NYC Cheese Shops

[Fat Guy]

Steven, I never saw "Younger than 60 Days" written on a cheese label. But were you saying that it's French cheeses only that get stopped as opposed to young raw milk Italian? Furthermore, how would you know? I think Tony's scenario takes place among the real specialists. Or are you saying that the raw-milk, under 60 day stuff is put out with the legal cheese? If so, where?

Robert: They know that Brie, Camembert, or Epoisses equals less than the legally required number of days, so when they see "lait cru" written on those products it raises a red flag. They actually still allow some through because the pasteurization definitions here and in France allow for an in-between status. And of course a cheese older than 60 days is perfectly legal even if made from raw milk. The regulation only applies to cheeses aged less than 60 days. How do I know this? I interviewed the FDA's top guy awhile back, and I interviewed some off-the-record FDA sources as well. I specifically went hunting for illegal cheese and, while I found some being kept under the counter (very little), I found most of it right out on the shelves. I don't want to do any retailer a disservice by naming names online but just go into any, ahem, large Upper West Side cheese retailer and read all the packages carefully -- especially the ones that are sold as whole cheeses. Are you in the mood for Affidelice au Chablis? It's a great alternative to Epoisses and the authorities simply aren't hip to it. Look around and don't post about what you find.

[dck57]

Definitely Fairway over Zabar's - I buy a lot of Taleggio - it is often overripe (ammonia) at Z.

Fairway guys also know more.

Joe's on Macdougal - used to live down the street - mozzerella always great.

[robert brown]

Two cheeses that come in and that strike me as being close to what you find in France are "Le Chevrot" and 'Peraille de Brebis". Any other possible candidates for cheeses found in New York that are "as good as they get"?

[Wilfrid]

Some of the Berthaud products other than Epoisses should be considered. The "Affedelice au Chablis", which is as good as I've had in France; perhaps even more so the "Soumaintrain". I can't say I've eaten the latter in France, but it's hard to imagine it being much better. They each show up in D&D from time to time.

[Fat Guy]

Any other possible candidates for cheeses found in New York that are "as good as they get"?

Anything other than Brie, Camembert, or Epoisses. Once you get past those three, it's entirely possible to find the exact same specimen in New York of almost any cheese you'd find in its native place. Of course there are some limited production cheeses that are never exported, and there are some manufacturers that produce an inferior version for export (this is the case with Brie, Camembert, and Epoisses, certainly), but for the most part when you're talking about internationally known cheeses you can get the good product here. The real problem is lack of competent affinage. Pretty much nobody is doing this in New York at the level of a serious European cheese shop. Artisanal had the right plan, but the evidence on the plate raises questions about how effectively the plan has been implemented. The main New York cheese shops, however, do nothing at all on the affinage side and it's very difficult to compensate for that in the home. Some cheeses won't age properly at all once they've been cut up. Most people can't achieve the right temperatures and humidity conditions for affinage at home. It's a mess. But New Yorkers don't seem to care enough to force a change.

[Wilfrid]

Artisanal had the right plan, but the evidence on the plate raises questions about how effectively the plan has been implemented. ...But New Yorkers don't seem to care enough to force a change.

I agree about Artisanal. And perhaps people would care, but don't know enough. I see any number of shrivelled-up Epoisses being sold, and struggle to find English cheeses that aren't desperately over-aged.

[Suzanne F]

Today's NY Times has a writeup of a new one in trendy Williamsburg, the Bedford Cheese Shop, in a "funky little mall" at Bedford Avenue and North Fifth Street. "The cheesemonger, Frank Shuck, ... opened the shop with his partners after years at the temples of cheese: Fairway, Dean & DeLuca, Balducci's, and Murray's."

Maybe the Times was just waiting for you to ask, Fat Guy.

edited to add this link to the item.

Edited February 19, 2003 by Suzanne F (log)

[Suzanne F]

And listening to Arthur Schwartz just now, learned that for the next month or so, Citarella will be carrying a range of artisanal Italian cheeses.

[iain]

Has anyone been to the Bedford Cheese Shop in williamsburg yet? If so, how does it rate in terms of selection/quality/price?

[jeffperez62]

I see there has been no mention of Artisnal.

[La Niña]

Yes there was - scroll up. FG and Wilfrid both mentioned it.

[Wilfrid]

We were griping about how well kept some of the cheeses are. I wouldn't complain about the selection, though.

[Bux]

I only go to DiPalo's because I know that I will come home with great Parmesan and home made ricotta and mozzarella. If I want to add something else, I taste whatever I want there so that I slowly add additional Italian cheeses to my purchasing arsenal, even though they have a relatively small variety.

It may just be the way the new shop is set up, but it appears as if they have a larger selection of interesting cheese than they used to in the old shop. It may just be that the cases are larger and one cheese is not hidden behind another. I'm also not sure how much of a hit and miss situation it may be of catching some unusual cheeses. The selection of imported cheese is mostly Italian although they often have a good French bucheron and compte and, of course, gruyere and ementhaler from Switzerland. We had a nice, if bland, tomme de chevre--or whatever they call it in Italy--and asked about goat cheeses the other day. This time they brought out a much larger cheese, I'd say about four inches tall and a good nine inches in diameter with a crusty rind. We took a taste of the cold cheese and bought a wedge. We we tasted it again at room temperature we thought it was one of the best cheeses we've had in a long time. It went quickly and my fear is that it's one of those cheeses they may only come upon infrequently and that when I go back, they will be out of it, especially if I give the name away here.

Alright, it was called Costa Rossa and it came from the Piemonte region.

Edit Mar 2: I was told it was called "Costa Rossa." I suspect that's it's name. There's a metal tag on the side that reads "Caseificio Pier Luigi Rosso." There's also a paper label that's not in very good shape and incomplete on my hunk that may say something like "Castel... Rosso." Still an excellent cheese the second time around and I'm told it's regularly in stock.

Edit Mar 10: Went back for some more and was told this is a cow's milk cheese. I could have sworn it was a goat cheese. Anyway it's sold out at the moment, but should be back in stock soon.

Edited March 11, 2003 by Bux (log)

[Robert Nesta Marley]

(Did Steve Jenkins leave Fairway? I would go there if he hasn't; but I recall that he did).

no, not only has steve jenkins not left fairway, he hasn't left new york . and for that, we all must be grateful!

i recently hosted a tasting with him, at which he showcased 9 cheeses, almost all non-AOC/DO. his passion and commitment for the craft has got to be commended to the extent i've not considered before, and the degree to which he has the ability to communicate them to an audience, is, well, outstanding (he was a theatre major in college, apparently. ). if you're interested in the specific selections, email me. but his accompaniments were equally compelling, and improvisational (showcasing his true passion, in my opinion). in any case, ask for steve at fairway.....he's not one to hold back recommendations, and he's so damn honest, which is so integral at a cheese counter. really insist on speaking with him, if you politely can, and ask him about those south african peppers!.....

p.s. no, he's not updating "the cheese primer". but it is going into its 5th printing.......

[wingding]

I only go to DiPalo's because I know that I will come home with great Parmesan and home made ricotta and mozzarella. If I want to add something else, I taste whatever I want there so that I slowly add additional Italian cheeses to my purchasing arsenal, even though they have a relatively small variety.

Depalos' often imports Bitto and Formaggi di Fossa,two fairly rare in N.Y.cheeses worth trying.

Edited February 25, 2003 by wingding (log)

[Blondie]

Depalos' often imports Bitto and Formaggi di Fossa,two fairly rare in N.Y.cheeses worth trying.

I’ve bought Formaggio di Fossa at Citarella out here in the boonies. Both stores on the East End have a varied, well-kept selection. My favorite cheese guy, Walter, who worked at the East Hampton store during the summer, is at the UES location now (which I’ve never visited). I’m hoping he comes back during the season.

I like Murray’s for the decent selection of Irish cheeses, including Gubbeen and Durrus, which I’ve had trouble finding in good condition in NY.