Fish etc in China

[liuzhou]

These are Chub Mackerel (Scomber japonicus). In Chinese, they have many names, but the one preferred here is 花池鱼 (huā chí yú). Also, known in English as the Pacific mackerel, they are closely related to the Atlantic mackerel. Despite the japanicus in the scientific name, they are found (and farmed) worldwide and often turn up in canned fish products and cat food.

 

That said, they are high in nutritive value. Those in the image are about 8 to 10 inches in length.

 

[farcego]

On 4/12/2022 at 11:47 PM, liuzhou said:

These are Chub Mackerel (

). In Chinese, they have many names, but the one preferred here is 花池鱼 (huā chí yú). Also, known in English as the Pacific mackerel, they are closely related to the Atlantic mackerel. Despite the japanicus in the scientific name, they are found (and farmed) worldwide and often turn up in canned fish products and cat food.

 

That said, they are high in nutritive value. Those in the image are about 8 to 10 inches in length.

 

 

Never heard of farmed mackerel (and I spent too many years doing research in one of the finest Marine institutes of the world).

Back to the fish, I love mackerels on the oven. I have often found it as underappreciated because it use to be inexpensive in seafood markets where it appear (like southern Europe). Had to fish them by myself while in Australia

[liuzhou]

2 hours ago, farcego said:

Never heard of farmed mackerel (and I spent too many years doing research in one of the finest Marine institutes of the world).

 

Mackerel is most certainly farmed, although most is still wild caught. I have visited a mackerel farm in Japan and seen it for myself.

[farcego]

2 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

Mackerel is most certainly farmed, although most is still wild caught. I have visited a mackerel farm in Japan and seen it for myself.

Out of curiosity, How are they typically coocked/eaten around China (well, around where you live, China is simply huge....)?

 

BTW I have always think that some of them (like mid sized Jack mackerels) should be terrific prepared as kippers are made in UK (no like the 'kippers' sold in tins and found elsewhere). Never had a chance to try (no equipment or skills to do so)

[liuzhou]

On 4/15/2022 at 6:58 AM, farcego said:

Out of curiosity, How are they typically coocked/eaten around China (well, around where you live, China is simply huge....)?

 

Mackerel is not a hugely popular fish here and the stores only occasionally have them fresh. Most are sold salted and dried or canned. Salted mackerel is particularly popular around Shaoxing and Hangzhou in Eastern China. It is very pungent and a bit of an  acquired taste.

 

Salted Dried Mackerel

 

Also, sometimes I see them as frozen steaks.

 

Frozen Mackerel Steak (defrosted)

 

I've never been served them by friends. Not do I recall seeing them on a restaurant menu. So, I don''t really know what people do with them. I cook them, but not in a Chinese way. I would guess they are gutted then fried whole (head on / bone in) or braised in a spicy sauce.

 

I'll try to find more information.

Edited April 16, 2022 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

I'm going to throw this into the mix, but I have no idea what they are. They were labelled as 根子鱼 (gēn zǐ yú) which means 'stickleback' or 'minnow', which these clearly aren't. They are about 8 inches / 20 cm long. Maybe mutant minnows!

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by liuzhou (log)

[catdaddy]

16 hours ago, liuzhou said:

I'm going to throw this into the mix, but I have no idea what they are. They were labelled as 根子鱼 (gēn zǐ yú) which means 'stickleback' or 'minnow', which these clearly aren't. They are about 8 inches / 20 cm long. Maybe mutant minnows!

 

 

Mackerel of some sort?

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by catdaddy
spelling (log)

[liuzhou]

13 minutes ago, catdaddy said:

Mackerel of some sort?

 

 

Probably related, yes, but with so many (>30) fish known as mackerel, which species remains a mystery.

[Martin Fisher]

17 hours ago, liuzhou said:

Maybe mutant minnows!

They may or may not be part of the minnow family, which is huge.

Carp are a member of the minnow family.

But yeah, they "look" like an oily saltwater fish.

[liuzhou]

12 minutes ago, Martin Fisher said:

They may or may not be part of the minnow family, which is huge.

Carp are a member of the minnow family.

But yeah, they "look" like an oily saltwater fish.

 

Yeah, definitely saltwater fish.

[liuzhou]

One of my favourites of late is 鲟鱼 (xún yú), Acipenser sturio, sturgeon.

 

This one kilo, sustainably farmed monster comes to me for 107元 / $15 USD or would do if I asked.

 

 

 

This is a dense meaty fish, similar to pork in feel and can be cooked in many ways including steaming, poaching, frying, grilling etc.

 

Instead, I buy this 熏鲟鱼 (xūn xún yú), hot smoked sturgeon. It comes from the top caviar producer in China (the world's largest caviar producer), Kaluga Queen. 

 

 

At 22元 / $3 for 50g,it isn't cheap but so good I can't resist. I buy 10 packs at a time.

 

 

Of course I can also get the caviar. 104元 / $14.50 for 10g. A birthday treat.

 

 

Even better, have both together.

 

 

 

Edited March 16 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

Rice flower carp, S: 禾花鱼; T: 禾花魚 (hé huā yú), Cyprinus carpio is farmed in the rice paddies of southern China and SE Asia.

 

 

The fish are not only a crop but act as insecticides by eating the bugs and also fertilise the rice with their waste.

 

 

Dongfried rice flower carp

 

Most of the farmers are from China's ethnic minorities, around here the Miao and Dong peoples and they have developed delicious recipes to utilize them.

 

Miao steamed rice flower carp fillets.

 

 

[liuzhou]

This is 红三鱼 (hóng sān yú), Nemipterus hexodon or ornate threadfin bream.

 

 

Line or trawler caught in southeast Asia and southern China. Mine come from the Beibu Gulf off where China meets Vietnam.

 

 

Nice meaty white fish similar to cod. Good for fish and chips.

 

 

Edited March 26 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

A local rarity.

 

S: 青竹鱼; T: 青竹魚 (qīng zhú yú), Cyprinidae Spinibarbus, green bamboo fish is a freshwater fish mainly found in Guangxi and Yunnan. It occupies fast moving waters, including the river flowing through Liuzhou. It is vegetarian.

 

 

It is also farmed but is a slow grower, so less desirable to fish farmers wanting a quick return - i.e. most of them.

 

 

[liuzhou]

I mentioned tilapia in this post.

 

Here is a variation on that theme. S: 黄立鱼; T: 黃立魚 (huáng lì yú). Yellow tilapia. This is a yellow bellied and yellow finned mutation of the common tilapia, Oreochromis mossambicus. It is otherwise identical in use and taste. Suddenly fashionable for no good reason that I can see.

 

 

Edited April 4 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

S: 花古鱼; T: 花鼓鱼 (huā gǔ yú) or S: 花鼓鱼; T: 花鼓魚 (huā gǔ yú), Trachidermus fasciatus, the somewhat off-puttingly named rough skin sculpin, is another freshwater fish once among the most popular in China.

 

However, thanks to ‘development’ along the lower Yangtse river where it thrived, the fish is now endangered in China. It is still found in southern Guangxi, but in very limited numbers. Some are imported from Korea and Japan.

 

At the equivalent of $30 USD in markets, it is the most expensive freshwater fish I’ve encountered. I’ve never eaten it, so can’t comment on flavour. Some local restaurants have it on their menu at more than double the market price. $60+ for a fish that is only typically 11.5 cm / 4½ inches long. The OED describes it as a 'small worthless fish'.

 

 

Edited April 4 by liuzhou
typo (log)

[liuzhou]

Now a marine fish.

 

This is 泥猛(鱼) (ní měng (yú), literally ‘mud fierce (fish)’), Siganus spinus, Little Spinefish, Scribbled Rabbitfish, Blunt-nosed Spinefoot, Bluntnosed Spinefish, Marbled-spine Foot, Scribbled Spinefoot, Spiny Rabbitfish, or Spiny Spinefoot. Native to the coastal reefs of western Pacific from Japan, down through SE Asia and to Australia, it reaches a length of up to 28 cm / 11 inches but is more commonly around 18 cm / 7 inches.

 

Map: AquaMaps (2019, October). Computer generated distribution maps for Siganus spinus (Little spinefoot), with modelled year 2050 native range map based on IPCC RCP8.5 emissions scenario. Retrieved from https://www.aquamaps.org.

The species is known for often having a maze-like patterned skin, which unfortunately doesn’t show up on my picture. A better example is here.

Care is need in handling them as the fins are poisonous and can inflict painful stings.

 

They aren’t particularly common on fish counters here but are frequently used in fish pastes. There is some aquaculture, but it is limited.

 

Edited April 5 by liuzhou (log)

[Dr. Teeth]

On 4/4/2024 at 1:13 AM, liuzhou said:

S: 花古鱼; T: 花鼓鱼 (huā gǔ yú) or S: 花鼓鱼; T: 花鼓魚 (huā gǔ yú), Trachidermus fasciatus, the somewhat off-puttingly named rough skin sculpin, is another freshwater fish once among the most popular in China.

 

However, thanks to ‘development’ along the lower Yangtse river where it thrived, the fish is now endangered in China. It is still found in southern Guangxi, but in very limited numbers. Some are imported from Korea and Japan.

 

At the equivalent of $30 USD in markets, it is the most expensive freshwater fish I’ve encountered. I’ve never eaten it, so can’t comment on flavour. Some local restaurants have it on their menu at more than double the market price. $60+ for a fish that is only typically 11.5 cm / 4½ inches long. The OED describes it as a 'small worthless fish'.

 

 

Don’t mean to interrupt your flow, it’s a fascinating thread, but I thought sculpins were ray finned fish.    That doesn’t seem to be one.    Are you sure your identification is accurate?

[liuzhou]

21 minutes ago, Dr. Teeth said:

Don’t mean to interrupt your flow, it’s a fascinating thread, but I thought sculpins were ray finned fish.    That doesn’t seem to be one.    Are you sure your identification is accurate?

 

No. As I said in my first post of this topic

 

Quote

A lot of the fish and other marine animals I see here, I can’t identify, even if I know the local name. The same species may have different names in different supermarkets or wet markets. And, as everywhere, a lot of fish is simply mislabelled, either out of ignorance or plain fraud.

 

However, that is how it is described in all my Chinese sources; the 'sculpin' designation comes from them. There is nothing in any English sources that I could find to confirm or deny.

If you know of any reliable sources I may have missed I'll be happy, as always, to edit my post.

 

Thanks.

 

[liuzhou]

No identification doubts about this species but some confusion.

 

 

S: 鲑鱼; T: 鮭魚 (guī yú) is the semi-official name for salmon but the sound-alike loanword from English, S: 三文鱼; T: 三文魚 (sān wén yú) is more common.

 

 

Where the confusion comes in is that although some species of Pacific salmon do reach west to China, especially S: 大鳞大麻哈鱼; T: 大鱗大麻哈魚 (dà lín dá má hǎ yú), Oncorhynchus tshawytscha, king salmon aka Chinook salmon, the fish sold here is always Salmo salar, North Atlantic salmon from the other side of the world. It certainly doesn’t swim here.

 

Most salmon in China is imported from Norway, making it an expensive choice for the dinner table. It is only found in the more upmarket supermarkets and in restaurants, especially Japanese restaurants (nearly all of which are China owned and staffed).

 

 

Supplies from Norway were seriously disrupted when China threw a temper tantrum after the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to imprisoned Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo. Imports were unofficially embargoed for three years and trade talks frozen. Liu died in prison in 2017 of liver cancer, aged 61.

 

In 2021, it was announced that China had successfully harvested its first batch of 3,000 farmed salmon from a Yellow Sea fish culture zone. Efforts to build a full scale salmon farming program are continuing.

 

Meanwhile we are back to eating salmon from the fjords of Norway. There was a dip in supply and therefore consumption during the height of the pandemic but it has now recovered.

 

 

In my experience, most of the salmon is eaten as sushi* or in other Japanese style preparations. None of my Chinese language cookbooks have recipes. Recipes on the internet are ‘China inspired’ rather than Chinese. Many are just recipes for other fish with salmon substituted for native fish. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

 

Salmon and sole ramen

 

Smoked salmon can be bought online, but is not of great quality. In 28 years, I've only seen it once in a supermarket. Unfortunately, I bought it. Having been raised by Scotland's premier salmon rivers, my expectations were high. Never have they fallen so low. It was rank. 

 

* Sushi was introduced to Japan from China (but not using salmon) in the 8th century CE then adapted and elevated to its current prestige level.

 

 

Edited April 10 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

If I tell you that the third character in the name S: 沙丁鱼; T: 沙丁魚 (shā dīng yú), 鱼or 魚means fish, then you might be able to guess which fish I’m talking about from the pronunciation of the two preceding characters - 沙丁 (shā dīng). Think phonetically.

 

OK. It means ‘sardine’, for which Chinese has adopted this as a loanword from the English using the characters they consider closest in Chinese phonology.

 

But that doesn’t help much; sardine isn’t a species of fish as such, but a group of different species in the herring family, Clupeidae. What you think of as sardines may be a very different species from what I think. For me, sardines are Sardina or Clupea pilchardus, the European sardine found in the waters illustrated in the map below.

 

Public Domain Map

 

My main, usually reliable Chinese-English dictionary claims that 沙丁鱼 means Clupea pilchardus. However, the size and shape of these is different and it’s unlikely that China would be importing sardines from Europe when the waters off the coast of southern China is home to Sardina hualiensis, a Pacific sardine also known as Taiwan sardinella.

 

Distribution of Sardina hualiensis, Taiwan sardinella.  AquaMaps (2019, October). Computer generated distribution maps for Sardinella hualiensis (Taiwan sardinella), with modelled year 2050 native range map based on IPCC RCP8.5 emissions scenario. Retrieved from https://www.aquamaps.org.

 

So, I’m betting these are those or another of the Pacific varieties such as S. brachysoma. Their descriptions more closely fit.

 

Chinese sardines

 

Interestingly, I’ve never encountered China processed canned sardines. Although canned sardines are available in some stores, they are never Chinese. We get ‘555’ brand from the Philippines

 

 

and ‘Smiling Fish’ brand from Thailand.

 

 

Few supermarkets carry canned sardines; almost unthinkable in the west.

 

I buy Portuguese canned sardines in boxes of 20 cans from an expensive import store.

 

 

Happiness is sardines on toast.

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

I’ve been trying for years to identify this species to no avail. In Chinese, they are S: 小公鱼; T: 小公魚 (xiǎo gōng yú), which simply means ‘little common fish’. They are sold here alongside dried fish of all sizes, but are in fact deep fried whole and ungutted and sold as S: 油炸小公鱼; T: 油炸小公魚 (yóu zhá xiǎo gōng yú), ‘deep fried small common fish’. There is an indication that they are river fish, so I’m calling them ‘minnows’.

 

 

The are certainly small enough, ranging from approximately 25.4mm / 1 to 50.8mm / 2 inches in length.

 

 

They are added to congee and stir-fries to give a savoury taste or enhance umami.

 

 

Edited April 10 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

 

On its own, 银鱼 / 銀魚 (yín yú) refers to ‘Chinese whitebait‘ but with the addition of 大 (dà), meaning large the whole phrase refers to S: 大银鱼; T: 大銀魚 (dà yín yú), ‘silver fish’. Unfortunately, that English name is used to refer to several unrelated species. What I’m thinking of here is Neosalanx tangkahkeii, sometimes also called Chinese ice fish.

 

Whatever name you prefer, they are freshwater fish found in lakes, both natural and man made such as reservoirs, as well as in the Yellow and Yangtze Rivers in central China. They are only usually around 64 mm / 2½ inches in length and only live for a year. Live they are transparent, but turn white on dying.

 

 

They are sold frozen or dried and used in soups or with eggs in omelettes where they cook in seconds. I’ve also had them battered and deep fried then scattered over vegetables. They are rather mild flavoured.

 

 

The dried version is often misnamed as ‘white anchovies’. They are unrelated to anchovies.

 

They are also exported to Japan to be used as sashimi.

 

[liuzhou]

S: 花斑鱼; T: 花斑魚 (huā bān yú) or S: 石斑鱼; T: 石斑魚 (shí bān yú), Epinephelus areolatus, Flower Grouper, Areolate Grouper; Malay: Ikan Kerapu Bintik Bulat / Ikan Kerapu Ekor Putih; Indonesian: Kerapu /Kerabu.

 

Other English names include yellow-spotted rock cod, areolate rock cod, green-spotted rock cod, squaretail grouper or squaretail rock cod.

 

 

This multi-monikered. popular seawater fish, related to sea bass, is caught wild in waters off Guangxi’s southern coast near the Sino-Viet border, but is found in SE Asia and down to Australia’s northern coastline, as well as around India an East Africa.=. It is particularly common in Malaysia and Indonesia.

 

AquaMaps (2019, October). Computer generated distribution maps for Epinephelus areolatus (Areolate grouper), with modelled year 2050 native range map based on IPCC RCP8.5 emissions scenario. Retrieved from https://www.aquamaps.org.

 

The fish has a mild flavour and large white flakes. Due to its numbers, it is also a cheaper option than many similar fish.

 

Considered to be best steamed with ginger whole or sliced in soups, in SE Asia it is a common choice at wedding banquets.

 

Edited April 12 by liuzhou (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I love the taste of grouper but I had a pet grouper for about a year, which makes me hesitate to order grouper at a restaurant.