Durham, NC

[s'kat]

It looks like I'll be here next month for a business conference. I'm dragging my husband along with me so that we can have a weekend-long mini-vacation.

Any restaurants you would care to recommend.... or 'things-to-do'?

Thanks for your input.

[Varmint]

There are a few threads about Durham restaurants in the South & Southwest boards. However, the top choices in the area are Magnolia Grill, Nana's and Four Square in Durham. There are a number of other fine places in Raleigh and Chapel Hill, so you shouldn't have a problem finding good places to eat. Of course, you also have a number of barbecue and country cooking places to choose from!

[vengroff]

Is Crook's Corner over in Chapel Hill still around? I used to like the shrimp and grits (their signature dish) a lot. There's also Fearrington House over in Pittsboro, which I have never been to, but which has something of a national reputation.

[Varmint]

Both good choices, but Crooks has lost some of its relevance over the years. It's certainly not fine dining, but it's quite good and was one of the major forces in bringing southern cuisine to the attention of the rest of the country. Fearrington is still a delight and is a lovely place.

[s'kat]

Well, it seems that I will now be heading to this unknown destination by myself. (Husband will be very busy with work at this time).

I'll be staying over a Thursday night, and my class is on a Friday. This Magnolia Grill sounds not only intriguing, but I am hearing its name repeated over and again. Depending upon hotel location, a nice, light solo dinner may be in order. I actually can't remember the last time I've eaten out, alone. This may prove interesting.

[Varmint]

If you can tell us the general location of the hotel, we can let you know about your distance from the Magnolia Grill, which is really in the heart of the city. Many hotels are in the outskirts of the city. As far as reservations are concerned, if you try to get a 6:00 slot, they should have some availability. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[mogsob]

There used to be a very good French restaurant just behind Franklin Street -- I can't remember the name (and this is going back at least 10 years).

I assume Mamma Dip's is still there.

Over in Durham, things are a bit more grim. Is Nikko's still there? Pretty good greek food, as I recall.

I would skip the haul over to Pittsboro. Overpriced and not very good.

The Angus Barn between Raleigh and Durham is a very good steakhouse with a great wine list.

[Varmint]

There used to be a very good French restaurant just behind Franklin Street -- I can't remember the name (and this is going back at least 10 years).

That would be La Residence (or "La Rez") Website. That was one of the South's cutting edge restaurants 20+ years ago. It still maintains some of its relevance, but it's not the first choice among better restaurants in the area.

As far as mogsob's comments that things are grim in Durham, nothing could be further from the truth. Even though I'v lived in Raleigh for the last 8 years and in Chapel Hill for 11 years before that, I'd say that Durham has the best high-end dining scene in the Triangle, followed closely by Chapel Hill. Raleigh, unfortunately, is not quite as good as the other cities in the region. Between Magnolia Grill, Nana's, Four Square, Pop's and others, you'll find something great in Durham.

The Angus Barn is a damn good steakhouse and a local institution. Because of the way the cities sprawl around here, you may end up being pretty close to this. If you're looking for something more creative, however, you have lots of other options.

[Zeb A]

If you want to stay in Durham for dinner and have not been, go to Magnolia Grill.

If you want to try something different and dont mind going to Raleigh, go to Enoteca Vin.

[ajay]

Zeb A,

Can you provide a little more info on Enoteca Vin?? [Nothing came up on the search function.] I'm always pressed to find new and exciting things when I'm in the triangle area, though I am so all Scott Howell's new bbq place.

[Varmint]

Enoteca Vin is owned in part by Chrish (yes, Chrish) Peel, who is also co-owner of Carolina Wine Company, arguably the Southeast's best source for wine. They have managed to combine very, very good (although half a step short of outstanding) food with an excellent wine service. Here's a link to their website: http://www.enotecavin.com/

They also have a pretty damn good cheese selection. As far as the total experience in Raleigh is concerned, this place is in the top 2 or 3.

[s'kat]

If you can tell us the general location of the hotel, we can let you know about your distance from the Magnolia Grill, which is really in the heart of the city

It seems that I will be staying in a Hampton Inn, on Hillandale Road.

It also looks like that I will now have a dining partner, in the form of one veggie co-worker who doesn't drink wine.

[Varmint]

Magnolia Grill is less than a 5 minutes drive away, so I strongly suggest going there. They will take care of vegeterians, moreso if you let them know when you make reservations. They have a decent selection of wines by the glass.

You may also want to hit Bullock's Barbecue for lunch, which is also very close to your hotel. It's not the greatest barbecue in the world, but they serve dishes family style, so there would be plenty of vegetables available. The green beans and collards would likely be cooked with pig fat, so your friend should be careful!

Four Square is a bit further, but still less than a 10 minute drive. Check out their website at http://www.foursquarerestaurant.com/restaurant.asp.

Please be sure to report back!

[joler]

You should stop in at Foster's Market if for no other reason than to say you've been there and to get some bourbon bread pudding (TO DIE FOR!). Highway 15/501 in Durham.

[Zeb A]

Zeb A,

Can you provide a little more info on Enoteca Vin??

Varmint gave a good description. It is my favorite place in Raleigh. The food is always very very good. They change the menu around with some regularity. Service is excellent. It is fun. Usually a good crowd.

We like to sit at the bar, order 1-2 meats and cheeses and a couple of glasses of wine. Then pick an assortment of appetizers or entrees. Everything always tastes great. Many unusual wines by the glass.

Sunday brunch is, to my mind, the best in the triangle.

[joler]

Enoteca Vin is owned in part by Chrish (yes, Chrish) Peel, who is also co-owner of Carolina Wine Company, arguably the Southeast's best source for wine.  As far as the total experience in Raleigh is concerned, this place is in the top 2 or 3.

Geez Varmint, how come you left that off my list? That vegetarian dinner on the 24th is right up my alley...I might have to actually try to make that one.

[kpurvis]

Both good choices, but Crooks has lost some of its relevance over the years.

Varmint, can I disagree on that? I'd keep Crooks on the list of important Triangle experiences. I give the chef high marks for keeping it interesting and relevant, when it would be easy just to let the place be a Bill Neal legacy.

Also, S'Kat, you're probably too early in the season, but if you can, the Carrboro Farmers Market is a don't-miss. In fact, I think half the fun in the Triangle isn't the restaurants, it's the food shopping -- Mariakakas international market in Chapel Hill, Fowlers Market in Durham, A Southern Season in Chapel Hill. Take an extra suitcase.

[Varmint]

Both good choices, but Crooks has lost some of its relevance over the years.

Varmint, can I disagree on that? I'd keep Crooks on the list of important Triangle experiences. I give the chef high marks for keeping it interesting and relevant, when it would be easy just to let the place be a Bill Neal legacy.

Kathi, you can disagree with me anytime!! The last couple of times I've eaten at Crooks, which has always been one of my all time favorites, I've come away disappointed. Bill Smith has continued to carry on Bill Neal's traditions, but I don't think he's grown the restaurant the way that Mr. Neal would have. I still like the place (and make many of the dishes they make), but I believe the people there have become somewhat complacent. If you want to take me there and prove me wrong, however . . . .

[ditsydine]

Also if pick up a copy of the Independent http://www.indyweek.com, and if you can find it, a copy of the much newer Lather to see what's going on about town..or also triangle.com

If your veggie co-worker is the kind of vegitarian who expects the dinner to be planned around them, instead of vice versa (argh!) Irregardless in Raleigh has a good rep for vegiarian meals (as well as meat), and I enjoy their brunch.

[kpurvis]

If you want to take me there and prove me wrong, however . . . .   

I will if you'll teach me the secret of adding a pithy quote after my signature. I tried to add some personality with my favorite new Tom Swifty, but it didn't come out in that chic blue like yours. Of course, actual signature art will ever be beyond me.

[Random Alias]

I've eaten at most of the "name" restaurants in the Triangle and so far my favorite is Fins.

I have to admit that I'm a bit biased though as I spent 10 years in Seattle and Fins most reminds me of the style of food commonly found there. Unfortunately it's in North Raleigh, so from Durham it would be quite a drive - about 30 minutes or so.

Fins at CitySearch

Oh yeah...it's in a strip mall.

I've lived here for over a year now and I still can't get use to nice restaurants in strip malls.

It's weird...especially when there's a Food Lion next door.

[Varmint]

Fins is my favorite restaurant in Raleigh. I believe the chef, William Dauvray, does "more with less" than anyone in the area. It is in a strip mall. The space is not great. The kitchen is understaffed. But the food, oh, the food. It sounds like your standard fusion fare, but he does more than that. He adds spice when it's unexpected, and it works. He deconstructs, redefines, and simplifies dishes that have become routine. He's a thinker, and although not everything works 100% of the time, I'd gladly spend my money there instead of just about any other restaurant in the Triangle.

The downside to the restaurant is service. It's a small place in the netherworld of the suburbia that is known as North Raleigh. Getting good help out there isn't going to be easy, and because they don't turn a lot of covers in a night, the waitstaff probably doesn't get paid as well as what they might get at other places. Thus, you put up with the service, sit back, and enjoy his food.

[mjc]

They will take care of vegeterians, moreso if you let them know when you make reservations. 

Do you find the magnolia grill accommodating these days? I lived in Durham for 4 years went once and never returned, because the kitchen refused to accommodate my father's simple special dietary request, which every other restaurant in the country has honored.

s'kat, I would definitely recommend having lunch at Foster's on a nice sunny day. And I think Nana's is one of the best and Four Square is great too.

Edited May 1, 2003 by mjc (log)

[Varmint]

Do you find the magnolia grill accommodating these days?  I lived in Durham for 4 years went once and never returned, because the kitchen refused to accommodate my father's simple special dietary request, which every other restaurant in the country has honored. 

The simple answer to your question is "No." They'll do the vegeterian meal, but if there are idiosyncratic requests, they really don't like to accomodate you. But this is why I believe they are so rigid (which I've cut and pasted from an email I sent out earlier this week).

Ben Barker at Magnolia Grill still puts out the most impressive fare. His dishes are usually quite complex, unlike a Tom Colicchio of NYC's Gramercy Tavern and Craft, which are really fairly deconstructed dishes. One of the complaints about Magnolia Grill is that they don't like to adjust their dishes much. For example, my wife hates cilantro, and she wanted them to make a sans-cilantro dish that used the herb. They really pushed her to keep in the cilantro, as it was a good counterbalance for the rest of the dish. Reluctantly, my wife agreed, and she was glad she did. The flavor of cilantro was not readily evident, amazingly. Instead, it was subtle, which is very difficult to accomplish. If the cilantro weren't there, the dish would have noticeably "missed something." And this is a dish with about 20 or more ingredients. Very impressive, and as a result, these dishes are generally not for the home cook.

Should a top-notch restaurant make individual adjustments to a dish, particularly for dietary reasons? Sure. If they don't, is the restaurant wrong? Probably not, but they can be assured that they won't have that group coming back anytime soon.

In the end, it isn't so much that Magnolia Grill won't make changes, it's just that you have to push them extremely hard. Most people won't do that (nor do they want to).

[s'kat]

In fact, I think half the fun in the Triangle isn't the restaurants, it's the food shopping -- Mariakakas international market in Chapel Hill, Fowlers Market in Durham, A Southern Season in Chapel Hill. Take an extra suitcase.

Uh-oh... sounds like I could really get myself into trouble down there.

BTW, I went ahead and made reservations for the Magnolia Grill. It looks like the veggie co-worker is now not coming. My husband is waffling about going, or not going, due to work overload. When I mentioned that the pastry chef had won a James Beard Award, he began re-checking his work schedule, mumbling something about 'maybe being able to move some things around...'