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TDG: Into the Mouths of Babes


Fat Guy
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As to the milk/corn syrup thing.  Remember, this was back in the days when women were not admonished to quit drinking or smoking, and we encouraged to gain as little weight as possible.

Oh, God, the diet my mother kept herself on when she was pregnant with twins! She weighed ten pounds less than her supermodel weight after delivery.

Marlboros and martinis. Many of us were carried to term on these.

(Yes, I smoke. And I like martinis!)

My mom was 17years old, 4 feet 10 inches tall, and 96 lbs. The doctor told her to " drink Milk, two full cups a day". So, whe would have a cup in the morning, then smoke cigarettes ( and smoke...whatever) and eat a few cookies or chips, waiting for her high school frineds to come over after school let out..then, she would spend the afternoon drinking vodka and tonic, or beer...then whatever dinner her and my father could cook..and a glass of milk before bed. And, later when my sister and I were pregnant, she was SO PROUD of how well she followed doctor's order's, and wondered why we were so "crazy" about caffeine, alcohol and such. " Just drink two glasses of milk" she insisted!

Edited by Kim WB (log)
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Well, after Tyler was born and the requisite period of time had passed before resuming sex... there we were. And there I was.... Confronted by two marvelous breasts nearly filled with milk and nipples nearly the size of thimbles. I couldn't resist. Sweetness is how I remember it.

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As to the milk/corn syrup thing.  Remember, this was back in the days when women were not admonished to quit drinking or smoking, and we encouraged to gain as little weight as possible.

Oh, God, the diet my mother kept herself on when she was pregnant with twins! She weighed ten pounds less than her supermodel weight after delivery.

Marlboros and martinis. Many of us were carried to term on these.

(Yes, I smoke. And I like martinis!)

My mom was 17years old, 4 feet 10 inches tall, and 96 lbs. The doctor told her to " drink Milk, two full cups a day". So, whe would have a cup in the morning, then smoke cigarettes ( and smoke...whatever) and eat a few cookies or chips, waiting for her high school frineds to come over after school let out..then, she would spend the afternoon drinking vodka and tonic, or beer...then whatever dinner her and my father could cook..and a glass of milk before bed. And, later when my sister and I were pregnant, she was SO PROUD of how well she followed doctor's order's, and wondered why we were so "crazy" about caffeine, alcohol and such. " Just drink two glasses of milk" she insisted!

I love stories like this. For me, the worst part of pregnancy was the paranoia. I thought I was doing great by cutting out alcohol, caffeine, Nutrasweet and blue cheese. Now they're saying tuna has too much mercury, deli turkey is a listeria risk and that eating flaxseed is bad because of its estrogenic properties.

Rachel, the fat content of breastmilk is not always higher than cream. The components of breast milk correspond to what the baby needs. When the baby first starts nursing, the consistency is somewhat watery and low fat. Towards the end of the feeding, the baby gets what's called "hind milk" which is probably higher in fat than cream and a little sweeter. Baby dessert!

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Rachel, the fat content of breastmilk is not always higher than cream.  The components of breast milk correspond to what the baby needs.  When the baby first starts nursing, the consistency is somewhat watery and low fat.  Towards the end of the feeding, the baby gets what's called "hind milk" which is probably higher in fat than cream and a little sweeter.  Baby dessert!

And, depending on what stage of gestation at which the baby is born, the milk composition also varies. Heidi was a preemie (not by much) and they strongly urged moms of preemies to breastfeed (or pump and feed) because the milk contains things that can aid in development (like lungs) that would normally occur in utero. Miraculous stuff.

Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"
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I had no idea that formula contained so much sugar.

thanks maggie.

I was breastfed...my father was breastfed by a wet nurse and his mother...she pointed out to my mother that breastfeeding was the way to keep the post-preggers weight off.

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my father was breastfed by a wet nurse and his mother...she pointed out to my mother that breastfeeding was the way to keep the post-preggers weight off.

Ah..you southern aristocrats!

The weight reduction/maintenance advantage is something I've never researched. It didn't work for me, but again, I was a nursing short-timer.

Empirically, my neice was back in her size six jeans in an amazingly short time postpartum. Without dieting. Based solely on her example, I'm a believer.

Margaret McArthur

"Take it easy, but take it."

Studs Terkel

1912-2008

A sensational tennis blog from freakyfrites

margaretmcarthur.com

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Breastfeeding burns 300-600 calories a day. Most people I know who breastfed, lost all their pregnancy weight quickly. In my case, I ate more than ever and lost so much weight I was thinner than I was prior to pregnancy in a matter of weeks. A few people have said it caused them to gain weight. My guess is that the people who gained weight while breastfeeding did so because they ate much more than an extra 300-600 calories a day. That's an easy thing to do when you're a lactating mother -- breastfeeding makes you really, really hungry.

Edited by claire797 (log)
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Not many people are focusing on the point of Maggie's article: this stuff tastes awful. There are a lot of reasons why formula feeding might be necessary, but is it likewise necessary that the formula itself be execrable?

I wonder why the industry doesn't seem to care. Pan's comments not withstanding, I find it incredible that a more acceptable analogue to human milk hasn't been, or can't be, developed. The pet food industry spends millions of dollars to assure pet owners that what they feed their dog or cat is ostensibly fit, even delectable, for humans. No such effort is made by manufacturers of baby formula.

Is there an assumption on the part of manufacturers that grown-ups don't taste this stuff? Or if they do, that actual taste is a secondary consideration? Do manufacturers perceive squeamishness on the part of new parents (especially mothers; I'd bet that they make this choice most of the time)? If such unease exists, why? And is it why formula producers can get away with selling a product that fails the taste test?

We've got bunch of people on this thread who have tasted human milk, but besides Maggie, no one else has tried formula. Does that strike anyone else as strange? To stretch the pet analogy a bit further, I know a lot of pet owners who have tasted the food they give their pets. Are there formula parents on eG who could add to this topic?

Dave Scantland
Executive director
dscantland@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics signatory

Eat more chicken skin.

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We've got bunch of people on this thread who have tasted human milk, but besides Maggie, no one else has tried formula. Does that strike anyone else as strange? To stretch the pet analogy a bit further, I know a lot of pet owners who have tasted the food they give their pets. Are there formula parents on eG who could add to this topic?

I have tried formula, and didn't find it to be that bad. My son drinks Enfamil Lipil, which is the new variety with added DHA and ARA. I felt that if he was going to drink it, then I should be willing to try it. The enhanced formula seems to taste better than the regular stuff.

Heather Johnson

In Good Thyme

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My son drinks Enfamil Lipil, which is the new variety with added DHA and ARA.

Thanks, Heather. What are DHA and ARA?

From their website:

DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) and ARA (arachidonic acid), important building blocks of a baby's brain and eyes

These are present in breast milk, and have been used in Europe for several years. They have only been added to US formula within the last year or so - after lengthy review by the FDA. The formula companies charge premium prices for the varieties that have DHA and ARA added, guaranteeing that only kids whose parents have more income will get the added nutrients.

Heather Johnson

In Good Thyme

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Not many people are focusing on the point of Maggie's article: this stuff tastes awful. There are a lot of reasons why formula feeding might be necessary, but is it likewise necessary that the formula itself be execrable?

Execrable? I prefer the term "yucky" :raz:

I guess when you load a product with chemicals, vitamins, minerals etc. you get an aftertaste. Think about products like Total cereal, Carnation instant breakfast and Flinstones chewables. They all taste funky no matter how hard manufacturers try to improve the taste. I like Total, but I can still "taste" the added vitamins.

When they can take the nasty vitamin flavor out of other super-fortified foods, then maybe they'll go to work on baby formula. However, at this very moment, there are millions of babies all over the world happily sloshing down formula and asking for more.

Anyway, I don't find formula to be all that vile. It's not any worse than Ensure, Isomil or other supplements.

Edited by claire797 (log)
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For the record, powdered milk is vile. I think she's making this up. But it's an angle I haven't already seen posted. I'm also feeling a bit betrayed. For added context, this would be 1971.

"At three months you became a bottle baby, originally with Carnation,

water, and corn syrup. But you gained like 4 or 4 1/2 pounds in one

month. The doctor said that was way too much and had me switch you to

powdered milk. Which you drank happily."

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From Johns Hopkins Magazine, regarding how the sense of taste changes over time:

Unlike smell, taste holds up well, according to research by James Wieffenbach, an NIH researcher who has collaborated with Leopold in studying patients at Hopkins's Gerontology Research Center. "Taste is amazingly robust with age," says Wieffenbach. Studying 170 subjects over 10 years, he found only insignificant losses in their ability to detect sour, bitter, or salty tastes, and no loss in tasting sweetness. For weak and diluted flavors, oldsters actually prove more sensitive than the young.

Complete article here.

Dave Scantland
Executive director
dscantland@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics signatory

Eat more chicken skin.

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  • 11 months later...
Maggie, I just don't think this case can truly be closed until such time as you taste real breast milk and post a follow-up report.

(My first post) I agree! And you should be aware that there is "fore milk" and "hind milk", the hind milk is thicker and fattier than the fore milk so it's a little sweeter.

What an interesting article.

p.s. the hubbie loves B-milk

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  • 2 weeks later...

The nurse who talked to us about breast-feeding at the hospital just before we went home with our boy told us that the more varied the mothers diet when breast feeding, the wider the range of tastes the child would have later on. Which suggests that the taste of breast milk can vary quite a bit depending on what the mother is eating.

My wife ate lots of different foods while nursing, and our child never objected to the taste of the milk (not even post-chilli), and at seven months he's enjoyed everything he's tasted which isn't breast milk. Then again he spends a lot of time trying trying to eat the TV remote control, so I'm not claiming he's a gourmet baby or anything.

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Then again he spends a lot of time trying trying to eat the TV remote control, so I'm not claiming he's a gourmet baby or anything.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Michael aka "Pan"

 

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Maggie, I just don't think this case can truly be closed until such time as you taste real breast milk and post a follow-up report.

(My first post) I agree! And you should be aware that there is "fore milk" and "hind milk", the hind milk is thicker and fattier than the fore milk so it's a little sweeter.

What an interesting article.

p.s. the hubbie loves B-milk

Welcome to eGullet, PoetsGirl. In fact, I am still looking for an opportunity to try breast molk, but short of carrying a breast pump on my person and soliciting strangers, my sources have, er, dried up.

But I have a (different) neice who's giving birth around Thanksgiving...

Margaret McArthur

"Take it easy, but take it."

Studs Terkel

1912-2008

A sensational tennis blog from freakyfrites

margaretmcarthur.com

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Maggie, I just don't think this case can truly be closed until such time as you taste real breast milk and post a follow-up report.

(My first post) I agree! And you should be aware that there is "fore milk" and "hind milk", the hind milk is thicker and fattier than the fore milk so it's a little sweeter.

What an interesting article.

p.s. the hubbie loves B-milk

Welcome to eGullet, PoetsGirl. In fact, I am still looking for an opportunity to try breast molk, but short of carrying a breast pump on my person and soliciting strangers, my sources have, er, dried up.

But I have a (different) neice who's giving birth around Thanksgiving...

Well I would donate, but as the kid is now 16 mos. old, (I know some people think this is way out of bounds,) the bod is regulated to drop milk at precisely the same time every day - bedtime. The pump was retired about 6 mos, ago. I really would if I thought I had the extra milk, which is why your probably going to need a pretty new mom, that's when there's a lot of "extra". You might try Le Leche League, their website will route you to a local group. You could envite the uninhibited nursing mommies to come visit eGullet; one may offer to donate.

Still, if I were you, I'd wait for your neice. That way you won't have any "emotional" issues to deal with. You know, like a who's body am consuming type of thing.

A confession: I've never had the balls to taste it myself; what is with that?

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I've never had the balls to taste it myself; what is with that?

I've tasted mine, I agree it's sort of like sweet slightly vanilla milk. It seems more complicated and layered in flavor than cow's milk.

One other thing about the taste/smell of formula versus human milk -- the poops! Human milk-fed babies diapers don't really smell bad at all (until they start solids).

I know poop isn't normally a topic on egullet but when you're dealing with babies and what goes IN on a daily basis, you also have to consider what comes out since you're up close with it during diaper changes.

-Oregano

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My son drinks Enfamil Lipil, which is the new variety with added DHA and ARA.

Thanks, Heather. What are DHA and ARA?

From their website:

DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) and ARA (arachidonic acid), important building blocks of a baby's brain and eyes

These are present in breast milk, and have been used in Europe for several years. They have only been added to US formula within the last year or so - after lengthy review by the FDA. The formula companies charge premium prices for the varieties that have DHA and ARA added, guaranteeing that only kids whose parents have more income will get the added nutrients.

I believe that DHA and ARA are present in fish oils (as well as breast milk). I seem to remember some evolutionary biologist on TV being excited because humans synthesized something that starts, in the food chain, in the ocean. His excitement was something to do with the origin of human intelligence begining with the eating of fish. Otters and Dolphins, who seem keen-eyed and brainy, also eat a lot of fish, and as did Jeeves (the super-brainy gentleman's gentleman of fiction).

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Very sweet. More of a caramel or dulce de leche (heh heh) flavor as opposed to vanilla. So sweet that my husband wanted to know why the bedroom floor had gotten sticky...

The fat and sugar (and probably other things) varies with the baby's age, maturity, etc. If you want to compare the butterfat, pump some breastmilk and let it sit in the fridge until the "cream" separates. Based on my eyeball retrospective comparison to unhomogenized milk from my grandmother's Jerseys and Guernseys many years ago, not too different percentage-wise. The "skim milk" portion seemed a bit less opaque, so it may be more of a question of water-soluble things like protein and sugars.

I have to say that I found the whole condensed milk story frankly horrifying. But then my mother nursed us all three in the face of frank hostility from the medicaul community at the time.

If you have to choose among formula, cigarettes, and martinis, go for the martinis (beyond the first trimester, and in moderation).

Can you pee in the ocean?

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  • 3 months later...

I breastfed my daughter exclusively for seven months, then we started giving her a little solid food every day (but she wasn't very interested, so breastmilk continued to be her main food). Yesterday she turned eight months old, and today she had formula for the first time. I went back to work yesterday (I'm a school librarian), Matthew gave her the last of the pumped frozen milk, and I decided not to pump any more. So last night we read the formula can carefully, Matthew mixed it up, and filled the bottles. He tasted it and said, "She's not going to like this." It's enriched with iron, and you can really taste it.

I was a little anxious at school today wondering how she would feel about the cruel deception: looks like milk, in the same bottle as milk, tastes like... what? So I was surprised but relieved when Matthew reported that she guzzled down the formula without seeming to notice anything different. My plan is to continue breastfeeding after school, in the morning, and on weekends. I hope this will work for us.

While I have sworn to myself that I won't go around giving unsolicited advice on childrearing and breastfeeding, I do want to strongly advocate for breastfeeding, which started off as the most difficult, painful experience of my life, but became both very pleasant and probably the most satisfying experience of my life. I would be glad to share books, tips, resources on breastfeeding if anyone wants to PM me.

The satisfying part is that I could look at this six-month-old baby girl and know that I created every single bit of her! Wouldn't you be proud?

i12132.jpg

Hungry Monkey May 2009
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