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I hate sweet and meat.


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Then can you eat Thai food? It has sweet, spicy, sour, savory flavors all at once?

Bingo.

Thai food, Vietnamese food and even some decent Chinese food all combine tastes, including BOTH savory and sweet.

I don't want to piss off my old friend Jinny :raz:, but sometimes meat needs something done to it, or even better... something to contrast with it. Not all of the time (for example, my favorite preparation for Pork Chops is simply Salt and Pepper), but sometimes.

I'm not all about the Prunes and the Apricot glazes though. But something sweet in the same bite--something that's not invasively slathered all over the meat, but which can be taken on the same fork... that can sometimes work.

Jon Lurie, aka "jhlurie"

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Not all of the time (for example, my favorite preparation for Pork Chops is simply Salt and Pepper), but sometimes.

uh, duh. applesauce? jeesh.

The best applesauce to have with Salt and Pepper Pan-Fried Pork Chops is unsweetened. So its not that sweet, especially if you use tart apples.

Plus, I wouldn't eat Pork and Apples in the same bite--maybe in successive bites but not the same one.

(Jinmyo is shuddering at the thought of Apples and Pork on the same plate, muchless in the same bite... so I'd better stop)

Edited by jhlurie (log)

Jon Lurie, aka "jhlurie"

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I've never had sticky fruit on my duck, but I will take a dried cranberry or cherry out of the pilaf and pair them myself.

Are we also talking about keeping cranberry sauce separate from the turkey?

Howard, if you've never had snickers duck, you haven't lived!

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Are we also talking about keeping cranberry sauce separate from the turkey? 

Cranberry sauce and turkey is an exception for me, and I'm not sure why. That said, I can't stand the overly-sweet cranberry sauce many folks seem to prefer; I make a tasty agrodolce version during the holidays that's got the right sweet/tart balance.

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Right now, as symptomatic relief for horrible allergies, I'm having roast chicken curry noodle soup, with coconut milk in it. There you go: A mixture of spicy, sweet, and salty.

I love tagines, I love Chinese red pork, I love having sweet potatoes with roast chicken, and I also often enjoy sauces that are sweet by virtue of the sugar in the wine. I also love chicken with mole sauce, and tomato sauce is frequently sweet from the tomatoes, so bistecca alla pizzaiola is essentially steak with a moderately sweet sauce. Sweetness can be done to excess and frequently is, but no way would I throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There used to be a Thai restaurant in my neighborhood that wasn't a great restaurant but made one great dish: Whole red snapper with a sauce that included slices of ripe mango, lime juice, fish sauce, hot pepper, and whole cashew nuts. I miss it.

Michael aka "Pan"

 

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Cranberry sauce and turkey is an exception for me

A-ha!

Suzanne F Posted on May 16 2003, 05:35 PM

I prefer it punctuated thus:

Howard, if you've never had snickers, duck! You haven't lived. 

But... that would be just a snickers bar. And THAT would be off topic, dear.

Edited by elyse (log)
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I think more than considering whether something sweet goes with something meat, look at the texture and overall color of the dish.

With what's in season, the heartiness of Venison Loin with a Cider Reduced Glaze can be fantastic. There's taste, aroma, everything to consider. What's more, if you're paring wine, think of the sweet clarity of an Alsace white to cut through a nice herb or prominent flavor in the dish.

It might be textural, too. The sinews and striations in the muscle might give a terrible mouthfeel when combined with something sweet, yet in certain instances, I'd venture to think that a really nicely caramelized piece of pork would itself blend its sugars nicely with fruit.

Think of nuts. Think of the combination of Salty and sweet with something like Kettle or Caramel Corn. Honey Roasted Peanuts? They have similar body at times to meat, but I think that it might be worth looking into to try to find a nice balance, or possibly add something to a dish to try to cut the stark difference that your palate feels between sweet and the girth of a meat base.

I'm still stuck on the textural thing. With something such as Prosciutto e Melone, or Duck ham and a Grilled Pear, for example, would it be texture, saltiness, or the idea of meat itself that gets in the way of full enjoyment?

What about Cheese and Fruit?

Cheese and Honey?

I'm interested to find out how your palate works.

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What about Cheese and Fruit?

Hmmmmm. The more posts I read on this thread, the more I feel the need to rethink the topic a bit. I still assert that I will never meet a "sweet" chicken salad I'd like, however, I readily admit to finding great pleasure in the classic cheese/fruit combination -- especially with the addition of a cured meat. Of late, I've been stuffing Black Mission figs with Fourme d'Ambert and then wrapping the whole with prosciutto. Quite something, that.

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I'm curious, Smarmotron:  what do you do with/for/about vegetables with a sizable sugar component, like Vidalia onions or yams?

:smile:

Ok, I guess I enjoy yams (but I do not eat them with meat). Nor do I eat my cranberries with turkey, I have them as more of a side dish.

And I hate honey mustard too!

I tend not to like Thai food so much, either (but I am allergic to coconut so that may be part of it)

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I suppose I have the most plebian palate here, as I like sweat/meat combinations. I really like fried chicken dipped in honey. I like pork chops with an apricot stuffing, I like honey mustard, I like grapes in chicken salad (not always, but sometimes), I eat cranberry sauce with bites of turkey.

I think whoever said it's about balance was right. However, I do think my palate is somewhat askew as I become obsessed with getting the sweet/savory balance right in every bite.

What about milkshakes and hamburgers, or a Coke and a burger? Those aren't in the same bite but I think the sweetness is an essential foil for full enjoyment of a burger and fries.

Jennie

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Suzanne F Posted on May 16 2003, 05:35 PM

I prefer it punctuated thus:

Howard, if you've never had snickers, duck! You haven't lived. 

But... that would be just a snickers bar. And THAT would be off topic, dear.

Yeah, I know, but I couldn't resist. Even though I should have. :rolleyes:

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I've been away for a few days and, while catching up, I had a great interest in this thread. My first inclination was to post a "yes... I hate it too". However, now that I have read through it, I don't think that is true. I guess the ketchup/hamburger (or fries) tipped me over the edge. But I still don't like raisins in my picadillo!

Linda LaRose aka "fifi"

"Having spent most of my life searching for truth in the excitement of science, I am now in search of the perfectly seared foie gras without any sweet glop." Linda LaRose

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I agree with fifi, this is a fascinating camp

I would fall firmly into the sweet camp. "honey-roasted" or, even better "crispy honey-roasted" is one of the most beautiful combinations of words in the culinary lexicon (although "cut-price foie gras" runs its quite close ;-) ). I was quite surprised, however, how much opinions were polarised on this thread!

Anyhow, more seriously I gather the sweet-meat (also called "sweet and sour/aigre-doux" by the french, although I never figured out why as there doesn't seem to be much sour!) is one of the oldest combinations in cookery. A lot of medieval dishes in europe seemed to pair fruit with meat, leading to classical combinations like duck a l'orange. Because of that it's sometimes seen as "unsophisticated" (though none the less yummy for it).

I presume there is a serious explanation eg fruit cutting through the richness of meat (ie foie gras with peach/raison/grape/orange &tc &tc)

The chinese have been doing the sweet-meat thing a long time. One famous old dish is a lamb with with a sweet sauce whose name literally tranlsates into "its like honey" - apparently what the first thing the empress exclaimed when she was served it. Other classical favourites - honey roast pork, sweet & sour, pork with lychees (never quite got this one)

By the bye, the first haute cuisine dish i had was roast suckling pig with apricots at raymond blancs in the uk. it was on the twenty five quid cut-price lunch and was startlingly good.

More Cookbooks than Sense - my new Cookbook blog!
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Jon:

Does the pork with star anise dish that I got in Wuxi qualify for a sweet and salty meat? I think that star anise gives a sweetness to a dish. Yes, it was a great meal.

Michael aka "Pan"

 

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Morning, Pan

Yes, I think that wuxi pork (is this the ribs, right?) counts as salt-sweet, though I think the sweetness comes from sugar rather than fruit (could be wrong on this one)

My mum does braised spare ribs with star anise and soy sauce too; think it maybe a northern recipe, although she has lived in hk too so I could be wrong on this one. I think there are shreds of spring onion in it too. It ends up slightly sweet, melting and not that salty at all (think soy sauce diluted with stock)

by the by the cuisine of the whole shanghai/wuxi/anhui region is known in china for its use of sweetness with meat; the dishes tend to be slightly heavier and sweeter than other areas. Think they use a lot of shaoxing rice wine too (very nice but as only 20% no use for hard drinking ;-) )

cheerio

J

More Cookbooks than Sense - my new Cookbook blog!
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The name of the dish is escaping me, but I cooked it for an ex-girlfriend of mine. She loved it and thereafter referred to me as "sweet meat". When she called me that in front of others, I'd look around for the intrigued expressions on their faces.

Al Dente's Sweet Meat

Pork Tenderloin Medallions pounded out to an inch thick

Prosciutto

Fresh Sage

Toothpicks

Sherry or Madeira or whatever sweetish fortified wine you might dig

Slap a sage leaf or two on top of the medallion, cover it with a slice of prosciutto, lace a toothpick through to hold in place. Sear it on both sides, finish in oven if necessary, and deglaze pan with the wine until syrupy.

Voila, sweet meat. Actually, I'm cooking for a woman I've recently met tonight... it worked last time, might as well give it a go...

If you had used veal it would be saltimbocca - consider it a variation....

pound both meats flat and put one on top of the other, and it's something bolognese (according to e. david, i think). actually one of the few occasions where i find myself sometimes using turkey breast in stead of veal.

edit: saltimboche are rolls. i'm not sure if the authentic sort has parmesan in it?

Edited by oraklet (log)

christianh@geol.ku.dk. just in case.

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I always thought the real reason for pairing duck or pork with friut was because most fruit has an acid component to it, which counters the fat in the meats. For that matter, most steak sauces have some fruit element in them, such as raisins.

I'm no longer fond of mint jelly with lamb, but a good mint sauce is nice.

And don't a lot of brines used for brining poultry or pork have some sugar in them, along with the salt? (Brining is new for me, but the pork chops from last Thursday were wonderful after I gave them the treatment.)

My partner, Bruce, insists on Crispy Lemon Duck every time we drop by our favorite Chinese restaurant. And he loves Sweet and Sour anything, if we're at a Chinese restaurant other than our favorite.

We'll not discriminate great from small.

No, we'll serve anyone - meaning anyone -

And to anyone at all!

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Last weekend at Le Relais in Louisville, I had Muscovy Duck with an ice grape reduction... certainly not too cloying. They used veal stock reduction as well, and I tasted cloves as well. CWS is right--it has to be done with skill.

Mint jelly should be banned, period.

I will eat figs with anything.

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