Lettuce Entertain You

[Rail Paul]

I think you could make a very good argument for "Emeril" as a brand, which is one definition of a chain. Nobody expects to find Emeril in the kitchen, but they know he's "keeping watch" on the chefs who follow his recipes faithfully.

Smith & Wollensky or Ruth's Chris are examples of higher end chains, with dependable cooking, relatively little regional variation, and a generally good result.

Recipes are established and tested, chefs are expected to cook them exactly as written. Employees are trained according to a standard set of rules and expectations, pay and benefits are tuned to the local market.

one big danger with branding to a person is when that person dies, goes off the wall, or is involved in unpleasantness (think Martha Stewart omnimedia), the whole line is at risk of collapse.

Edited April 1, 2003 by Rail Paul (log)

[Suzanne F]

. . . one big danger with branding to a person is when that person dies, goes off the wall, or is involved in unpleasantness (think Martha Stewart omnimedia), the whole line is at risk of collapse.

Not entirely the case -- Ruth Fertel is gone, but her empire lives on. But then, I doubt many people even knew that there WAS a real live Ruth.

To get back to LEYE and such: an Ed Debevic's opened here in NYC some years ago, on Broadway near New York University. If it lasted a year, I'd be surprised. Ditto Schlotzky's, ditto J. Bildner. Okay, Bildner was ahead of its time, IMO. But the other two come out of successful corporations. How could those corps. have miscalculated so badly?

[Rail Paul]

. . . one big danger with branding to a person is when that person dies, goes off the wall, or is involved in unpleasantness (think Martha Stewart omnimedia), the whole line is at risk of collapse.

Not entirely the case -- Ruth Fertel is gone, but her empire lives on. But then, I doubt many people even knew that there WAS a real live Ruth.

Had Ruth been active in the business in the years prior to her death? I had thought she retired from active management several years earlier.

Like Dave Thomas at Wendy's. He had sold out to a management team, and received a royalty stream and a payout. He did personal appearances and ads, but had no formal controls. I thought Ruth was in the same boat

Martha still approves every shoot, every layout, appears in the ads, and briefs the analysts. Lately, however, she's been pushing everybody else into view, which is a big change for her.

Brennans (the New Orleans people) emphasize the firm and the name, with their first rate chefs moving through and out, while the restaurants are in the charge of generations of family.

[indiagirl]

Steve Klc raised some excellent points. And I happen to agree with a fair number of them. I clearly distinguished in my post between chains and RC's. Chains I do not support, RC's are a source of much debate - for many reasons including the idea of stability that Steve Klc mentioned.

Let me enumerate. And clarify. And perhaps explain why, IMO, this is not a case of "indifference, pretension or attitude."

I refuse to contribute to the profit base of restaurant chains - and I mean places like Mongolian BBQ and Don Carlos. My reasons are :

- they do not feed their profits back into the community hence they are limited to their constributions towards a sustainable economy

- time and again chain restaurants have upped and left without any concern for the local community economics

- because of a national profit base they are able to undercut "local" business owners

- on a personal level, I also do not appreciate what they do to the character of our downtown, but that is a different matter.

- on a personal level, I think the food and service are also below par at chain resturants

On a slight tangent, Target is a noteworthy example of a chain store that I do frequent. They funnel a portion of their profits into our local schools. Starbucks is also noteworthy because they make an effort to maintain a local character and serve consistent quality.

About the RC's - they are a source of constant debate because they draw a fair amount of out of town business to Ann Arbor and they certainly have a greater ability to weather difficult conditions. And these are good things.

On the flip side, several of them have been accused of immigrant worker exploitation (as nerissa pointed out, I think this is an issue independent of the type of restaurant) and they also seem to dominate our limited liquor licenses. I understand that these are both issues specific to Ann Arbor.

The employees being local in either case is unfortunately, not necessarily relevant to a student town. I think they all employ students extensively which does not do wonders for the quality of service anywhere. I could count the number of career waitstaff in this town on my fingers.

[WHT]

Still it is hard to ignore a company so completely dominating the Chicago dining scene. For better or worse Lettuce defines the fine dining scene and most of the other dining scenes in Chicago and Lettuce Entertain You represents a gigantic slice of what the outside world thinks of Chicago fine dining.

Not only would I challenge that assessment but add that they are far from fine dining. With maybe the exception of Joes Seafood, Prime Steak & Stone crab. Trotters, Thyme and even Morton’s are a closer fit. LEY is formula food pandering to the lowest common denominator, uninspired center weighted presentations not withstanding. Service is in most cases inept and intrusive. I guess in the more is good category they do come off well but why would anyone want more mediocre food?

Hype, pure and simple coupled with a few mentions in Crain’s are all that seem to bolster these establishments. LEY is to fine dinning what Bennigans is to Irish pubs. I can’t see how anyone would mistake it for more than it is. How did you come up with the thought that they where in any way dominant much less defining of a region?

[WHT]

Perhaps the interesting part of the Lettuce Entertain story is not Lettuce itself, but what it is doing to other creative restaurants. Lettuce takes such a big chunk out of the available customers that it does damage to the independent market in Chicago.

Please provide any evidence you have to back that assumption. I think you over estimate / value LEY. If some rubes want to be duped into thinking that LEY is Chicago dinning at it’s best, more seats for the rest of us at truly good places.

[awbrig]

If some rubes want to be duped into thinking that LEY is Chicago dinning at it’s best,

I dont thinl he said or implied that. LEYE is definately a HUGE force in Chicago - the food might not be on the high end except tru, Ambria and Everest but it is none the less a well oiled machine that packs them in...

[WHT]

If some rubes want to be duped into thinking that LEY is Chicago dinning at it’s best,

I dont thinl he said or implied that. LEYE is definately a HUGE force in Chicago - the food might not be on the high end except tru, Ambria and Everest but it is none the less a well oiled machine that packs them in...

Reread some of his previous posts. I get the distinct impression that he not only thinks that LEY is taking away from “local” places but is regarded as some sort of driving force seen as being what Chicago is as far as dinning goes. Heck its his opinion, I just don’t agree with it.

[awbrig]

not only thinks that LEY is taking away from “local” places but is regarded as some sort of driving force seen as being what Chicago is as far as dinning goes

For the most part, I agree with him...

[WHT]

not only thinks that LEY is taking away from “local” places but is regarded as some sort of driving force seen as being what Chicago is as far as dinning goes

For the most part, I agree with him...

Sad to say but PT Barnum was right.

[Aurora]

How did you come up with the thought that they where in any way dominant much less defining of a region?

Though not dominant from a culinary perspective, LEY -- mediocre or not -- is dominant from a financial perspctive. That is what makes them a serious competitor, and I think that is what Craig is getting at.

As much as we don't discuss it, restaurants are money-making propositions. It's not about cuisine as much as it is about revenue. That is what makes LEY the powerful force with the ability to snuff out high-quality independents without really even trying.

[WHT]

That is what makes LEY the powerful force with the ability to snuff out high-quality independents without really even trying.

This reminds me of that move where in the future every restaurant was a Taco Bell, Demolition Man, I think. Sure from a certain standpoint I guess they could be seen as big. Though there are still larger and more profitable organizations like the Burch Group out of Texas or Million Dollar Enterprises in NJ if we are talking strictly dollars. All of these corporations share similar traits and approach the market in the same way.

[Sweet Willie]

Isn't there something to be said for restaurants that bridge the gap between the Olive Garden's / Chi Chis / Friday's of the world and 'fine dining'?

THANK YOU! My thoughts exactly. Not everyone is such a foodie as ourselves.

I view LEY as (hopefully) a stepping stone on one's foodie education.

[jwagnerdsm]

I had a nice night out at the Lettuce Entertain You tapas restaurant in Chicago. Is it called Cafe Baba Reba? Of course, in Des Moines we don't have any place where we can get a large variety of interesting tapas. The quality probably wasn't as good as some of the little cafes I eat at in Spain, but overall it was a satisfying meal. We chose the place simply because we wanted tapas and it was close to where we were staying. I'd go back. Call me a rube if you want.

I think it's interesting that we can sometimes forgive corporations because we like their product. I am thinking of Starbuck's and Ruth's Chris. Starbuck's recently came to Des Moines -- news that got a good laugh across the globe. Starbucks seems to be everywhere and now, finally, Iowa. They are doing OK, but so are the half-dozen or so long-standing and very successful coffee houses that have been in operation in Des Moines for more than a decade. And there are plenty of people who simply refuse to go to Starbucks because of what they are: a fast-food joint that sells coffee. I'd like some examples of the things Starbucks does for the community? I can't recall hearing about any great community service they've been involved in here.

[guajolote]

I'd like some examples of the things Starbucks does for the community? I can't recall hearing about any great community service they've been involved in here.

There are lots of other Starbucks threads but I'll chime in here.

Starbucks gives their part time employees health insurance.

The librarian at my daughter's school, who's a friend of ours, received a $1000 grant from Starbucks to buy books for the library.

[jwagnerdsm]

Health insurance is a nice benefit and socially responsible (although it's also smart business for anyone who wants to hire and retain good employees). I'm sure the schools, little league teams, women's shelters, etc. of Seattle appreciate it when we buy $3 cups at Starbucks. I'd just as soon see more of my dollar stay in the local economy.

[nightscotsman]

Also, it has been shown that when a Starbucks opens in a community, business actually INCREASES at nearby independent coffee places. They say it's because Starbucks brings visibility and helps educate customers about gourmet coffee, as well as how much that cup of premium coffee should cost. I'm sure there's also a backlash effect from those people who turn to the independents to purposefully snub Starbucks.

[jwagnerdsm]

I read that study, too. It's been out there for awhile and some have countered that while that was true when the coffee boom was really happening, it isn't so true anymore because most everyone in every major market has been exposed to good coffee and coffee drinks. The guy who runs the most popular coffee place here told me a few months ago that he hasn't seen any boost in business since Starbucks opened.

[bilrus]

But has there been a decrease in business?

[maggiethecat]

Starbucks gives their part time employees health insurance.

'Nuff said. I didn't know this, and might have to fill out an application this afternoon.

jwagnerdsm: I had dinner at Cafe Baba Reba a couple of years ago. I don't have your Spanish travel background, so I have no means of comparison. What I do remember was tasty food, decent prices and a good time had by all.

So I don't give diddley who owns it.

Signed,

Your fellow Rube

[sieve]

if anyone is interested in persuing an overworked discussion ( but one i still find myself arguing regularly), here's a link to a great WSJ article that even mentions one of my local favorties, katerina's on irving park.

starbucks not so bad, really

it's from last september, but relevant still.

and guaj, i too know a public school teacher who bought her home with the help of starbucks shares, a feat otherwise impossible on her CPS salary. so there.

[Lady T]

I'm sure there's also a backlash effect from those people who turn to the independents to purposefully snub Starbucks.

I watched this happen in my neighborhood not all that long ago -- and participated myself, actually, since the independent across the street from my home (Ennui) was the beneficiary when large numbers of Rogers Parkers gleefully didn't go to the Starbucks which opened four blocks south of me on Sheridan Road.

Me? I'm just lazy. I also like Ennui's scones better. Starbuck's has plenty of business; they can't do otherwise that close to Loyola -- but Ennui is where I go to sit/drink/think.

[Schneier]

Fascinating discussion; I missed it until today.

In general, I don't really favor the Lettuce Entertain You chain. In general, the restaurants aren't all that good. There are some exceptions, but they are execptions.

None of the LEU restaurants in Minneapolis are any good.

Bruce

[Sweet Willie]

Anyone ever been to that place in Water Tower? It's supposed to be OK.

I think you mean Foodlife.

Foodlife

835 N Michigan Ave (Water Tower Place)

Chicago, IL 60611-2203

Phone: (312) 335-3663

Hours

Sun-Thu 7:30am-8pm

Fri-Sat 7:30am-9pm

Foodlife is a food court on the mezzanie level of Water Tower Place, where you take a card, sample one or more of 13 food stations and pay on your way out.

Just some of the station serve a Mexican, Italian, Fresh fruit/salad, BBQ offerings.

Foodlife is a good choice for groups or if you are not sure what you want, as there are many choices. The food is not very authentic ethnic.

Last time I was there I purchased a grilled marinated vegetable panini with a fresh squeezed watermelon/lemonade drink. Both very tasty

Seating can be busy at peak times, but I've found it moves.

I would not go out of my way for Foodlife, but if you are tired of the shopping on Michigan Ave or find yourself at Water Tower Place, Foodlife will please.