Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Sicilian style pizza


Matthew.Taylor
 Share

Recommended Posts

Ok, I don’t know how many of you are from around Cincinnati or Southern Ohio, but there’s a restaurant called Adriatico’s here that I’m a big fan of. It’s most well known dish is what is called “Sicilian crust” pizza. It’s basically a thicker crust, crunchy on the outside and soft inside. 
 

I asked them if I could have the recipe for it, but they said they don’t give out recipes. As such I need to know if anyone has a good recipe for this kind of thing? Any help would be appreciated.

Edited by Matthew.Taylor (log)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm actually making a grandma pizza tonight. Which is similar to Sicilian, thicker crust, but toppings are put on in different order, etc.

There are many recipes online for this type of pizza. I'm a big fan of Tony Gemignani. I use his pizza Bible for a lot of my pizza dough and sauces (he has all the styles in there.) But, I used a recipe from a guy on YouTube (page is Kitchen & Craft).  It came out very tasty. He does have a Sicilian on there as well. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm assuming this is representative of Adriatico's?
 

Bearcat Pizza

 

I watched these as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73wQm9laHTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=typag4dy5_E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLtdMfKmyEg

Are you still in the area? I'm asking because reconnaissance can go a very long way towards replicating a pizzeria's pizza at home.  For instance, many pizzerias store their flour in a visible place. Same for tomatoes.  The ovens will tell you a great deal of the story. Watching (or filming) them form a pie can be invaluable.  

 

FWIW, this isn't NY Sicilian, but I have seen places in NY that do pies like this.  I might even call it slightly L&B-ish:

https://www.google.com/search?q=L%26B+pizza&sxsrf=AOaemvKxrlTnOXTFRLDdNCJY6FTeIrnjSQ:1639290010755&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj40JiWz930AhXlTN8KHUFBAlQQ_AUoAnoECAIQBA&biw=1286&bih=665&dpr=1

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, scott123 said:

I'm assuming this is representative of Adriatico's?
 

Bearcat Pizza

 

I watched these as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73wQm9laHTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=typag4dy5_E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLtdMfKmyEg

Are you still in the area? I'm asking because reconnaissance can go a very long way towards replicating a pizzeria's pizza at home.  For instance, many pizzerias store their flour in a visible place. Same for tomatoes.  The ovens will tell you a great deal of the story. Watching (or filming) them form a pie can be invaluable.  

 

FWIW, this isn't NY Sicilian, but I have seen places in NY that do pies like this.  I might even call it slightly L&B-ish:

https://www.google.com/search?q=L%26B+pizza&sxsrf=AOaemvKxrlTnOXTFRLDdNCJY6FTeIrnjSQ:1639290010755&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj40JiWz930AhXlTN8KHUFBAlQQ_AUoAnoECAIQBA&biw=1286&bih=665&dpr=1

 

That looks a whole lot like the pizza there! Judging by what pizza sauce they serve with their breadsticks, I believe the sauce is tomato paste based, so that’s something I know. I found a recipe for a focaccia type pizza dough, and I’ve heard Adriatico’s referred to that for awhile. It may be awhile before I can test it (I work a lot of overtime, and come home late a lot), but these are all good ideas. Thanks very much!

Edited by Matthew.Taylor (log)
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Matthew.Taylor said:

That looks a whole lot like the pizza there! Judging by what pizza sauce they serve with their breadsticks, I believe the sauce is tomato paste based, so that’s something I know. I found a recipe for a focaccia type pizza dough, and I’ve heard Adriatico’s referred to that for awhile. It may be awhile before I can test it (I work a lot of overtime, and come home late a lot), but these are all good ideas. Thanks very much!

 

Adriatico's is not a focaccia type of dough.  It's going to have much less water than a focaccia- and there's a really good chance that it will use stronger flour as well. Also, while there's nothing wrong with Grandma or Detroit style pizza, Adriatico's isn't Grandma or Detroit either.

It is a little Prince Street Pizza-ish, which is what Kenji was trying to replicate in the Serious Eats recipe posted above. Had Kenji actually succeeded in making his clone, that might have been a good jumping off point for you, but, unfortunately, Kenji being Kenji, he misses the mark entirely.

I've been doing a little more digging. In Adriatico's FAQ, it says that pizzas take "20-30 minutes to prepare and cook on average." That doesn't give us an exact bake time, but it helps.

I'm beginning to get a sense of where to start with an Adriatico's clone, but, I'd rather not guess at things (like flour) that you might be able to figure out with a trip there.  One other important piece of reconnaissance you can do would be to buy a dough ball.  Most pizzerias will sell dough, on it's own. Hopefully, they do as well.

Everything hinges on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.  If you really love Adriatico's and want to invest time and energy recreating it at home, I can help you get there.  But if you just want to be able to make a good square slice, without getting into too much complexity, then I think Detroit might be the way to go.  It won't have Adriatico's crunchy exterior, but it will still be pretty good.  Another option might be an existing Prince Street clone- created by someone that actually knows how to make pizza.  But that might get a bit more involved than Detroit.  

It all depends on how serious you are about recreating Adriatico's and how much time you're able to put into it.

Edited by scott123 (log)
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, scott123 said:

but, unfortunately, Kenji being Kenji, he misses the mark entirely.

 

I like it - drops mike!

 

236631262_PrinceSt.2018-07.thumb.jpg.ece2f0257d2b285af56943c7047b14ea.jpg

 

Not a great pic, but two slices of Prince St. pizza. Let's say - well reheated!

  • Like 1

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/12/2021 at 11:02 AM, scott123 said:

 

Adriatico's is not a focaccia type of dough.  It's going to have much less water than a focaccia- and there's a really good chance that it will use stronger flour as well. Also, while there's nothing wrong with Grandma or Detroit style pizza, Adriatico's isn't Grandma or Detroit either.

It is a little Prince Street Pizza-ish, which is what Kenji was trying to replicate in the Serious Eats recipe posted above. Had Kenji actually succeeded in making his clone, that might have been a good jumping off point for you, but, unfortunately, Kenji being Kenji, he misses the mark entirely.

I've been doing a little more digging. In Adriatico's FAQ, it says that pizzas take "20-30 minutes to prepare and cook on average." That doesn't give us an exact bake time, but it helps.

I'm beginning to get a sense of where to start with an Adriatico's clone, but, I'd rather not guess at things (like flour) that you might be able to figure out with a trip there.  One other important piece of reconnaissance you can do would be to buy a dough ball.  Most pizzerias will sell dough, on it's own. Hopefully, they do as well.

Everything hinges on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.  If you really love Adriatico's and want to invest time and energy recreating it at home, I can help you get there.  But if you just want to be able to make a good square slice, without getting into too much complexity, then I think Detroit might be the way to go.  It won't have Adriatico's crunchy exterior, but it will still be pretty good.  Another option might be an existing Prince Street clone- created by someone that actually knows how to make pizza.  But that might get a bit more involved than Detroit.  

It all depends on how serious you are about recreating Adriatico's and how much time you're able to put into it.

Oh I definitely want to recreate it, buying a dough ball never crossed my mind when I was there last. 20-30 minutes, huh? I wonder if that includes making the dough?

 

My time is rather limited at the moment though, due to heavy seasonal overtime at work, but I’ll put in what time I can. Any help you can give will be appreciated.

Edited by Matthew.Taylor (log)
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Matthew.Taylor said:

Oh I definitely want to recreate it, buying a dough ball never crossed my mind when I was there last. 20-30 minutes, huh? I wonder if that includes making the dough?

 

My time is rather limited at the moment though, due to heavy seasonal overtime at work, but I’ll put in what time I can. Any help you can give will be appreciated.

 

The 20-30 minutes definitely doesn't include making the dough.  Dough takes a while. It has to mix, and then proof.  The vast majority of pizzerias don't proof the dough for very long, but it's almost always at least an hour.  Making the dough in the morning, and then having it available throughout the day is pretty common.  If a place is churning out an extraordinarily high number of pies, then they might make multiple batches of dough during the day. Pan pizza typically has an extra proof in the pan.  Even that's not included in the 20-30 minutes.  The 20-30 minutes is most likely just for topping and baking.

I'm about 98% certain that Adriatico's is using the same dough for all their pizzas.  When you ask for the dough ball, if they just give you dough, you might ask if it's the bearcat  (large sicilian) dough or if it's for NY.  They might then confirm that it's all the same- which, to an extent, helps a little bit.

 

Pictures help. Photos of the dough ball, if you can get a closeup/macro of their crumb (cross section of a slice), that will tell us a bit about the dough. If you can film yourself stretching the dough into the pan, that would be nice.  Definitely weigh the dough.  Also, you'll need to get the dimensions of the pizza so you can get the right size pan.

When you go, look for bags of flour.  From photos, it doesn't look like the kitchen is exposed, but they might store the flour someplace visible.  Go to the bathroom.  Sometimes you can catch a glimpse of things on the way to the bathroom.  See how accessible the dumpster is.   Pizzerias have been known to get angry at folks looking through their trash, so this is something you want to be careful about, and, if it's not accessible and/or you feel like there's a chance you might get caught, then don't do it.  Occasionally, though, folks have clocked dumpsters and found various refuse to the side or the covers have been open and the contents were fairly quickly and easily identified.  Obviously, bring your camera :)

As I said before, Prince Street is probably going to be pretty close, and, fortunately, Prince has had a lot of exposure over the years. I'd take a look at these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVoEzahr_QU (Do not follow the presenter's recipe, just watch the stuff they film in the pizzeria).

 

This shows you the pan (they call it iron, but it's a steel pan), it shows him stretching the dough, and it shows how they proof the dough in the pan- and how the dough looks after it's been proofed.

This gives you another glimpse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEJLHopLTCc

Other than Kenji's ill fated attempt, there really is no existing recipe.  This covers some fairly broad strokes:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=59014.0

Obviously, once you have something Prince-ish, it will need tweaking to make it more Adriatico's-ish, but Prince is a good starting point.

But, first, recon.  They might not sell dough, the kitchen/flour might be entirely closed off and the dumpster could very well be off limits.  If you strike out completely, it's not the end of the world, but, recon is absolutely worth a shot.

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Matthew.Taylor said:

The flour they use is All-purpose


Are you certain?  Was this something a waitperson told you or did you catch a glimpse of a bag of flour?

 

Did you inquire about buying dough? :)

 

There's two seeds at the bottom of the photo of the sauce.  Also, in the pizza photos there's the occasional fleshy bit of non-paste tomato. In NY, a few places will combine paste with canned tomatoes.  This could be what Adriatico's is doing.  If it is a combo, it might also be cooked. Cooking is a lot of labor, so you don't find it that often, but, some places cook their sauce.

 

Are you sure that the dipping sauce is the same sauce that's on the pizza?  It's hard to tell, but, it almost appears like the sauce on the pizza might be a tiny bit wetter.  I've seen places in my area that will give you a different sauce for dipping than they do for the pies- the dipping sauce is usually more of a pasta sauce.

Really nice photos.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, scott123 said:


Are you certain?  Was this something a waitperson told you or did you catch a glimpse of a bag of flour?

 

Did you inquire about buying dough? :)

 

There's two seeds at the bottom of the photo of the sauce.  Also, in the pizza photos there's the occasional fleshy bit of non-paste tomato. In NY, a few places will combine paste with canned tomatoes.  This could be what Adriatico's is doing.  If it is a combo, it might also be cooked. Cooking is a lot of labor, so you don't find it that often, but, some places cook their sauce.

 

Are you sure that the dipping sauce is the same sauce that's on the pizza?  It's hard to tell, but, it almost appears like the sauce on the pizza might be a tiny bit wetter.  I've seen places in my area that will give you a different sauce for dipping than they do for the pies- the dipping sauce is usually more of a pasta sauce.

Really nice photos.

The waiter told me. I’m pretty sure the sauce is the same, though they could water it down with something before using it on the pizza.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

a primary identifier of Sicilian 'style' is a thick puffy crust - AP flour would be quite suitable for that.

the square/rectangular shape is the second identifier, but that shape is not exclusive to Sicily.

 

the island of Sicily itself has (at least) two major versions, and then there is the non-Italian New York Sicilian style.

the toppings - especially the type of cheese - are the major distinguishing ingredients.

 

just saying . . . from personal traveling/eating experiences....

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/21/2021 at 6:38 AM, Matthew.Taylor said:

The waiter told me. I’m pretty sure the sauce is the same, though they could water it down with something before using it on the pizza.


It depends on the place, but, in most pizzerias, wait staff/front of the house is isolated from the nuts and bolts of food prep- and in some pizzerias, doughmaking is confined to only one or two people- or even sometimes it's farmed out to another entity, such as a local bakery.  How confident did they sound?  

I did a little more digging and found this:

 

https://www.facebook.com/SliceofColumbus/videos/970963109695786


A little more reconnaissance might help- like getting a dough ball, but it sounds like you're ready to start making pizza.

What type of pan are you using and what are it's dimensions?  Do you have a digital kitchen scale for weighing the ingredients?
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, scott123 said:


It depends on the place, but, in most pizzerias, wait staff/front of the house is isolated from the nuts and bolts of food prep- and in some pizzerias, doughmaking is confined to only one or two people- or even sometimes it's farmed out to another entity, such as a local bakery.  How confident did they sound?  

I did a little more digging and found this:

 

https://www.facebook.com/SliceofColumbus/videos/970963109695786


A little more reconnaissance might help- like getting a dough ball, but it sounds like you're ready to start making pizza.

What type of pan are you using and what are it's dimensions?  Do you have a digital kitchen scale for weighing the ingredients?
 

I’m definitely gonna go again, though it may not be until next Monday at the earliest. I’ll definitely remember the dough ball. I do have a kitchen scale, not a big one but it will do.

 

Also, I just remembered, Adriatico’s refers to themselves as a New York Pizzeria (and sports bar) so this very well COULD be NY Sicilian style.

Edited by Matthew.Taylor (log)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...