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trillium

Grenadine

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Does anyone have any pointers on tracking down a decent dry French grenadine? If not, has anyone successfully used pomegranate molassas as a substitute? Warmer weather is surely just around the corner (please oh please) and I have a hankering floriditas and mai tais.

regards,

trillium

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I think the Trader Vic's brand is made with real pomegranate juice, unlike Rose's. I wouldn't use pomegranate molassas though - that will give your drinks a darker, "cooked" flavor. Or Torani makes a pomegranate syrup.

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Pomagranate Molasses is defenitly not interchangable with Grenadine Syrup. The first is a middle eastern tangy ingredient while the second one is sweet and tastes nothing like the molasses. I use the molasses only for savory dishes or sometimes as a substitute for lemon juice or balsamic to give a dish a different -and delicious- flavor.

FM

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Um, in my experience, pomegranate molassas tastes nothing like molassas either. The one I had before was a dark, dark red and very thick and tangy. Is there a lot of variability in these products? I think the one I used to have was made by Indo-European foods. The original grenadine syrup was a syrup made from pomegranate juice and sugar, cooked down until it was a syrup. This sounds suspiciously like something very close to pomegranate molassas to me. I don't want something that tastes like Rose's grenadine (blech). I drank something really tasty (and tangy) in Italy that I think was made by Bols and went by the name of grenadine but I'm having trouble finding it. Perhaps I'll have to experiment making my own with canned pomegrante juice.

regards,

trillium

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Um, in my experience, pomegranate molassas tastes nothing like molassas either.  The one I had before was a dark, dark red and very thick and tangy.  Is there a lot of variability in these products?  I think the one I used to have was made by Indo-European foods.  The original grenadine syrup was a syrup made from pomegranate juice and sugar, cooked down until it was a syrup.  This sounds suspiciously like something very close to pomegranate molassas to me. I don't want something that tastes like Rose's grenadine (blech).    I drank something really tasty (and tangy) in Italy that I think was made by Bols and went by the name of grenadine but I'm having trouble finding it.  Perhaps I'll have to experiment making my own with canned pomegrante juice.

regards,

trillium

"..second one is sweet and tastes nothing like the molasses"

Sorry for not being clearer, I meant the Grenadine tastes nothing like the Pomegranate molasses (PM) not your average everyday American molasses.

You are correct though the PM is very different than regular molasses which I believe is a by-product of sugar making (correct me if I'm wrong). The PM on the other hand is made from the juice of sour Pomegranates that is reduced down slowly over a low heat. It has a dark color a thick consistency. Very similar to Balsamic Vinegar in color and texture. It is pretty tangy with a mildly sweet undertone. The only reason I know this is because my grandmother (in Lebanon) makes this stuff and has made it all her life, actually the half bottle I have at home is from a batch she made about 2 yrs ago!!! time to order some more :smile:

FM

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Lucky, lucky you! I hope you're also getting green wheat and olive oil from Lebanon, what a treat. Do you know how your grandmother makes her pomegranate molassas? The recipes I've read for grenadine are here and here. It seems to me that old-fashioned grenadine might taste a lot like pomegranate molassas, unless other things are added to the PM which I'm not aware of. Maybe grenadine is cooked for a shorter time? The only other difference I can think of is that grenadine is made with a different type of pomegranate than PM.

regards,

trillium

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The only other difference I can think of is that grenadine is made with a different type of pomegranate than PM.

That is true, PM is made with very sour Pomegranates. Also it has absolutely no sugar added as far as I know. Just pure reduced sour Pomagranate juice, but I can ask her next time I call to be sure. I do get Olive oil once in a while as well as jams, preserves, cheeses and zaatar but green wheat!!!???, nope. Where have u seen green wheat and what is it used for?

FM

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For a good source of different brands of pomegranate juice and pomegranate molasses, try Kalustyans, a terrific source for Middle Eastern and Indian foods in New York City. They do mail order (800/352-3451).

Both Claudia Roden and Sonia Uvezian have written very interesting passages about pomegranates in their books, and I know that Uvezian, at least, provides a recipe for pomegranate molasses. She advises the addition of lemon juice if you can only get (American) sweet pomegranates.... Both are wonderful writers and give you a good sense of the culture and history....I highly recommend both:

** Uvezian, Sonia. Recipes and Remembrances from an Eastern Mediterranean Kitchen: A Culinary Journey Through Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. Austin, Texas: University of Texas Press, 1999.

** Roden, Claudia. The New Book of Middle Eastern Food. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1968, 1972, 1985, 2000.

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Forgot to add this for sources for pomegranate molasses. Matthew Kenney and Joan Schwartz include pages of resources in their new "Big City Cooking." (San Francisco: Chronicle Books, 2003)

POMEGRANATE MOLASSES Pomegranate juice reduced to a sweet syrup.

www.adrianascaravan.com

www.kalustyans.com

www.globalfoodmarket.com

www.turkishtaste.com

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I understand real grenadine does exist, in some rift in time and space. who are the reliable suppliers for the good stuff. I recently saw at williams sonoma that they sell it, but at $13 for a 375 there has to be a better answer. They also have a nasty habit of not carrying things like that all the time.

Is the flavor profile much different? I've never had it. yet another tasty thing. I'd better get a second job...

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excellent. thank you all.

I may have to go with Fee's, the restaurant is only 31 seats, so I suspect I be tossing alot of grenadine... :sad:

I will try it, however. Is there a noticable difference from using the pomegranates over the pom stuff?

Sean

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Sean,

If you have sufficient access to pomegranates and the time and man-power to make your own grenadine by all means do so. If not, my bottle of Angostura Grenadine lists pomegranate as an ingredient. It's cheap and it suits my minimal grenadine requirements. However, and I may be outing myself as a palate-challenged rube here, but I don't taste a significant difference between the Angostura and the notoriously pomegranate-free Rose's Grenadine. I guess there's something slightly "off' about the taste of the Rose's but as I'm not drinking it straight and, in fact, primarily using it in recipes requiring only a dash or so for color I don't find that to be a problem. If I was making a cocktail requiring grenadine as a true flavoring agent I'm sure I'd use something else.

As yours is a commercial venture, and considering the cost of the POM Wonderful, the William-Sonoma, and the man-hours required of homemade, I would recommend that you look for a bottle each of the grenadines made with at least some actual pomegranate juice and do some taste-testing, cost analysis, etc. It shouldn't be too difficult for you to find Angostura, Fee Brothers*, Trader Vic's* or Monin* grenadines but I know enough about the restaurant biz to know that this may not be the case.

Another option to consider is Pama, the new pomegranate liqueur. It's pricey--and obviously not a 1:1 sub for grenadine--but I've heard good things about it. Might be worth a try.

Kurt

* I believe these have pomegranate juice as an ingredient but I've never seen them in person so be sure to check the label.

[ed. for spelling and the addition of an adjective.]


Edited by kvltrede (log)

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As yours is a commercial venture, and considering the cost of the POM Wonderful, the William-Sonoma, and the man-hours required of homemade, I would recommend that you look for a bottle each of the grenadines made with at least some actual pomegranate juice and do some taste-testing, cost analysis, etc.  It shouldn't be too difficult for you to find Angostura, Fee Brothers*, Trader Vic's* or Monin* grenadines but I know enough about the restaurant biz to know that this may not be the case.

In addition to Kurt's pretty comprehensive list, Torani makes a grenadine syrup. If your restaurant does espresso service and uses flavored syrups, you may be able to get this from the same supplier.

If you do ever decide to try making grenadine from scratch you will come to understand why the real stuff costs so much! It is an enormous amount of labor for very little return volume-wise.

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just a note, but if you're considering the POM and/or the Williams-Sonoma varieties, i think they're the same. the W-S bottle says made by POM Wonderful right on the side.

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Sean,

If you have sufficient access to pomegranates and the time and man-power to make your own grenadine by all means do so.  If not, my bottle of Angostura Grenadine lists pomegranate as an ingredient.  It's cheap and it suits my minimal grenadine requirments.  However, and I may be outing myself as a palate-challenged rube here, but I don't taste a significant difference between the Angostura and the notoriously pomegranate-free Rose's Grenadine.

I bought Fee's American Beauty hoping to save some fridge space, since the homemade one I make goes moldy. Fee's tastes nothing like homemade grenadine. I'm not saying it's bad, especially if you like a sort of bitter almond flavor, but it bears little to no resemblance to anything remotely pomegranate-like. It does taste different then the Rose's and the Torani I've tried, but I'm honestly not sure I'd say it's better. Call me a challenged rube too.

regards,

trillium

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I assume the Williams Sonoma product you're talking about is the Sonoma Syrup Co Pomegranate Simple Syrup. Another option is Al Wadi Pomegranate Molasses. And Boulaine Grenadine is an acceptable commercial grenadine.

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I make my own grenadine. by simply simmering the seeds of 2 pomegranates in 2 cups water, and 2 cups sugar until the seeds give up their ghost. I then strain the liquid and try to press as much of the remaning pulp through the sieve. When the mixture cools, I bottle it AND add 4 ounces of vodka as a preservative. This last step is important.

This stuff beats the pants off of anything else.

Of the standard commercial brands, my favorite is probably the Angostura brand... but it's hard to find up here in WA.

-Robert

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I don't know how this happened.  I am out of grenadine.  Normally I would just send an order off to @feste but I seem to have a few months' worth of her orgeat in house and shipping charges on a couple bottles of her stuff is prohibitive.  Raspberry syrup -- though wonderful in a Knickerbocker -- is not quite the same thing.

 

In my hydrator there lurks a poor pomegranate I could juice.  That is a possibility.  Though *sniff* I had other plans for it.

 

There is another option!  In googling around I found a brand called TRUE Grenadine.  She seems to have set herself up as a competitor of @feste in the high end syrup space.  Unlike @feste she sells on amazon with free shipping.  This speaks out to me.

 

Has anyone tried TRUE Grenadine?  Or have other vendors' grenadines to recommend?  Or make their own?

 

But wait!  @feste's now is sold on amazon with free shipping!  Competition and free enterprise can be a good thing!  I bought a bottle from @feste even though TRUE Grenadine was cheaper for the quantity.  I'm almost tempted to buy a bottle of TRUE Grenadine to compare.

 

 

OK, I took one for the team:  I ordered a bottle of TRUE Grenadine as well.  This could be most exciting.

 

 

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My bottle (bottle #136) of TRUE arrived!  Enjoying some in a zombie at the moment.  Granted a zombie may not be the best vehicle for comparing grenadines.  But in my zombie recipe TRUE works acceptably.  Perhaps less so in a Balaclava special #1 but I have yet to test.  Unsure about my friend Jack Rose.  Probably more than OK in a French 75.  Can't think of any other grenadine beverages I favor.  Shirley, sorry, please forgive me.

 

What else I can say?  TRUE is a thinner syrup than @feste's Small Hand grenadine.  This may help explain the difference in the cost.  Both brands contain pomegranate and cane sugar.  In addition TRUE adds orange blossom water, citric acid and clove.  @feste does not believe in preservatives.  Small Hand grenadine is organic, TRUE grenadine is not.

 

But TRUE numbers her bottles!

 

My shipment of Small Hand arrives today...

 

 

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