TDG: Desperate Measures: Cheese & Crackers

[Fat Guy]

Give me bacteria or give me death.

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[=Mark]

So, what's the connection between Roxanne's and cheese?

[Fat Guy]

They make fake cheese

!

[mamster]

They serve fake cheese when there is good, raw, real cheese to be had.

edit: posted at the same time as FG

Edited February 24, 2003 by mamster (log)

[Fat Guy]

And they serve fake cheese for all the wrong reasons. There are good reasons to serve fake cheese: for example, in a post-apocalyptic situation if no real cheese is available, one might choose to serve fake cheese. Likewise, one might have a cheese allergy and choose fake cheese over ritual suicide. Maybe.

[fimbul]

If the cheesemakers are, as we are told, blessed, are the makers of fake cheese damned?

[Suzanne F]

Only if they try to get you to believe it's as good as the real thing.

Edited February 24, 2003 by Suzanne F (log)

[vengroff]

So why would fermented cashew paste be OK if raw milk cheese is not? Or is the nut cheese not actually fermented? Is fermentation allowed or not according to Roxanne's rules?

[maggiethecat]

Mamster: You live close to the border. OK, not so close. But:

I cannot name names...been away too long...but very good, very dry cider has been made in Quebec for years.

Next time you're in Vancouver, check it out.

[=Mark]

I've looked at the Live Foods site, and did not see any reference positive or negative to cheese. So why does the restaurant insist on serving the fake stuff? You would think that real cheese would fit right into the cockamamie philosophy. Even if the milk used was "ruined" by pasturization, you would have to think that the process of fermentation would introduce a new helping of magic pixie dust... Er, I mean enzymes...

Is it just me, or does the process of eating say, a live chicken sound kind of harrowing?

[JAZ]

So why would fermented cashew paste be OK if raw milk cheese is not?  Or is the nut cheese not actually fermented?  Is fermentation allowed or not according to Roxanne's rules?

It's not the fermentation that Roxanne objects to. It's the milk. Roxanne and the "raw" movement don't just espouse uncooked food. They espouse uncooked vegan food. So wine is okay. Fermented nuts are okay. Cheese is not.

(And not to turn this into a thread on Roxanne's or raw foods, but I'm so glad someone else realizes how utterly fatuous the raw food movement is. Thanks, Mamster. You made my day.)

[nightscotsman]

Another great article, mamster.

By the way, where can the "average Seattleite" find "slightly off-dry ciders from England, such as Weston's, and Normandy cider from France"? Without having to drive all the way to Cananda, of course.

[Schielke]

Excelent timing, I just picked up my monthly cheese ration from Whole Foods yesterday. I look forward to my own farmhouse cheddar when I return home. I must check out those crackers.

Ben

[MsRamsey]

I recently met my first raw-fooder in Berkeley. She looked just like I pictured they would (young white chick with nasty dreds)!!

I loved the article.

Washington Post link does not work. Is there any other way to read Wolke's article?

Kathy

[Kobicook]

MsRamsey,

try this one. It might.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...7&notFound=true

[MsRamsey]

That link worked. Thanks!

[Jinmyo]

Good stuff, mamster. And nice point about the "reasonable options" for drink with cheese.

[mamster]

By the way, where can the "average Seattleite" find "slightly off-dry ciders from England, such as Weston's, and Normandy cider from France"? Without having to drive all the way to Cananda, of course.

Whole Foods.

[mamster]

I look forward to my own farmhouse cheddar when I return home.  I must check out those crackers.

You make your own farmhouse cheddar? Maybe Kirkland is better than I thought.

Another good reason to make fake cheese is that you are a robot sent from a distant, evil planet to make humanity your slaves. I'm not naming names here, just saying, that's a good reason.

[Jason Perlow]

Dude, I am Cassein and Lactose intolerant and I would rather kill myself before eating fake cheese. I'd rather eat the real stuff and suffer (as I sometimes do).

[col klink]

By the way, where can the "average Seattleite" find "slightly off-dry ciders from England, such as Weston's, and Normandy cider from France"? Without having to drive all the way to Cananda, of course.

Dang, I never even thought to look up there for cider on my frequent visits.

[Schielke]

I look forward to my own farmhouse cheddar when I return home.  I must check out those crackers.

You make your own farmhouse cheddar? Maybe Kirkland is better than I thought.

Another good reason to make fake cheese is that you are a robot sent from a distant, evil planet to make humanity your slaves. I'm not naming names here, just saying, that's a good reason.

Yes, didn't you know this is a farmhouse style condo?

Ben

[Suzanne F]

Just because of how Mamster started his excellent article: I think the "raw food" movement is a lot of horsehockey -- and dangerous too -- but in good hands, vegan can be something pretty damn good. One of the most inventive, flavorful meals I've had was a special dinner for Women Chefs and Restaurateurs at Real Food Daily in Santa Monica. What I didn't learn until partway through was that it was vegan. So the "cashew creme fraiche" was pureed cashews, and not the least bit creme fraiche. No egg in the butternut squash flan. And so on for the whole meal. Too bad such inventive cooking seems not to be the norm.

Anyway, remember: "Cheese is milk's leap toward immortality." Bennet Cerf? Clifton Fadiman? One of them.

[Liza]

"That makes them -- you guessed it -- raw. If you don't like them, I'm sure we have some fermented cashew paste for you in the back. "

I'm sure you know this, but there are real reasons some of us cannot enjoy raw milk cheeses. I love them truly, madly, deeply... but they are dangerous to eat whilst pregnant.

[mamster]

Liza, I understand that no risk is preferable to small risk, but what we're talking here is a risk so small that if you enjoy these cheeses, there is no reason to avoid them other than superstition. All of the cheeses I mention in my article have been aged longer than six months and are absolutely loaded with lactic acid, creating an environment extremely hostile to pathogenic bacteria. It is considerably more likely that you will pick up a bug (like the dreaded Listeria) from pasteurized cheese than from one of these aged raw-milk cheeses (a category that also includes Parmigiano-Reggiano).

As for the young, soft raw-milk cheeses, I still think they're safe, but not as unambiguously safe as the hard cheeses. That said, most of the recent cheese-related cases of listeriosis in France were associated with pasteurized-milk Epoisses.

Note: If you punch "listeria farmhouse cheddar" in to Google, the first hit is an article by Steven Shaw.

Suzanne, I agree that vegan cooking can be great, too. Especially Chinese vegetarian cooking. What bothers me about Roxanne's is more the lying and posturing than the actual cooking.

As much as I enjoyed writing my column, I think Julie Powell of the Julie-Julia Project covered the gist in much more concise form:

Two things strike me about this unfathomably ignorant trend. The first is, how male it is somehow, how Fast and Furious. "You're a vegan. Big fucking deal -- I don't heat my food. Take that!" And wow, the power of self-righteousness. The guy says he's never felt so good -- well, yeah, because nothing feels better than being better than everybody else. And the third thing is -- yeah, I decided I had three points -- My God, how sad. There is precious little comfort in this world. Why take food, one of the very few simple comforts, and turn it into an obstacle? Why rob yourself of one of the few honest pleasures you'll ever know?