TDG: Watch Your Language: Serviette v. Napkin

[Fat Guy]

Watch your language, or Priscilla will.

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[Jim Dixon]

But when can I use the schmatta? (pardon my goyish yiddish)

or, as my Sicilian-American father-in-law calls the disgusting rag he always has over his shoulder, my "mapeen?" (spelled phonetically...I think it must be dialect)

Jim

[cdh]

And I had always thought that the British preference for "serviette" was derived from the local usage of the word "napkin" or colloquially "nappy" to mean a baby's diaper. Not something one of the "U" would desire to spread across the lap. As there are lifelong residents of the Isles in question likely to read this, I'm sure I'll either be bolstered or corrected, as is necessary.

[g.johnson]

No, no, no, no, no.

Contrary to Priscilla's suggestion

A classic cultural double bind -- despite its suggestive continental aspirations, serviette is relegated to non-U status.

serviette is non-U precisely because it is French. So pudding rather than dessert. Fillet rather than filet. And, for god's sake, remember to sound the 't' in valet.

[Wilfrid]

Best prose style on eGullet. No smilies. And knows where to find good authorities too.

[maggiethecat]

Best prose style on eGullet.

I agree.

My very non-U Lancashire Granny frowned seriously on serviette.

Didn't the Divine Miss. M. also forbid "mirror" ("glass" preferred) and stationery (letter paper?)

[Priscilla]

Oh thank you, Maggiethecat and Wilfrid.

And yes, good authorities are beyond essential. One needn't know everything already if one knows where to go to find out.

Sometimes it's enough merely to float it out over the psychic transom. Other times, it's straight to Expert PMs.

[Fat Guy]

We have some Kiwi friends who insist on using serviette and who insist that it's totally U. I couldn't talk them out of it, even with reference to authoritative printed sources (Columbia Guide to Standard English).

Be sure to use looking glass for mirror too.

[jackal10]

Ivy leaf Damask, starched white, neatly folded (but not pleated) on the service plate. In these days with fewer staff, placing it on the left side is permitted, where the cold first course is already on the plate.

For home use or for regular diners in a proper silver napkin ring.

Decently large, not one of those handkerchief sized apologies.

Edited April 10, 2003 by jackal10 (log)

[Wilfrid]

Does anyone else set out proper napkins at dinner as a matter of habit, and not just for guests? Or am I the loony? Once you get used to them, it's hard to go back to hastily torn scraps of kitchen towel.

[tommy]

Does anyone else set out proper napkins at dinner as a matter of habit, and not just for guests?

nope.

[Fat Guy]

No, but we all admire you for doing it.

The current generation of paper serv . . . I mean napkins is pretty darn nice, though.

[macrosan]

Does anyone else set out proper napkins at dinner as a matter of habit, and not just for guests?

Also nope, but then perhaps I'm just a neater eater than Wilf

I too am a serviettist, and cdh is correct to observe that in proper English a napkin is what our ex-colonial cousins call a diaper. What is the derivation of that extraordinary word ?

Whatever else you may think about the French, they did coin some useful words, and I for one shall not hesitate to use or misuse them when appropriate.

[Gavin Jones]

I used to disapprove on the erroneous grounds that I was not in the habit of showering myself with food.

The much bigger question is does one place the napkin on one's lap or tuck it into the shirt? Again I used to be very much a lap-napkin user. But on reflection the logical place is tucked into the shirt, protecting the tie. And it pleasingly irritates other diners as they look askance at my poor manners.

[tommy]

But on reflection the logical place is tucked into the shirt, protecting the tie.

no no. the tie needs to be "tossed" over one's shoulder. the derivation of this term is clearly from "look at that tosser with his tie over his shoulder."

some rules: please, tuck it into your shirt btwn the buttons if you must get if off of your belly. napkins on your lap. elbows off the table. fingers out of your nose. that is all.

[Gavin Jones]

Except of course when 'taking in' an ortolan.

[g.johnson]

Does anyone else set out proper napkins at dinner as a matter of habit, and not just for guests?  Or am I the loony?  Once you get used to them, it's hard to go back to hastily torn scraps of kitchen towel.

Yes. But I drool uncontrollably so paper disintegrates.

[g.johnson]

I too am a serviettist, and cdh is correct to observe that in proper English a napkin is what our ex-colonial cousins call a diaper.

According to the OED, the serviette meaning dates to at least 1420; the diaper meaning to only 1845.

What is the derivation of that extraordinary word ?

Diminutive of OF nappe, a tablecloth

[macrosan]

What is the derivation of that extraordinary word ?

Diminutive of OF nappe, a tablecloth

No no no, stop jesting Prof. You know I wasn't talking about "napkin", I was talking about "diaper". Is that even in the OED, and if so why ?

[Priscilla]

Proper napkins, every day.

I like how serviette has loaded within it class striving, as aforementioned. Doomed, doomed class striving, of course -- as with any indicator of class identity all the U-ers are already there in the parlor just WAITING. I see it as analogous to how Damon Runyon gangster archetypes never use contractions.

Also I claim serviette as an example of hypervocabularization, a related concept more on which later -- fortAY, e.g., rather than just plain old "forte."

[jpyvr]

I must report that like the Kiwis, Canadians use serviette in preference to napkin, its U-status notwithstanding. (That is unless they are French-speaking Canadians...for them, a serviette, depending on its size and location, can be used either for dabbing one's mouth at the table, or drying oneself after washing or bathing.)

[Jim Dixon]

Does anyone else set out proper napkins at dinner as a matter of habit?

We stopped using paper napkins and towels long ago. Judith found some cast-off surgical towels in a lovely shade of institutional green that she cut up and hemmed for our everyday chin-wiping.

Jim

[maggiethecat]

Does anyone else set out proper napkins at dinner as a matter of habit, and not just for guests?

At breakfast and lunch too. Cloth napkins are like pretty underwear: a luxury so simple it's silly to go without.

[g.johnson]

What is the derivation of that extraordinary word ?

Diminutive of OF nappe, a tablecloth

No no no, stop jesting Prof. You know I wasn't talking about "napkin", I was talking about "diaper". Is that even in the OED, and if so why ?

Oops. Sorry.

Diaper from the Greek dia-, through, and aspros, white.

1. The name of a textile fabric; now, and since the 15th c., applied to a linen fabric (or an inferior fabric of ‘union’ or cotton) woven with a small and simple pattern, formed by the different directions of the thread, with the different reflexions of light from its surface, and consisting of lines crossing diamond-wise, with the spaces variously filled up by parallel lines, a central leaf or dot, etc.

In earlier times, esp. in OFr. and med.L., the name was applied to a richer and more costly fabric, apparently of silk, woven or flowered over the surface with gold thread.

2. A towel, napkin, or cloth of this material; a baby's napkin or ‘clout’.

[Liza]

More from Priscilla, please.

Question from an ever expanding Egulleteer: when the belly exceeds the napkin, should one - may one - employ two napkins, or just chance it?