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Steak


sassybat
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All this means is that sea salts are interesting for their unique textures and not really for the mineral content.

Oops, I wasn't referring to mineral content. :smile:

It wasn't clear in my post, but I was referring to the different flavors that the minerals provide in each. And, yes, I'm aware that component-wise, sea salt and mined salt are the same thing. :smile:

Drink!

I refuse to spend my life worrying about what I eat. There is no pleasure worth forgoing just for an extra three years in the geriatric ward. --John Mortimera

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...Steak to drink.

This makes sense if you've ever had to live with someone who had a broken jaw. :biggrin:

Drink!

I refuse to spend my life worrying about what I eat. There is no pleasure worth forgoing just for an extra three years in the geriatric ward. --John Mortimera

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All this means is that sea salts are interesting for their unique textures and not really for the mineral content.

Oops, I wasn't referring to mineral content. :smile:

It wasn't clear in my post, but I was referring to the different flavors that the minerals provide in each. And, yes, I'm aware that component-wise, sea salt and mined salt are the same thing. :smile:

Right... my point was just that the <2.5% difference in minerals doesn't really make the salts taste different, although it may make them feel different. That said, I am rather inclined to think that the salt processing method plays a greater role in determining the texture of sea salts than the mineral content. The real difference between food-grade salts of any kind is the size, shape and configuration of the salt crystals. It is a textural difference, not a flavor difference.

Understanding the above it becomes clear that using a special sea salt in a dish will not make much of a difference when it is used in a way in which it will dissolve. This is why these salts are typically used after the dish is cooked, and why it doesn't make any sense at all to salt your pasta water or your soup with an expensive sea salt. In your steak example, it strikes me that the different salts won't make any real difference in the flavor of the steak unless they retain their textural element and do not dissolve. Obviously this is not the case for a truly flavored salt like the smoked salt would be different.

--

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Rub both sides with a smashed clove of garlic. Season with coarse salt (sea, kosher, whatever you choose to experiment with) and a small amount of cracked black pepper. Refrigerate for at least 6 hours (or as suggested above, overnight). Remove one hour before cooking and let come to room temp. Cook. Eat. Enjoy.

fanatic...

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These are the proteins partially responsible for Maillard reactions that make browned meat so yummy.

Am I the only person on this thread who doesn't know what Maillard reactions are, or are we afraid to admit ignorance in front of Wolfert and Dave the Science Guy?

Expound, Archie.

And welcome, Wolfert!

(PS. I am in the Tommy school.)

Margaret McArthur

"Take it easy, but take it."

Studs Terkel

1912-2008

A sensational tennis blog from freakyfrites

margaretmcarthur.com

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Am I the only person on this thread who doesn't know what Maillard reactions are, or are we afraid to admit ignorance in front of Wolfert and Dave the Science Guy?

A Maillard reaction happens when the amino acids and sugars in a piece of food that is subjected to heat combine. This causes both browning and the formation of many flavor and aroma compounds. Subjected to further heat, these compounds break down to create even more flavor and aroma compounds. Each type of food has distinctive and unique flavor/aroma compounds that are formed through Maillard reactions.

More information may be found at this page and this other page.

--

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Am I the only person on this thread who doesn't know what Maillard reactions are, or are we afraid to admit ignorance in front of Wolfert and Dave the Science Guy?

A Maillard reaction happens when the amino acids and sugars in a piece of food that is subjected to heat combine. This causes both browning and the formation of many flavor and aroma compounds. Subjected to further heat, these compounds break down to create even more flavor and aroma compounds. Each type of food has distinctive and unique flavor/aroma compounds that are formed through Maillard reactions.

More information may be found at this page and this other page.

Merci, slkinsey. Aware of the phenom, didn't know the chemical term.

My Pisco Sour: Looking forward to the demo tomorow. I'm all a'twitter.

Edited by maggiethecat (log)

Margaret McArthur

"Take it easy, but take it."

Studs Terkel

1912-2008

A sensational tennis blog from freakyfrites

margaretmcarthur.com

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elise E   welcome wolfert

Thanks for your kind welcome.

I just read your "bio"

You go girl!

Edited by Wolfert (log)

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

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I only marinate Flank Steak. Usually in an Asian marinade - garlic, ginger, green onion, honey, black pepper, soy, vegetable oil and rice wine vinegar. Always comes out nice - especially when grilled.

johnjohn

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I like to marinate steak in a mixture of sesame oil, soy sauce, brown sugar, ground ginger, garlic powder, and black pepper. I don't like garlic powder, as a rule, but the first time I grilled a steak successfully, I used this recipe and it turned out so well that I give it cabinet space just for this recipe. I think the soy sauce tenderizes it (just read that in CI) as someone else mentioned. I've used the cheapest steaks at the store for this recipe and it never turns out to be tough. I've also tried it on some nice T-bones. My, my, my! Great steak! Leftovers, if there are any, are great in fried rice.

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I apologize if I offended you.

I hope a smile will halt any approaching frown.

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

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I cook tender steak cuts over a very, very hot lump charcoal fire, at least to start. Anything other that salt just gets burned so I don't use it. Even tougher cuts like flank or skirt I cook fairly hot and still only use salt. Flavorings like pepper or herb butter get added afterwards. You can do a lot more with skirt steak than just make fajitas.

Jim

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Personally, I don't really understand people's dislike of cuts like flank, skirt and hanger. In many ways they're my favorites - incredibly flavorful and with an intensity that is wonderful to work with. The idea that these steaks need to be marinated or tenderized or in some way "hidden" in order to be palatable seems very odd to me.

Edited by malachi (log)

fanatic...

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Dave:

You are absolutely right.

Though this method does deliver a very tasty crust.  Perhaps the grapeseed oil which smokes at a much higher temperature than other oils has something to do with it. I'd love to know your thoughts .

I wanted to track down an Alton Brown item before I replied. I finally found it on page 50 of I'm Just Here For the Food. Rather than paraphrase, I think I can get away with an attributed quote:

...by heavily salting the meat several minutes before cooking, water-soluble proteins had a chance to gather at the surface of the steak. As it turned out, they were all I needed to produce great color, nice grill marks, and no sticking. I won't be oiling my steaks anymore.

Now, he doesn't mention crust per se, but AB fans will queue up to testify to his affection for things crusty.

Since reading this, I have refrained from oiling, just to see if he's right. I get everything else: color, quadrillage and release. But I don't get much of a crust (except on the grill marked areas, unless the steak has been treated with a marinade of some sort. And then, it's probably sugars in the marinade that are crusting, not sugars in the meat proteins.

To further confuse things, I still do oil meat if it's going to be pan-roasted, to ensure good heat transfer between the meat and the pan surface. In these cases, I do get crustage. But I can't draw any conclusions. Two different applications, two different treatments.

Finally, we have a theory that high smoke-point oils develop better crusts than their less temperate brethren. This seems counter-intuitive to me -- think about pan-fried chicken or frites, where low-smoke-point oils like shortening and lard promote crust formation better than highly refined oils. On the other hand, this is in association with large volumes of complex carbohydrates, not the relatively small (but obviously still significant) quantites of sugar bound up in protein.

I couldn't find any theory that attempted to explain how smoke point might affect crust formation. The only possibility that occurs to me is that applied high-smoke-point fat acts as an insulator, allowing the surface protein to dehydrate more fully without overcooking it. A low-smoke fat would burn instead. And no fat at all would let the meat overcook.

The outlines of an experiment seem pretty clear. We test for the difference in crust between oiled and unoiled (but salted) meat, then between different types of oil. Then we might need to test some oils against salted only. FInally, we would need to test grapeseed oil against another high-smoke-point oil, like safflower or avocado, to make sure there's not something particular in grapeseed oil (perhaps free fatty acid content, or mono/polyunsaturated balance) that creates the effect.

I figure I need 24 each 1-1/2-inch thick strip sirloins to conduct the experiment. I'm willing to do the cooking and eating, if someone else will contribute the meat.

Dave Scantland
Executive director
dscantland@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics signatory

Eat more chicken skin.

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DO NOT touch my steak with anything except kosher salt and freshly ground black pepper.

Butter.

"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

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Dave:

You are absolutely right.

Though this method does deliver a very tasty crust.  Perhaps the grapeseed oil which smokes at a much higher temperature than other oils has something to do with it. I'd love to know your thoughts .

I wanted to track down an Alton Brown item before I replied. I finally found it on page 50 of I'm Just Here For the Food. Rather than paraphrase, I think I can get away with an attributed quote:

...by heavily salting the meat several minutes before cooking, water-soluble proteins had a chance to gather at the surface of the steak. As it turned out, they were all I needed to produce great color, nice grill marks, and no sticking. I won't be oiling my steaks anymore.

Now, he doesn't mention crust per se, but AB fans will queue up to testify to his affection for things crusty.

Since reading this, I have refrained from oiling, just to see if he's right. I get everything else: color, quadrillage and release. But I don't get much of a crust (except on the grill marked areas, unless the steak has been treated with a marinade of some sort. And then, it's probably sugars in the marinade that are crusting, not sugars in the meat proteins.

To further confuse things, I still do oil meat if it's going to be pan-roasted, to ensure good heat transfer between the meat and the pan surface. In these cases, I do get crustage. But I can't draw any conclusions. Two different applications, two different treatments.

Finally, we have a theory that high smoke-point oils develop better crusts than their less temperate brethren. This seems counter-intuitive to me -- think about pan-fried chicken or frites, where low-smoke-point oils like shortening and lard promote crust formation better than highly refined oils. On the other hand, this is in association with large volumes of complex carbohydrates, not the relatively small (but obviously still significant) quantites of sugar bound up in protein.

I couldn't find any theory that attempted to explain how smoke point might affect crust formation. The only possibility that occurs to me is that applied high-smoke-point fat acts as an insulator, allowing the surface protein to dehydrate more fully without overcooking it. A low-smoke fat would burn instead. And no fat at all would let the meat overcook.

The outlines of an experiment seem pretty clear. We test for the difference in crust between oiled and unoiled (but salted) meat, then between different types of oil. Then we might need to test some oils against salted only. FInally, we would need to test grapeseed oil against another high-smoke-point oil, like safflower or avocado, to make sure there's not something particular in grapeseed oil (perhaps free fatty acid content, or mono/polyunsaturated balance) that creates the effect.

I figure I need 24 each 1-1/2-inch thick strip sirloins to conduct the experiment. I'm willing to do the cooking and eating, if someone else will contribute the meat.

i love your posts.

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