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Don't Eat Animals that Defecate Where They Eat


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I'm probably going to be greeted with a chorus of "duh!s"  because I'm so incredibly late to this realization.  And I still fight the idea because of the massive fiduciary impact this realization will wreak on my bank account, but... they can plaster any certification they can possibly think of on farmed fish, but, no matter which way you cut it, all farmed fish is basically bred in a broth of it's own excrement.  

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Why pick on farmed fish? Wild fish don't exactly climb out of the water and visit a public convenience, do they? I've never seen cows abandon their fields to visit a bovine lavatory elsewhere. Nearly all animals shit where they eat - very few don't and most of those are creatures we don't normally eat.

Edited by liuzhou (log)
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...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

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5 hours ago, liuzhou said:

Why pick on farmed fish? Wild fish don't exactly climb out of the water and visit a public convenience, do they? I've never seen cows abandon their fields to visit a bovine lavatory elsewhere. Nearly all animals shit where they eat - very few don't and most of those are creatures we don't normally eat.

 

And wild , net-caught fish, are probably shitting all over each other in the net.  In the same position, I know I would.

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10 hours ago, liuzhou said:

Why pick on farmed fish? Wild fish don't exactly climb out of the water and visit a public convenience, do they? I've never seen cows abandon their fields to visit a bovine lavatory elsewhere. Nearly all animals shit where they eat - very few don't and most of those are creatures we don't normally eat.

Soylent green?

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51 minutes ago, AlaMoi said:

do not ever go to dairy farm....

Oh its the entire barnyard - goats, chickens, ducks etc. The walking poo talent - seems food in one end means elimination from the rear almost simultaneously. Bit different if the food is  contained, but unavoidable with foragers andgrazers I think.

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well, when cows come into the barn to be milked, heads stuck through the halter bars, tail end hanging out over the poop trough, feed dumped in the eating trough . . . there's nowhere for them to walk/stroll/saunter ala chickens.

your chicken/duck/goat point is entirely valid - but few are so constrained to an area as dairy cows.

of course, when 'backing out' cows are smart enough to not step in the poop trough - regrets, the poop does not always land precisely in the poop trough, so . . .

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On 4/4/2022 at 2:44 AM, liuzhou said:

Why pick on farmed fish? Wild fish don't exactly climb out of the water and visit a public convenience, do they? I've never seen cows abandon their fields to visit a bovine lavatory elsewhere. Nearly all animals shit where they eat - very few don't and most of those are creatures we don't normally eat.

 

You really don't see see the difference between animals that are able to shit and, to varying extents, move away from where they just shat, to animals that are raised in a pen of their own feces?

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On 4/4/2022 at 7:19 AM, gfweb said:

I can't think of many GI infections from fish bacteria besides Vibrio species.  But you may have a point, esp with sushi.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946678/ talks about fish gut bacteria

 

That's an interesting link, thanks.  

 

Just to be clear, for the most part, I'm not talking about the health impact of eating fish bacteria.  The whole purpose of defecation is to separate nutritional components from toxins.  There isn't an animal on this planet that is meant to live in a pool of it's own toxic waste.  The only way that fish farmers are able to keep the fish alive is by dumping obscene amounts of antibiotics into the pens. It's these antibiotics that we should be worrying about the most when we eat farmed fish (regardless of what the label says).  And it's the fact that unhealthy animals have a fraction of the nutrition that healthy animals possess.

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20 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

do not ever go to dairy farm....

 

Yes, I focused on farmed fish because that's the most egregious example of toxic exposure, but, the greater the confinement, the increased exposure to toxins, the  greater the need for antibiotics.

All doctors these days will think twice about prescribing an excess of antibiotics, and yet, without a thought, we'll eat animals that are brimming with the stuff.

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2 hours ago, scott123 said:

And it's the fact that unhealthy animals have a fraction of the nutrition that healthy animals possess.

 

How does that work?

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2 hours ago, scott123 said:

 

  The only way that fish farmers are able to keep the fish alive is by dumping obscene amounts of antibiotics into the pens. It's these antibiotics that we should be worrying about the most when we eat farmed fish (regardless of what the label says).  And it's the fact that unhealthy animals have a fraction of the nutrition that healthy animals possess.

 

Lots of unsubstantiated stuff in those  three sentences.  Got references?

 

In general, antibiotics in this setting are a growth enhancer and are put in feed, not tossed into the ocean.

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On 4/4/2022 at 4:44 PM, liuzhou said:

I've never seen cows abandon their fields to visit a bovine lavatory elsewhere.

@liuzhou there is the MooLoo experiment.

 

Reported in the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/cows-potty-trained-in-experiment-to-reduce-greenhouse-gas-emissions.

 

Full paper here: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(21)00966-0

 

This is a Skinneresque attempt to train calves to use the bovine equivalent of a litter box.

 

Make of it what you will.

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On 4/5/2022 at 11:13 AM, scott123 said:

 

That's an interesting link, thanks.  

 

Just to be clear, for the most part, I'm not talking about the health impact of eating fish bacteria.  The whole purpose of defecation is to separate nutritional components from toxins.  There isn't an animal on this planet that is meant to live in a pool of it's own toxic waste.  The only way that fish farmers are able to keep the fish alive is by dumping obscene amounts of antibiotics into the pens. It's these antibiotics that we should be worrying about the most when we eat farmed fish (regardless of what the label says).  And it's the fact that unhealthy animals have a fraction of the nutrition that healthy animals possess.

 

Well, that's brave. Do you really consider all non digested stuff as toxic? You should read about biology more in depth.

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I avoid farmed fish and shrimp if possible. The one thing that made a deep impression on me was not about toxins, but news that farmed salmon is actually grey in color, and they have to color it artificially. I have no idea if this is true. Also I find it greasy. Wild west coast salmon is fresh tasting and not greasy. The one exception I keep hearing about is farmed North American trout. Canadian and American raised trout have a good reputation. Here in North Carolina every restaurant serves a brand of trout called Sunburst, which I intend to try soon.

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41 minutes ago, Katie Meadow said:

I avoid farmed fish and shrimp if possible. The one thing that made a deep impression on me was not about toxins, but news that farmed salmon is actually grey in color, and they have to color it artificially. I have no idea if this is true. Also I find it greasy. Wild west coast salmon is fresh tasting and not greasy. The one exception I keep hearing about is farmed North American trout. Canadian and American raised trout have a good reputation. Here in North Carolina every restaurant serves a brand of trout called Sunburst, which I intend to try soon.

I suppose "artificial" is fair. Salmon is not innately pink, the pigmentation comes - in the wild - from the shells of the crustaceans they eat. Farmed salmon may be fed on similar crustaceans but that's costly and therefore rare, so the same pigment is drawn from other sources and added to their rations (which, again, vary widely depending on the farm's operator).

 

I'm told that pale-fleshed salmon were not uncommon back in the day, when salmon in general were more plentiful and occupied a broader range of habitats. I've heard a tale - probably apocryphal - that one cannery's brilliant (if unscrupulous) manager hit on the notion of assuring customers right on the label that their product was "Guaranteed Not to Turn Pink in Can!" Supposedly this led to a brief spike in sales, until rivals took them to court over it.

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“Who loves a garden, loves a greenhouse too.” - William Cowper, The Task, Book Three

 

"Not knowing the scope of your own ignorance is part of the human condition...The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you’re a member of the Dunning-Kruger club.” - psychologist David Dunning

 

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13 minutes ago, chromedome said:

I suppose "artificial" is fair. Salmon is not innately pink, the pigmentation comes - in the wild - from the shells of the crustaceans they eat. Farmed salmon may be fed on similar crustaceans but that's costly and therefore rare, so the same pigment is drawn from other sources and added to their rations (which, again, vary widely depending on the farm's operator).

 

What zoos do to keep their flamingos nicely rosy pink!

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On 4/5/2022 at 7:35 PM, FlashJack said:

@liuzhou there is the MooLoo experiment.

 

Reported in the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/cows-potty-trained-in-experiment-to-reduce-greenhouse-gas-emissions.

 

Full paper here: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(21)00966-0

 

This is a Skinneresque attempt to train calves to use the bovine equivalent of a litter box.

 

Make of it what you will.

Clear the Amazon of trees and the MooLoo only gets bigger. 

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1 hour ago, Katie Meadow said:

I'm never going to be demented enough to eat a flamingo. I hope.


Lobster & salmon will do … if not, let me send you a astaxanthin sample 🤗

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6 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

I avoid farmed fish and shrimp if possible. The one thing that made a deep impression on me was not about toxins, but news that farmed salmon is actually grey in color, and they have to color it artificially. I have no idea if this is true. Also I find it greasy. Wild west coast salmon is fresh tasting and not greasy. The one exception I keep hearing about is farmed North American trout. Canadian and American raised trout have a good reputation. Here in North Carolina every restaurant serves a brand of trout called Sunburst, which I intend to try soon.

 

Farmed Trout will get the color from same "artificial" colors.

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