Black pepper

[riboflavinjoe]

okay, so we use salt and pepper everywhere. salt, it helps to enhance the flavour of the food, it brings out its flavor. why do we use pepper all over the place? i have never been able to get an answer that satisfies me... others seem to be stumped when i ask. and im not sure if i can really see the point of using it ALL OVER THE PLACE in cooking.

discussion? thougths?

joey

[bigbear]

Uh Oh.....

[fifi]

I have wondered the same thing. I have often added it "cuz you're sposed to" and wondered why or, couldn't see that it added anything, or could see that it added inappropriate black specs but didn't do anything for flavor.

A lot of Cajun cooking doesn't ue black pepper but substitutes cayenne.

Boy am I glad someone has guts enough to question the status quo.

[pixelchef]

I use pepper in my cooking to add another layer of flavour. It adds a subtle piquant aspect to food, in my opinion, and makes it more complex. It also works to counter bitterness, sweetness, and other elements that may need balance.

[Jinmyo]

Salt highlights and lifts other flavours as if they are magnified by the crystal. Used well, black pepper or white pepper or mixed peppercorns or other judiciously used forms of heat have the same effect.

In other words: It tastes good.

But of course this depends entirely on the quality of the pepper and how it used.

[elyse]

I like pepper, I use pepper. Why use something if you don't see the point?

[vengroff]

In my mind, the question is, why always black pepper? I prefer white pepper in many cases, both for flavor and appearance. I keep two grinders in the kitchen, one filled with black and one with white.

[pixelchef]

I agree, vengroff. I do the same.

[Fat Guy]

But crappy pre-ground pepper that has been sitting on the shelf for two years -- which I believe is the norm in American households -- does not make food taste better and does not add a valuable flavor of its own. There is no reason at all to use it, no more so than there would be reason to put sawdust in your food.

As for fresh-ground pepper of decent-or-better quality, I think the reason we use it in so many recipes is that so many recipes call for it. It's one of the foundations of flavor in many cuisines, and therefore many dishes seem to be lacking something when they don't contain pepper. But I do think it's an overused crutch of Western cuisine, and Western chefs typically use it as stupidly and cluelessly as they use all spices.

[Fritz Brenner]

I like pepper, I use pepper.

I agree-- I very much enjoy the flavor of pepper in many dishes (although quality does matter for sure). Aside from just adding an element of flavor to some foods, pepper alone can make a dish great-- steak au poivre would be an example. There are some things that I always add freshly ground pepper to-- a simple green salad, a tuna melt... I know these aren't examples of "haute cuisine," but I guess for me what elevates them beyond blah college food is a good quality pepper.

I'm done now.

Cheers,

Fritz

[Suzanne F]

I've worked for chefs who demand black pepper only, and others who won't consider anything except white. But they all use some sort of peppercorn. While it is not as useful as salt for highlighting flavors in general (as Jinmyo points out), pepper does make a subtle contrast to certain flavors, especially the sweet notes that one might not otherwise taste. Anyway, that my analysis.

Want to be scientific? Make something in two batches, one with pepper and one without. Can you taste a difference? I'll bet you can, even if you use that god-awful pre-ground stuff of either color. Then everybody come back here and we'll compare notes so that we can figure this thing out.

[JAZ]

At the risk of being obvious, I'd say that pepper adds the flavor of, well, pepper. A little heat, a little bitterness, both of which serve to cut through other flavors and act as a sort of wake up call to taste buds that are satiated with other tastes.

If you want to know exactly what it adds to any given dish, make the dish without it, and taste. Add some pepper to a portion of the dish and taste again. I think you'll find that it does add something -- a bit of piquancy, a hint of bitterness.

It doesn't belong in every dish, certainly, but some kind of heat or bitter element does help many foods. Whether it's cayenne, black pepper, chili oil, or sriricha, you find a hot element in many dishes, even if it's subtle.

That being said, black pepper is not something I often add at the table, unless the food is sorely lacking in flavor, and then it's usually because it's the only option. And I do hate the question, "Would you like fresh ground pepper on that?" asked by a waiter before I've even tasted my food. If the chef has done her job, I shouldn't need pepper added at the table, and in any case I can't know if I haven't tasted the dish.

Edit: since 20 minutes or so passed between the time I began this and the time I posted it, most of what I've said has been said by others. Oh well.

Edited May 6, 2003 by JAZ (log)

[tommy]

But crappy pre-ground pepper that has been sitting on the shelf for two years -- which I believe is the norm in American households -- does not make food taste better and does not add a valuable flavor of its own. There is no reason at all to use it, no more so than there would be reason to put sawdust in your food.

that's just plain silly. cleary it has flavor. if you don't think it does, put a teaspoon of McCormick's pre-ground pepper in your mouth. wash it down with some of that skim milk that everyone hates. and tell me it all tasted of saliva and water.

no one argues that butter tastes good on practically everything. i don't see pepper as being much different. 'cept for the fact it isn't fat. or creamy. and stuff like that.

[pixelchef]

I think the key to Fat Guy's statement was *VALUABLE* flavour, Tommy. He didn't claim it had no flavour at all, only that it doesn't add value to a dish. I agree with that.

[pjs]

if you don't think it does, put a teaspoon of McCormick's pre-ground pepper in your mouth.

McCormick's Whole Black Peppercorns are actually quite pungent in a nice way. And reasonably priced. It's what I'm using lately.

PJ

[Nick]

Try to imagine making a pea soup without peppercorns in it. Or many braises. And stocks. Potatoes without ground pepper on them? Okay, not french fries. Oops, bad word - freedom fries.

PJ's got it right on the McCormick's Whole Black Peppercorns. I recently got some Sarawak and Tellicherry from Penzy's. Nothing to write home about. Then got some Bounds' Tellicherry. Marginally better. Later I was out at Susie's and we did some ground pepper testing. The three I just mentioned plus some McCormick's she had. McCormick's was the easy winner.

[pixelchef]

McCormick's whole peppercorns ARE quite nice. I agree with you gentlemen. The pre-ground stuff, though, is NOT the same animal at all. I can't even believe that it's ground from the same peppercorns (is it?).

As for my pepper of choice, I use a combo of Malabar Black, Muntok White, Malaysian Green, and Indian Red peppercorns. Freshly ground, of course.

[torakris]

I think of pepper like any other spice, it adds a little oomph to the food, either as a background flavor or out in the front depending on when and how much is used. I keep both black and white in grinders at arms reach from the stove. Some cultures use very little pepper if any at all, think of Japanese, you'd be hard pressed to find tradional dishes that use pepper.

[Really Nice!]

okay, so we use salt and pepper everywhere.  salt, it helps to enhance the flavour of the food, it brings out its flavor.  why do we use pepper all over the place?  i have never been able to get an answer that satisfies me... others seem to be stumped when i ask.  and im not sure if i can really see the point of using it ALL OVER THE PLACE in cooking. 

discussion?  thougths?

joey

Salt, when properly applied, should make you salivate. If you actually taste salt, then you've added too much.

Pepper has a long history, just do a search on the spice trade to find its purpose and you should gain a lot of insite. As to why we continue to use it today, it adds a certain depth to food that isn't there. To say that the reason we use it "is that so many recipes call for it" is a plausible argument. Much like recipes that suggest you sift flour for a recipe when there is no apparent reason for it. Those directions come from our grandma's mothers. It's just copied from recipes handed down the generations.

Pepper, when properly applied, should make you pause to an unexpected sensation in the back of the tongue. Too much and you end up coughing due to its hot and spicy picante characteristic. I agree with Suzanne's experiment (geez, that's twice today!). Try the same dish with and without it. You'll probably agree that it needs it.

A little bit of history: Pepper was used in 400 BC by the Romans and was a valuable item both as a currency and for trade.

Pepper grows green, turns red from the sun, burns to black, white is the inside of black pepper. Mélange includes those four plus allspice.

A couple of notes about various peppers (notes are from culinary school):

There are basically four kinds of pepper. Green, red, black and white. In this order, pepper becomes more aromatic (from green to white); however, the inverse is true in flavor (white is the strongest in flavor, green weakest). All come from the Piper nigrum vine and are mostly grown commercially in Asia and South America. The main difference is what happens after they are harvested.

• Green pepper: This is mildest in flavor and has a fresh taste. It is the most aromatic of the three peppers. It comes from unripened, immature berries. While weakest in flavor, it is the strongest in aroma. It is brined or freeze-dried to stop the ripening.

• Red pepper: This berry left to ripen in the sun. (Pink peppercorn is pepper that is not fully ripened.)

• Black pepper: Has a sharp, pungent aroma and flavor. It is less earthy than white pepper. It is the same as red only scorched in the sun.

• White pepper: This is the inner hull of the black pepper. It is strongest in flavor (hotter than the others), and it is weakest in aroma. Also, use this in dishes that are lighter and little black flecks are not preferred.

Personally, the white peppers that I have purchased have a notedly 'plastic' smell and flavor to it. The same results come from separate purchases at Sur La Table and Williams and Sonoma. Does anyone else detect this?

[Dana]

I really hate it when a TV chef says to salt and pepper the dish, then proceeds to put a grind and a half on the food. That's not enough pepper to see, much less taste. They should either use as much as needed for the dish, or forget it all together. They must think we are really dumb if we believe that little bit of pepper is all the dish requires.

[tommy]

I think the key to Fat Guy's statement was *VALUABLE* flavour, Tommy.  He didn't claim it had no flavour at all, only that it doesn't add value to a dish.  I agree with that.

fair enough. fat guy does like those wide brushes, though. i respect his and your opinion that preground pepper has no 'valuable' flavor.

at China 46, in NJ, they have a wonderful tofu and asian greens soup. it becomes even more wonderful when they bring a shaker of pre-ground pepper to the table and you give it a couple of shakes on the ol' soup.

so i suppose it's subjective.

[=Mark]

I like to add a few shakes of white pepper to the hot & sour soup in chinese restaurants. This is one dish where ground pepper is, in my mind, essential.

[elyse]

I'd rather have preground pepper than no pepper. Even if it comes out of a paper tube. Sometimes, I even pepper my fries.

I can not STAND white pepper. I was so happy to hear Sara Moulton mention that certain chefs refuse to use it because they also don't like it. Finally, I wasn't a freak. Rebel that I am, after a few times of adding the white pepper when recipes called for it and hating the results, I used black.

[Fritz Brenner]

Sometimes, I even pepper my fries. 

elyse, I'm agreeing with you all over the place. I almost always pepper my fries. Is that weird or something?

[tommy]

Sometimes, I even pepper my fries. 

elyse, I'm agreeing with you all over the place. I almost always pepper my fries. Is that weird or something?

of course it's not weird. i put pepper in the ketchup so i get a bit of pepper on each fry (otherwise, the pepper bounces off of the fries).