourd has changed to a translucent colour (about 30 minutes).

You can also steam the meat mixture on its own as "jue yook jing toong choy". Add about a 1/4 cup of water to the meat mixture and steam the meat mixture until cooked.

Another variation on the meat stuffing for the mo gua would be to substitute minced carrots, minced shitakes (dried ones that have been soaked), minced water chestnus and a dash of sesame oil instead of the toong choy in the pork mixture. This meat mixture is a bit more delicate and refined and not as earthy as the toong choy pork mixture.

 

this sounds like the cantonese jeet gua? long, seeds on the inside, often used for soup, the inside is a lot lighter green than the outside.

Yes, hairy gourd is also known as mo gua or jeet gua in Cantonese.

Could you provide some more detail on the bitter melon/black bean chicken braising method?

We usually choose fat pale green bitter gourds), not the tiny little ones nor the darker green ones that are too old as these are more bitter. I don't soak the bitter gourd in a salt water or baking soda solution but have heard that sprinkling a teaspoon or so of salt on bitter gourd helps to remove the bitterness by. Leave the salt on the bitter gourd for about 10 minutes and then rinse before using.

I remember the bitter melon that we used to get when we were little as being a lot more bitter than what we have nowadays. Not sure whether it's a change in my tastebuds or a different strain of bitter gourd.

Quarter the bittler gourd lengthwise (and yes this time I do mean lengthwise) and remove the seeds. Cut each quarter at an angle into slices that are about half inch thick.

Marinate some chicken pieces (cut Chinese style, into smaller pieces) with salt, pepper, light soya sauce, sesame oil and some sugar for about half hour. We usually use the boney bits of the chicken - ribs, wings, thighs. Heat oil in wok and fry minced garlic (2 -3 cloves), julienned ginger (2 inch segment) and minced black beans (1 T) till aromatic. Add chicken pieces and sliced bitter gourd. Stir-fry for a while and add 3/4 cup water to braise until chicken and bitter gourd are tender and gravy has thickened. Add water to continue braising if mixture gets dry.

You can also use pork ribs as posted by tonkichi instead of chicken pieces. I also like bitter gourd fried with egg that tonckichi mentioned.

This post is making me very hungry.

Edited July 28, 2003 by Shiewie (log)

[mudbug]

Shiewie,

I tried looking for a picture of toong choy online - couldn't find a picture of the vegetable...

There are plenty of pictures online, it just depends on what name and methodology you use to find them.

Here are some sources (click on the links):

Use the Botanical Name (refers to the same plant everywhere in the world)

"Ipomoea aquatica"

Most common Asian names of "kangkong", "ung choy", the list goes on...

Asian Vegetables

[Shiewie]

Shiewie,

I tried looking for a picture of toong choy online - couldn't find a picture of the vegetable...

There are plenty of pictures online, it just depends on what name and methodology you use to find them.

Here are some sources (click on the links):

Use the Botanical Name (refers to the same plant everywhere in the world)

"Ipomoea aquatica"

Most common Asian names of "kangkong", "ung choy", the list goes on...

Asian Vegetables

Err...these are pictures of kangkong also know oong choy, toong sum choy, kong hsin chai meaning hollow / hollow stem vegetable.

The toong choy (could be spelt tung choy - not sure how to spell it as I'm translating from Cantonese) I'm referring to here is preserved and it comes in little brown squares (or long strips). Think it is a preserved version of Napa cabbage.

(Edit - Asked a friend who can read Chinese to help google toong choy in chinese - the Chinese characters read as winter vegetable and it's made from Napa / Tientsin cabbage.)

It would be great if you could help me to find a picture of this preserved toong / tung choy as the little earthern jar hardly shows what it looks like.

Edited July 29, 2003 by Shiewie (log)

[titus wong]

Thanks for all the great info, Shiewie!

Is the tung choy you're talking about, preserved mustard greens ("zha cai" in Mandarin)? Really salty and smelly? The sort of thing they sell in a big plastic tub soaking in brine? I've also seen them wrapped in individual plastic baggies.

Editor's note: Ok, I just checked out the link you provided and saw that tung choy was listed alongside preserved mustard (green), so if you meant to say preserved mustard (zha cai), you probably would have. I'll have to take a look for tung choy when I get off work today.

One last thing, although it ought to be pretty obvious. You do peel the skin from the hairy melon before slicing it, yes?

Edited July 28, 2003 by titus wong (log)

[mudbug]

Titus,

That's what I was wondering. The preserved mustard greens I'm familiar with are like this (Botanical/Latin/Scientific Name = Brassica juncea var. tumida):

But obviously they are different and there are details lost in common cultural names and translation.

Is this a bagged version Shiewie?

[Hest88]

Loved the winter melon in soup that my mom used to make.

Still not old enough, I guess, to like bitter melon. Blech! Come to think of it, I doubt I'll ever be old enough.

Hairy gourd is one of dad's favorites, but again something I find inedible. But then, I can't stand zucchini either.

[bong]

Not chinese, but here are some ways Bengalis (people living in Bengal -- Bangladesh and eastern part of India ) eat bitter melon (the small ones are called "uchhey", the bigger ones are called "korolla" ):

1) Deep Fried.

Slice them up, remove the bigger seeds, deep fry them in oil until they are brown and crisp. Serve with rice and dal (indian lentil soup like thing), usually at the begining of your meal.

2) Stir fried.

Slice them up, and stir fry with potatoes and spices... Serve with rice.

3) Boiled. Needs acquired tatse. I don't like it.

Boil whole in water, along with potatoes. Once soft, peel potatoe, add salt and mustard oil and mash the whole thing up and form a ball. Serve warm with rice.

[titus wong]

bong, thanks for your post. Always nice to hear a different way of doing things.

[Shiewie]

Ok, I just checked out the link you provided and saw that tung choy was listed alongside preserved mustard (green), so if you meant to say preserved mustard (zha cai), you probably would have.  I'll have to take a look for tung choy when I get off work today.

The preserved mustard greens in the link are called "Ham Choy" (salted preseved vegetables) in Cantonese.

.

There is another preserved vegetable called "Char Choy" (similar to Zha Cai in Mandarin?) which is made from kohlrabi. The English translation for it is usually Szechuan preserved vegetable. It's used in Hot and Sour Soup - could this be Zha Cai?

You do peel the skin from the hairy melon before slicing it, yes?

Yes, the hairy melon is peeled before slicing it.

Is this a bagged version Shiewie?

Yes, that looks like tung choy!