Pacojet Competitor? The Ninja Creami

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, jedovaty said:

I have it set to "Freeze" 🥶

 

You may need to set it to ludicrous freeze.

 

The freezer of my refrigerator/freezer never gets colder than -9C/15F and is more often warmer.  Too warm to store ice cream, certainly too warm for CREAMi containers.  This is why I have a blast freezer in the living room.

 

I suggest you invest in a freezer thermometer.  No need to be fancy.  I am very pleased with the Thermoworks Spot, which comes in nine vibrant colors to match your ice cream.

https://www.thermoworks.com/spot/

 

Currently on sale I note.

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

15 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Yeah - realized there are a lot of toes in the pics! 

 

Breaking down particle size - not like using a melanger. 

 

Did you refreeze after each spin?

 

[sverreef]

3 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

So I added about 3 tbsp of oil to the top of the pistachio in the freezer and this morning I ran it once through the pacojet and here is the beautiful paste I was left with. Smooth as a babies butt!

 

 

This looks very similar to a roasted and salted pumpkin seed praline paste I tasted at a Norwegian michelin star restaurant last summer. The praline paste isn't visible in the picture, but the flavor combination of strawberry (sorbet) and roasted pumpkin seeds was absolutely amazing. I made a small batch of it last fall, and I'll definitely make it again now that the strawberry season is right around the corner. Probably not in the Creami though...

[Kerry Beal]

5 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Did you refreeze after each spin?

 

Nope - was pretty warm after the last spin!

[jedovaty]

23 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

You may need to set it to ludicrous freeze.

 

The freezer of my refrigerator/freezer never gets colder than -9C/15F and is more often warmer.  Too warm to store ice cream, certainly too warm for CREAMi containers.  This is why I have a blast freezer in the living room.

 

Tested temperatures in three parts of fridge: bottom (where I have space for the tubs), middle, and top 8hr each.  Bottom average was 3.2F, middle average -2.5F, and top -1.5F.  I'm not complaining about the consistency of the ice cream frozen from the bottom, it was great.  I do have a tub chillin' on the top shelf now, but this time it includes the modernist ingredients so not sure it'll be an exact comparison.  The range falls within line of the creami manual.

 

Also of entertaining note, I happened to notice the freezer temp can be controlled.. the buttons are in the fridge part, and I've been staring at them for the last five years without realizing this.  Or maybe I had, because I read the manual when I first moved here, set it to "0F", and never looked back.  I do use the immediately adjacent buttons to defrost and quick chill stuff, very nifty feature of this old fridge.  This whole experience reminds me of childhood when I'd yell across the house to mom asking here where the milk was because I couldn't find it. 🙃

[jedovaty]

Followed the MP recipe for pistachio gelato, but used peanut butter instead, and I forgot to add their "perfect gelato" product to my cart so used their "perfect ice cream" one instead.  Also froze at the top shelf in my freezer, which is at -1.5F (previous two were done on bottom, which is around +3.2F). 

 

The first spin cycle was rough, the machine hopped around a bit and I could smell a little motor.  It did require a respin, but the resulting texture was amazing, smooth, and like what I'd imagine fresh gelato to be.  The recipe, however.. way too sweet for me, almost cloying, and had an almost powdery mouthfeel on the aftertaste?  I'm still reading up on the science of this stuff, how much sugar would you all recommend I leave out to make this less sweet but retain the texture?

[Kerry Beal]

6 minutes ago, jedovaty said:

Followed the MP recipe for pistachio gelato, but used peanut butter instead, and I forgot to add their "perfect gelato" product to my cart so used their "perfect ice cream" one instead.  Also froze at the top shelf in my freezer, which is at -1.5F (previous two were done on bottom, which is around +3.2F). 

 

The first spin cycle was rough, the machine hopped around a bit and I could smell a little motor.  It did require a respin, but the resulting texture was amazing, smooth, and like what I'd imagine fresh gelato to be.  The recipe, however.. way too sweet for me, almost cloying, and had an almost powdery mouthfeel on the aftertaste?  I'm still reading up on the science of this stuff, how much sugar would you all recommend I leave out to make this less sweet but retain the texture?

Maybe replace some of the sucrose with other sugars? Here's @UnConundrum's treatise on sugars in ice cream - Under-Belly on sugars in ice cream.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Kerry Beal]

Looks like the Creami has some competition too - and endorsed by Dana Cree (actually more than endorsed - looks like she is one of the partners involved in the manufacture)  - Frolic

 

However you buy their 'pods' of mix I guess instead of making your own. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Kerry Beal (log)

[jedovaty]

3 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Maybe replace some of the sucrose with other sugars? 

 

 

I looked this up.. regular sugar is sucrose.  I recall reading it is sweeter, thank you for the reminder.  Now to figure out what other sugar I can use (maybe I'll try coconut sugar, or ???).

[jedovaty]

9 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Looks like the Creami has some competition too - and endorsed by Dana Cree - Frolic

Their response to questions about whether people can make their own cracks me up: "Currently the best way to make Frolic is with our fresh Pods. You will be able to make your own if you reuse the pods but I assure you they will not taste the same, nor as fresh."  Interesting, they are going for a gilette business model.

[chromedome]

9 hours ago, jedovaty said:

Their response to questions about whether people can make their own cracks me up: "Currently the best way to make Frolic is with our fresh Pods. You will be able to make your own if you reuse the pods but I assure you they will not taste the same, nor as fresh."  Interesting, they are going for a gilette business model.

I would have said Keurig, but the principle is the same I guess.

[jedovaty]

12 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Here's @UnConundrum's treatise on sugars in ice cream - Under-Belly on sugars in ice cream.

Oh!  You edited the post after my post, thank you for the link, that is very helpful!!  That site has a strawberry sorbet recipe I hope to try some day, but not sure I'm ready to get that deep into the hole yet, would have to buy more of those sugars (I only have dextrose right now, but I'm a bit afraid because I read here recently someone said it "tastes like ass" so... yikes?).

Also, I thought the underbelly site was actually @paulraphael for some reason, I will correct to unconundrum from now on. 

 

3 hours ago, chromedome said:

I would have said Keurig, but the principle is the same I guess.

Funny, I've shared the Frolic link Kerry provided now with a few people, and when topic got to discussing the business, all brought up "like keurig" .  I've been taught the technical term is "razor and blades" business model, but I guess keurig really has made such an impact... perhaps the caffeine addiction plays a part, certainly more pleasurable than nicks, scratches, and ingrown hairs from daily chore of shaving 😛

[dtremit]

3 hours ago, chromedome said:

I would have said Keurig, but the principle is the same I guess.

 

I'm getting big Juicero vibes from this.

 

I can't imagine buying a $350 machine dependent on some unknown company's proprietary pods. Doesn't much matter how good they are if you can't buy them.

 

As an aside, it looks like the Frolic is more similar to the Pacojet in two (relatively unimportant) ways — the "bayonet" mount for the pod holder, and the way the blade mounts to the motor shaft. The Chris Young video upthread noted that those were two areas where the Creami changed the Pacojet design to make it a bit more consumer friendly. I'm curious to know if that means the Frolic is basically a carbon copy of the Pacojet from the (now expired) patent.

[blue_dolphin]

21 minutes ago, dtremit said:

it looks like the Frolic is more similar to the Pacojet in two (relatively unimportant) ways — the "bayonet" mount for the pod holder, and the way the blade mounts to the motor shaft. The Chris Young video upthread noted that those were two areas where the Creami changed the Pacojet design to make it a bit more consumer friendly.

 

I think the way the Creami blade attaches to the lid rather than directly to the shaft is very smart.  Any spatters on the lid are easy to rinse off at the sink.  

 

25 minutes ago, dtremit said:

I can't imagine buying a $350 machine dependent on some unknown company's proprietary pods. Doesn't much matter how good they are if you can't buy them.

Totally agree!  Maybe they hope to partner with other companies to offer branded pods.  Not that I'd be interested in that either. More fun to make my own stuff!

[cdh]

On the subject of making your own, I've been playing with my Creami a bit, and have made some good stuff.  I've been very lazy base-wise, not getting around to cooking up anything custardy, and not feeling like consuming lots of heavy cream recently... so my base has been 50/50 by volume of almond milk and blueberry kefir.  Just that, with a drizzle of blueberry syrup and a couple of tablespoons of sugar in made a nice batch when run on the Light Ice Cream setting, but the leftovers froze up like a rock and needed reprocessing the following evening.  So I decided to try playing with stabilizers, and happened to have some xanthan handy, so the next batch was 50/50 with syrup, and sugar came out better, but still didn't keep a nice texture after a day in the fridge.  So batch 3 was the same base, 1/4t of xanthan,  but with 3 tablespoons of sugar, a squeeze of lemon juice and a tablespoon of gin added.  Bingo!  I think the extra sugar plus the alcohol is what makes it nice and scoopable out of the freezer the next day. 

[mgaretz]

1 hour ago, cdh said:

I think the extra sugar plus the alcohol is what makes it nice and scoopable out of the freezer the next day. 

 

Instead of alcohol, try some vegetable glycerin.  I use 1 tbs in a Creami sized batch.  I also use Paul Raphael's recommended stabilizer blend of 2 parts carboxymethylcellulose to 1 part each of lambda carrageenan and guar gum.  I use about 1.5 tsp. 

[mgaretz]

3 hours ago, jedovaty said:

Also, I thought the underbelly site was actually @paulraphael for some reason, I will correct to unconundrum from now on.

 

 

Underbelly is Paul.

[Kerry Beal]

1 hour ago, mgaretz said:

 

 

Underbelly is Paul.

He’s got more than 1 eG name!

[edsel]

I just came across this review on the Wired Magazine site. The reviewer, Joe Ray, struggled a bit adjusting recipes for the machine, but he seems to like it overall.

 

I like the sound of the Campari sorbet, after he adjusted the amount of alcohol.

[andrewk512]

8 hours ago, edsel said:

I just came across this review on the Wired Magazine site. The reviewer, Joe Ray, struggled a bit adjusting recipes for the machine, but he seems to like it overall.

 

I like the sound of the Campari sorbet, after he adjusted the amount of alcohol.

 

I am not sure where he got the impression that you cannot use conventional ice cream recipes in the Creami

[cdh]

Sounds like the Wired guy read what Ninja sent along as documentation.  Since I got the refurb with no documentation, I can't confirm or deny that they tell you not to use normal ice cream recipes... but reading that review makes it sound like that is a thing said in the docs. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, cdh said:

Sounds like the Wired guy read what Ninja sent along as documentation.  Since I got the refurb with no documentation, I can't confirm or deny that they tell you not to use normal ice cream recipes... but reading that review makes it sound like that is a thing said in the docs. 

 

I went looking for my Ninja literature but I couldn't find it.  I can't say I recall much about the Ninja ice cream recipes beyond that they were simplistic and didn't turn out all that well for me.  I recall the Ninja recipes were discussed to death upthread.

 

[jedovaty]

If only companies would embrace technology and put their manuals on line.

 

Oh, wait.

https://sharkninja-cookingcircle.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/05194707/NC300Series_IB_E_F_S_A4_MP_Mv7_LR.pdf

 

Also available here: https://ninjacreami.com/

😛

[blue_dolphin]

3 hours ago, cdh said:

Sounds like the Wired guy read what Ninja sent along as documentation.  Since I got the refurb with no documentation, I can't confirm or deny that they tell you not to use normal ice cream recipes... but reading that review makes it sound like that is a thing said in the docs. 

This is the recipe booklet that came with mine.  Also this safety info and a Quick Start Guide.

It’s been a while since I read them but I don't recall any admonition against using normal ice cream recipes.  Maybe it’s there and I missed it. I suppose he has a point that the recipe booklet lacks complete instructions in developing your own recipes for the unit but they do mention how to adjust sweetness, an area where he wanted more handholding. 
Their recipes tend to be quite simple and perhaps that’s why he figured he could wing it but there are dozens of Campari orange sorbet recipes online that could have suggested appropriate ingredients amounts. 

[andrewk512]

19 hours ago, jedovaty said:

If only companies would embrace technology and put their manuals on line.

 

Oh, wait.

https://sharkninja-cookingcircle.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/05194707/NC300Series_IB_E_F_S_A4_MP_Mv7_LR.pdf

 

Also available here: https://ninjacreami.com/

😛

 

I can't be bothered to open it 😛

 

 

I imagine they said something along the lines of the machine not making ice cream like conventional ice cream machines (i.e it doesn't churn liquid mixtures) and then this was misinterpreted that you need a whole different recipe structure.

 

The one thing the Ninja does need a different approach for is mixtures that separate over time - my watermelon sorbet separates into two colors with slightly different textures due to the slow freezing process. There are different approaches online to combat this. One is to watch it like a hawk and shake it up right as it's about to freeze solid. I imagine there are some molecular solutions out there