Thomas Keller's "Per Se" Pre-Opening Discussion

[stefanyb]

Tony Bourdain just made this info available.  It'll be in the new Columbus Circle ultra/mega/stupendo/mixed use site.  Thats all I know.

[tommy]

this was reported in the NYT a while back, or maybe some other major publication.  if i recall, it will be in the new complex that's being built there.  i'm looking forward to it, as napa is a long drive.

[Fat Guy]

When you say Mr. Bourdain "made this info available," what does that mean? Keller's New York project was announced in Nation's Restaurant News in June and I'm pretty sure I've read about it in other publications. As I understand it he'll have a place in the new Mandarin Oriental hotel Columbus Circle to open in 2003. Has Mr. Bourdain provided additional details somewhere, and if so is it online and do you have a link?

[Rail Paul]

AOL/TimeWarner/CNN is the sponsor and lead tenant of the Columbus Circle property. When they announced the French Laundry, they  said "other major restaurant properties" would be added to their restaurant "row."

Haven't heard about the others yet.

[Fat Guy]

I haven't been saving the press clippings because announcements about restaurant ventures to open two years in the future are so unreliable as to be almost worthless, but as I recall the French Laundry New York branch is slated to be in the Mandarin Oriental hotel within the complex. I also think I read that Jean-Georges Vongerichten will emulate his Las Vegas steakhouse, Prime, somwhere on the property. I haven't seen any other specific restaurant announcements, but I'd be surprised if Mandarin Oriental didn't try to do an Asian fine-dining place with a top Hong Kong chef at the helm; or at least that's what I'd do. But really, given the current investment climate, I'll be amazed if the complex even gets built on schedule -- no less if the promised restaurants actually come to be.

I also think I once read somewhere about Thomas Keller -- the guy who doesn't taste his own dishes -- lambasting chefs who divide their time between more than one restaurant, or maybe I just imagined he'd be the kind of guy to say that. I'm eager to see him open here in New York, though. In my opinion the current French Laundry excels only by the standards of its region and would not rate so highly if transplanted here to New York. The cooking I experienced there was derivative and, though technically excellent, unimpressive from a conceptual standpoint. I also think the French Laundry experience is highly dependent on the setting, which of course could never be replicated here or in any city.

[Andy Lynes]

I have to say as a non NY resident, that I think it's a shame that Keller feels the need to open a second "branch", purely on the basis of resisting global homogenisation.

Having said that, I am pretty excited about having a branch of Charlie Trotter in London, so that makes me totally two faced.    

[Fat Guy]

There's got to be a joke in here about two faces and three nipples, but I can't think of it.

I don't mind if chefs want to have many restaurants, as long as they taste their dishes. At this point, global homogenization -- assuming that homogenization is performed at the hands of Jean-Georges Vongerichten, Alain Ducasse, and the like -- would improve things dramatically. When we have established a certain baseline of good food everywhere, I'll be ready to resist global homogenization, but we're a long way from a state of affairs where any city should say no to Jean-Georges, Ducasse, or even Thomas Keller or Charlie Trotter. So put me in the pro-homogenization camp for the time being.

[Andy Lynes]

But does New york really need Keller as well as Vong, Nobu, Boulud, Portale etc etc etc. How many 3 or 4 star chefs does one town need?

Wouldn't it be better to save the Keller experience for a trip to the West Coast rather than import it to the East? How much sense would Alice Waters make in NY for instance, not a great deal I would bet.

[tommy]

Quote: from Andy Lynes on 5:05 pm on Oct. 15, 2001

But does New york really need Keller as well as Vong, Nobu, Boulud, Portale etc etc etc.

yes, why not?  as i suggest, napa is a long way to go.  jealous? ;)

[Andy Lynes]

Well of course I'm jealous, I live in Brighton and we don't have a restaurant that would even register on the scale.

I think if Keller is going to open anywhere it should be right here by the sea in Brighton. It would make much more sense. Of course, he would go broke in about two weeks, unless he started selling bad pizza and pasta, that goes down a treat round these parts.  

(Edited by Andy Lynes at 10:25 pm on Oct. 15, 2001)

[Fat Guy]

It's possible to dine at every truly excellent fine dining restaurant in New York City in a week. To me, that represents insufficient depth -- and New York is in the top handful of cities in terms of the depth of its restaurants. So yes, I'm willing to look to chefs from elsewhere, foreign or domestic. That's how we get most of our chefs -- indeed most of our population -- anyway. Do we need Keller specifically? Probably not, because his type of food is already obtainable here and I have yet to be convinced that he would contribute any special understanding of service or anything else to the New York restaurant scene. He has already done business here in the past and his former restaurant is less than legendary. I'm quite certain New York would be fine without Todd English as well. But I'm glad we got Ducasse, and Nobu, and a few others. Again, were we knee-deep in fabulousness, I'd consider the benefits of leaving certain experiences to certain places -- but I'm not yet ready to embrace that kind of thinking.

[Andy Lynes]

Of course my anti-homogenisation arguement is so deeply flawed it doesn't stand up to the most casual analysis. No Chinese restaurants outside of China, no French restaurants beyond their own boarders?

It is nonsense, but I do think we should be aware of the erosion of individuality in all of this. I'm not entirely convinced that the way to counteract the McDonalds effect is to replace it with another chain that simply has higher aspirations and charges a #### of a lot more.

     

[Andy Lynes]

Quote: from Fat Guy on 11:15 pm on Oct. 15, 2001

It's possible to dine at every truly excellent fine dining restaurant in New York City in a week.

Yeah! If you're like, a lawyer or something! (Hold on a moment....)

(Edited by Andy Lynes at 11:30 pm on Oct. 15, 2001)

[Fat Guy]

A fat lawyer, to be precise.

[Bux]

I have to say that I really enjoy traveling for the purpose of having a different experience. The shops and products in most cities are already so familiar to those from other cities, as well as those who shop in malls and don't live in cities. Restaurants are getting more similar as is the food they serve. One of the reasons I've been enjoying visits to Spain is that the food still has a greater local character than does that of France. It's boring to travel to Brittany and find as many pizzerias as creperies. On the other hand, at any given time, most of the population is at home and not traveling and commerce is not completely driven by tourism.

Londoners may have no reason to go to Paris, and New Yorkers, no reason to go to London, if things continue as they are, (unlikely, but bear with me for a moment) but those from Brighton will still have reason to travel to London.

When traveling, I'm always drawn between seeking out the greatest food and the most regional food in any area. In great metropolitan centers, I'm not sure if regional exists in the same way it exists in rural and especially agricultural areas.

On the other hand I could be be completely off base. Those who frequent McDonalds tell me they find delight in exploring the differences between the shops in various parts of the world.

[jaybee]

Has anyone heard of plans to open a NY branch of the French Laundry?

[Rachel Perlow]

I read about it A Cook's Tour by Anthony Bourdain, but that's all I know about it. He summed it up by saying that (paraphrasing) Mecca shouldn't come to the people, a large part of the experience is the journey to get there. That wouldn't stop him from going however.

[jordyn]

I've read about this a couple of places, but only passing references. At least one source indicates that Keller views the opening of the New York restaurant is the point at which he'll step aside from every day cooking duties to a more managerial style. (Obviously, to a certain extent, that's inevitable, since he can't cook both places every day.)

Do people have opinions about whether this is likely to effect the quality of the food at either place, or both?

[rich]

Both.

[Suzanne F]

Yes, ages ago when the announcement was made about what what (finally) going to replace the Coliseum. Others are supposed to establish outposts in the same development; sorry I can't find the list right now. Might have been in Nation's Restaurant News and/or others of the trades.

[jordyn]

Others are supposed to establish outposts in the same development; sorry I can't find the list right now.

Lizziee has reported that Ginza Sushi-ko will be one of them.

[Edited to correct spelling.]

[Fat Guy]

There have been several such reports, including in the New York Times. Here's one:

http://www.bizbash.com/content/editorial/e1191.asp

[lizziee]

Others are supposed to establish outposts in the same development; sorry I can't find the list right now.

Lizziee has reported that Ginza Sushi-ko will be one of them.

[Edited to correct spelling.]

Ginza Sushi-ko is definitely going into the AOL Time-Warner building. I spoke with Masa on Saturday night and he is planning on leaving Los Angeles in April, 2003 and hopes for an August opening in New York.

[Rail Paul]

AOL-TW was hoping for a world class restaurant row in their new tower. Five or six destinations.

A this point, they'd be happy keeping their stock above $11 for a few hours, I'd suspect.

Anybody have a clue about their new prow? The original designs showed a fuzzy extension on the southeast corner, a signature element. Looks like the building is set up for something...

[chopjwu12]

i dont think it will effect anything at the french laundry in california. Keller has soux chefs with impecable records and i wouldn't imagine they would let him down in any way, shape, or form.