aging beef

[tommy]

i broached this subject on another thread, but i think it deserves its own.

i understand that t-bone and porterhouse steaks are generally dry-aged for about 28 days in better steakhouses.

a couple of questions:

1) why is 28 the magic number? i see 28 an awful lot.

2) it's my understanding that filet mignon is not dry-aged. it comes right out of the plastic. however, tenderloin is a big part of porterhouse, and a exists to a lesser extent on t-bone. if the aging helps it there, why not on its own as filet mignon?

are my assumptions accurate? if so, what gives?

thoughts?

[Jinmyo]

Folk will buy filet mignon. It can be tasteless, they'll still buy it. As long as it's tender, they'll buy it.

Why waste the time and expense of dry aging it? The loss of volume...

edit:

Nick Gatti might have something interesting to say here.

Edited March 2, 2003 by Jinmyo (log)

[Fat Guy]

You'll usually see beef aged either 21 days (aka 3 weeks) or 28 days (aka 4 weeks). I'd say 21 days is more common. I have no idea why they never age it, say, 25 days -- probably tradition. All other things being equal, 21-day-aged beef will exhibit less loss to the process and will have a "fresher" taste. 28-day-aged beef is going to have more of the aged/hung taste, and is going to lose a couple more percent volume to the aging process.

The big issue with filet mignon is that almost no Prime, age-worthy filet mignon even exists. The best potential filet mignons are all absorbed into the Porterhouses. In addition, on account of the shrinkage and trimming loss, if you started butchering aged filet mignons they'd be the shape and width of the filet portion of a porterhouse -- it would be very hard to get a big fat Old Homestead-style filet mignon from aged beef. I think. Maybe someone has done it, but I've never seen it.

[vengroff]

28 can't really be an exact number in practice. It's hard to imagine that most steakhouses can so accurately predict demand four weeks out that they never have to dip into the stuff that's only been aging 27 days or sell some left-over 29 day aged product. I doubt that +/- 1 day is the limit of this practice.

[SteveW]

Lobel's butcher shop in NYC, goes a step or two further in dry-aging their beef. They claim their beef is aged 4-6 weeks(28 to 42 days).

------------

Steve

[bushey]

We have a friend who spent quite a few years as a meat cutter and is one of our best sources of information. Apparently when he and his wife first started living together they had a difference of opinion over how long steak (for example) would stay good in the fridge after getting it home. She, like many of us, had been brought up believing that you use it in one day or freeze it. He would take the steak out of its wrapper and leave it on a plate in the fridge for several days, until it was a darkish brown all over. Not the same as 21 days, perhaps, but he claims the steak will taste better. Now she's a believer, too.

[tommy]

bushey, are *you* a believer? i've often wondered what would happen to a steak if you left it in the fridge for a few days. surely this has to have *some* similarities to the typical dry-aging. and if not, is there a simple process that one could follow at home to get decent results?

as an aside, i noticed this weekend that my local supermarket (Kings) is now carrying "aged beef." no additional details were given on the packaging as far as i noticed.

[Ron Johnson]

I think Alton Brown did a show on dry-aging beef in your fridge. Anyone?

[Hopleaf]

I think Alton Brown did a show on dry-aging beef in your fridge.  Anyone?

Yeah, I saw that episode. He took a rather large plastic food storage bin and inverted it. He put the beef cut (I think he was preparing a roast, so it might've been shoulder or something) and placed it on the lid. Then with the bottom of the bin, he cut air holes to let the meat breath. I'm pretty sure he left it in his fridge for several days, though sometime the pace of his show makes it difficult to follow. At any rate, when he removed it, the roast had an even dark discoloration all over the exterior, almost like beef jerkey. From there, I can't remember what he did...oh, wait, yeah, he put it in the oven.

[guajolote]

It was the prime rib show. I think the roast lost around 10% of its weight in 5 days.

[bushey]

tommy, I'm going to try it next time we have steak (if I can plan a week ahead) and afterwards I'll let you know if I believe. Think it would work with defrosted beef? I buy beef at a local wholesale/retail place and have them cut the steaks to order for the freezer. Based on the family's diverse tastes I usually get a whole rib eye, cut into 3/4" delmonico steaks, a sirloin strip cut into 1" steaks and a tenderloin cut into 1- 1 1/4" filets.

Our friend has also described, in gruesome detail, how green and slimy the sides of beef get after a few weeks of aging.

[tommy]

bushey brings up a point that's probably worthy of a thread on its own. i try not to freeze my beef anymore. i'm not sure why, but i don't. i have to think that it can't be a good thing.

[jamesmarsh]

I think Alton Brown did a show on dry-aging beef in your fridge.  Anyone?

Yeah, I saw that episode. He took a rather large plastic food storage bin and inverted it. He put the beef cut (I think he was preparing a roast, so it might've been shoulder or something) and placed it on the lid. Then with the bottom of the bin, he cut air holes to let the meat breath. I'm pretty sure he left it in his fridge for several days, though sometime the pace of his show makes it difficult to follow. At any rate, when he removed it, the roast had an even dark discoloration all over the exterior, almost like beef jerkey. From there, I can't remember what he did...oh, wait, yeah, he put it in the oven.

Heston Blumenthal suggests doing the very same thing for at least a week. You can read the full article here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,...,894686,00.html

[JAZ]

I think Alton Brown did a show on dry-aging beef in your fridge.  Anyone?

Jeffrey Steingarten also experimented with this and wrote about it. The piece is in his latest book.

[Peter B Wolf]

Two points:

1. You can't "age" previously frozen meats. It will only rot

2. Ageing must be done to "primal" cuts, not individual 'steaks'

Oh, one more point: I will stand corrected.

Not to forget: don't anyone take the accuracy in the aging "days" so serious, they are only a "window in time"

Also, places that age their meats, are very careful about accurate 'humiditity', natural light plus temperature.

Someone once told me, the "feed" and digestion of it, of the cattle has something to do to 'timely' aging

Any comments?

[tommy]

2. Ageing must be done to "primal" cuts, not individual 'steaks'

i see many individual steaks at steakhouses in cases and i presume they're in the aging process. am i wrong? gallaghers in NYC comes to mind.

[ngatti]

2. Ageing must be done to "primal" cuts, not individual 'steaks'

i see many individual steaks at steakhouses in cases and i presume they're in the aging process. am i wrong? gallaghers in NYC comes to mind.

Are those individual Tommy? I think the chef meant sub-primal. Which is what I recall viewing in the Gallagher's display window. Mostly 109's and 179's (NAMP codes for whole prime ribs and whole, on the bone, sirloins). Individual steaks are probably cut for service and are expected to be used rather than ageing further.

edit: "whole"

Nick

Edited March 3, 2003 by Nick Gatti (log)

[bushey]

Yeah, I didn't think it'd make sense to age previously frozen steaks. Will have to alter my plan of attack accordingly.

[tommy]

Are those individual Tommy?

well, yeah, that's my memory at least! i could be wrong. i haven't been to gallaghers for years, although i was just in vegas and thought i saw the same there. perhaps i'm out of my head, which is clearly probable.

[Huevos del Toro]

I think Alton Brown did a show on dry-aging beef in your fridge.  Anyone?

Dry Aged Standing Rib Roast with Sage Jus from Alton Brown's show.

Cigar Aficionado magazine has an interesting article on steak, including aging, titled "Ready for Prime Time".

edited to add "Ready for Prime Time" link.

Edited March 3, 2003 by Huevos del Toro (log)

[Peter B Wolf]

Cigar Aficionado magazine has an interesting article on steak, including aging, titled "Ready for Prime Time".

Great Article, thanks Huevos.

[hollywood]

Cigar Aficionado magazine has an interesting article on steak, including aging, titled "Ready for Prime Time".

edited to add "Ready for Prime Time" link.

Can't pull up this link. Does it still work? If so, can you re-post? Thanks.

[snowangel]

Two points:

1. You can't "age" previously frozen meats. It will only rot

2. Ageing must be done to "primal" cuts, not individual 'steaks'

Oh, one more point: I will stand corrected.

Not to forget: don't anyone take the accuracy in the aging "days" so serious, they are only a "window in time"

Also, places that age their meats, are very careful about accurate 'humiditity', natural light plus temperature.

Someone once told me, the "feed" and digestion of it, of the cattle has something to do to 'timely' aging

Any comments?

Yes. I asked my dad about this. He grew up on a farm in NE and slaughtered and butchered his first cow when he was 13 (4-H project). Years later, he married my mother, and put himself through grad school by working for her father (a grocer) as a butcher. This would have been after he was a marine aircraft carrier pilot, but before he created a department of agricultural economics at a univ. in Thailand.

This stint at the grocery would have been late 50's, early 60's, in Lincoln, NE, back in the days of a true, full-service grocery. Most of the beef they sold was not dry aged, but they did offer this as a service to their customers. Customers would request dry aged beef. My dad would go to a "cow place," help select and slaughter the cow. He'd haul the whole sides back to the grocery in the back of his 57 Chevy stationwagon; his brother following behind with more sides in the back of their folks pick-up if necessary.

They would hang them in the meat locker. Every so often, my dad would go in and scrape the mold off of them. # of days? Somewhat determined by schedule. Since he knew the guy at the "cow place" really well, they would usually do this on a Sunday afternoon. Since the grocery was closed on Sunday afternoons, he'd usually go and cut up the aged side on a Sunday, 4 weeks following the butchering, but, again, this depended on how many sides were hanging and aging. Light, humidity, temp, all played a part in this, and how many sides would greatly influence this.

Further, since they were a "full service" grocery, my dad knew exactly how every customer wanted their side cut, and how many/weight of each thing should be packaged, i.e., 2 t-bones per package.

For those customers who didn't have a deep freeze, they would store the meat, frozen, for each customer, labeled appropriately.

And, since this was back in the days when they delivered groceries, Mrs. X could call on a Friday, order her groceries and a particular quantity and cut of "her" meat and they would deliver it. My mom and I (a tot at this point) would deliver. My mom remembers that the wife of the guy who owned the Studebaker dealership would leave her back door open and we'd take the groceries in, and put those that needed to go in the fridge or freezer in the appropriate place (my mom also noted that we did not put away the non-perishables). My mom also remembers that every time we delivered groceries and she wasn't at home, the plates from the previous meal (unscraped) were always stacked inside the fridge.

So, that's what I know about aging beef. My dad says that doing it in your fridge will not present the same results. Odors, inability to control the temp of the fridge (because of how often it is opened), inability to control humidity (because of all of the other stuff in the fridge). It can make the beef taste better, but it is no substitute for beef aged in a meat locker fridge thing (techno talk).

[WHT]

it would be very hard to get a big fat Old Homestead-style filet mignon from aged beef. I think. Maybe someone has done it, but I've never seen it.

I have tried a couple of times. After the aging and trim you have rather narrow but thick hunks of meat. Too hard to cook at home much less a commercial kitchen. The waste is almost 30% after the trim but well worth it if you care to try.

[Nick]

Snowangel, you bring back memories of the fifties when my father would call Cumming's Market and ask the butcher to have a standing rib (first three ribs) cut for him to pick up on Saturday for Sunday dinner. Beautiful and full-flavored meat. I don't know if it's the breeding or the feed, but you can't get meat like that today.

Cumming's was also a small, full-service grocery at the corner of Main and Bridge Streets in Windsor, VT. The market has been gone for many years, but the bridge still stands. I can't count how many times I crossed that bridge. For pics see here.