The incredible amazing Chefmate saucepan and more

[tim]

Sam, Derek,

Yesterday I saw a 10" Inocuivre Induction skillet at TJ Maxx. The weight made it clear that this was a copper pan with stainless cladding BUT the encapsulated disc base was much thinner than the base on the splayed saucier that I had purchased. Worse still, the base was way too small for the pan.

This is an interesting mystery.

Tim

[Melic]

Sam, Derek,

Yesterday I saw a 10" Inocuivre Induction skillet at TJ Maxx.  The weight made it clear that this was a copper pan with stainless cladding BUT the encapsulated disc base was much thinner than the base on the splayed saucier that I had purchased.  Worse still, the base was way too small for the pan.

This is an interesting mystery.

Tim

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I have this pan. I got it either at TJ Maxx or Marshall's well over a year ago. It's 10" and very flared; the inside diameter on the cooking surface is about 7 3/4" and the diameter of the magnetic disc base is about 6 3/4". I don't know if the base is too small for the pan (it certainly is way smaller than the max diameter at the top of the flair, but about in keeping with my similarly sized Sitram which, being less flared, has an interior diameter of a little more than 8" on the cooking surface and a little more than 7" on the disc. The Sitram is one of the newer ones with a copper-encapsulated magnetic/induction capable disc - I forget the model name.)

I always thought that when discs are copper-encapsulated they are thinner than when they are aluminum-encapsulated. That's been explained, so I don't have a problem with the thinness of the disc.

But this de Buyer pan has just never captured my fancy, even though it's induction capable. Nothing wrong with how it cooks; who knows - maybe it's because I think the handle's ugly. It's residing in the "gets dusty" part of the pan drawer. I have no good explanation for this, however (the lack of use, not that things get dusty ).

[Melic]

The Chefmate tri-ply (i.e. straight gauge) cookware set that was $99 is now on sale through the Target website (and amazon) at a clearance price of $49.99

I think the Amazon reviewers are confusing the copper disc bottom Chefmate pans with the straight gauge ones. Based on what I read here a couple of years ago, I bought the straight gauge set when it was $99 and nothing has delaminated or in any way failed to perform. At $49.99 the triply set is an even better deal.

The copper bottom set is on clearance, too. Evidently Target's phasing both out.

There are some significant problems with this cookware. People on Amazon have reported bubbles forming in between the layers, and the base delaminating while cooking something that can be  VERYdangerous. One person said the sound was like a firearm going off. Read the reviews before purchasing.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00...en-20/ref=nosim

Eddie Schoenfeld and I discovered a product being sold at Target under the brand name Chefmate.

It is a medium saucepan with a copper bottom, extremely heavy-gauge stainless steel construction, and big-ass serious rivets attaching the handle to the pot. The lid fits like a glove. The surface is polished to a high shine. This utensil gives every indication of having been made in Switzerland, Belgium, or Germany and were I to pick it up and take a guess I'd say it's a $120+ piece of equipment. If I saw it on sale for $80 I'd seriously consider buying it.

At Target, this item, which is made in Hong Kong, costs $19.95.

I cannot emphasize enough how remarkable this is. I have never in my life seen a product retailing for $19.95 that contains this sheer quantity of metal. It is not just regular heavy-duty. It is fully as heavy-duty as the world's most expensive stainless cookware lines.

It wasn't easy to get to the bottom of all this, but some creative Google searching led me to the Web site of a company called Herald Group. This seems to be the wellspring of all things Chefmate, and I've also noticed that Chefmate products are available from retailers other than Target. Moreover, the same products may be sold under different labels elsewhere. It's hard to tell.

There's no way to predict how this utensil will hold up. However, the only thing I can imagine going wrong with it would be something in the base if it is poorly engineered and somehow warps. But at $19.95 what's the risk? If you get a year of use out of it you're all set. And I would say chances are better than 50-50 that this item will outlive you.

I will report back as this situation develops. I plan on acquiring a variety of pieces of Chefmate at Target soon so as to put the whole line through its paces.

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[tim]

De Buyer's Inoxcuivre line is made in a variety of weights and thicknesses, but I have never seen anything indicating the specifications you are citing.  The "Inocuivre Induction" line seems to simply have an additional base of magnetic steel.  It doesn't seem credible that you could have bought cookware that truly had these specifications (including a base with 5.2 mm of copper!) for what would be described as "almost nothing."  Such a pan would be among the most expensive on the market, simply due to the cost of the materials.  Unfortunately, a lot of cookware sellers and stores promote bogus specifications.

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Sam,

I have remeasured the de Buyer Inoxcuivre pan and it definately has 2.5mm cladding. Hopefully, you can read the thickness in the picture on this link showing a micrometer measurement (0.104") of the pan.

I also remeasured the base of the pan with two rulers and a sight line. The pan appears to have a total base thickness of 5.56mm. Hopefully you can read the thickness in the picture on this link showing the sightline measurement (0.22') on the pan.

The following links show the pan and a picture showing the added disc bottom.

Under use we find the handle transmits way too much heat. There is no vent at the base of the handle which holds the heat. Other than that, it is wonderful.

Yes, it does exist and may be the only one. Not bad for $29.95.

Tim

[DerekW]

Hi Tim

Thanks for taking the pictures - what you have looks very much like that one pan I saw with the Inocuivre labeling.

Looking at the edge of the rim, shown in the "two rulers" image, the exposed core appears to be grey, like aluminum. Three layers of metal: lining, core, outer cladding.

If you compare the Inocuivre to the image of a Falk [stainless lined copper] pan, you can make your own assessment: Lining, solid outer.

Even assuming I've interpreted your picture correctly, it's not to say that the Inocuivre pan is 'bad' - All Clad have made themselves a solid fortune selling clad aluminum pots and pans

I'll be fascinated to hear the outcome if you ever do the 'pan comparison get together' suggested up-thread....

cheers

Derek

[tim]

Hi Tim

Thanks for taking the pictures - what you have looks very much like that one pan I saw with the Inocuivre labeling.

Looking at the edge of the rim, shown in the "two rulers" image, the exposed core appears to be grey, like aluminum. Three layers of metal: lining, core, outer cladding.

If you compare the Inocuivre to the image of a Falk [stainless lined copper] pan, you can make your own assessment: Lining, solid outer.

Even assuming I've interpreted your picture correctly, it's not to say that the Inocuivre pan is 'bad'  - All Clad have made themselves a solid fortune selling clad aluminum pots and pans 

I'll be fascinated to hear the outcome if you ever do the 'pan comparison get together' suggested up-thread....

cheers

Derek

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Derek,

That is an interesting point about the edge of the pan and I agree that it looks like a three layer pan. de Buyer claims that the Inocuivre line has 2mm copper with a 0.5mm stainless lining.

This is a one quart pan and weighs 1 pound 13 ounces. The heft is definitely much greater than an aluminum pan. The pan is also quite nose heavy, even with its rather heavy handle.

I would love to show the pan to Sam. Alas, he does not respond to emails.

Tim

Edited January 11, 2007 by tim (log)

[tim]

Hi,

Thanks to Derek's common sense and some weight comparisons, I realize that the de buyer Inoxcuivre (or Inocuvre) has 3 layer cladding with an Aluminum core. The disc base is definitely conductive and I have no idea what it has inside, probably more aluminum.

It is really strange given the de Buyer catalog descriptions. I'm still guessing that it was a prototype.

Now I have two negatives, that hot handle and copper skin on the outside. Still a remarkable pan at a give-away price.

Tim

[slkinsey]

I would love to show the pan to Sam.  Alas, he does not respond to emails.

Sorry! My life has been exceptionally busy of late.

There is unfortunately really no way to know what the pan is really made of short of buying one and cutting it in half with a band saw (something I would very much like to do to all cookware as part of writing a book on the subject!). Commonsense weight comparisons, however, do seem to indicate that it isn't copper. The price makes a lot more sense now, although as you say it's still a pretty great bargain despite the maintenance hassle of the outer cladding.

WRT the catalog descriptions, I am forever finding items of cookware sold with specifications that are not the true specifications -- although it is not usual for the misleading specs to come from the manufacturer (it is more usual for companies with something to hide to simply refuse to give specifications, like All-Clad now does). But I have seen plenty of 2.0 mm cookware sold as 2.5 mm.

[alwang]

I just picked up the CM 16-qt SS stockpot from Target on the recommendations in this thread. A couple thoughts:

1) The Target website lists it at $29.99, but my local Target sold it for $39.99. I noticed in tiny text on the Target website, it says pricing may vary by location. Still pretty cheap, but not a crazy-good deal.

2) I'm a little surprised at how light it is: it doesn't feel nearly substantial as I was expecting. It says it's 18/10 steel, .6mm. I wonder if they're now being made cheaper?

3) I like the shape quite a bit, as it's a good ratio of diameter to height.

4) The glass lid really doesn't seem to fit all that well, and is quite loose.

In summary, I'm a little disappointed, but I'm still going to keep it. Why? It seems to be the only 16-qt pot at that price with riveted handles, and for a pot that large, you want to make sure the handles hold. I don't want to stir up the rivets vs. welds debate, but let's just say the particular welds I was inspecting on other similarly-priced stockpots did not inspire confidence.

The only other one I was considering was this deal on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/MIU-Stainless-22-Qua...8&s=home-garden

...but the height of that thing would make it pretty tough to manuever in my sink.

-a

[Frege]

Just noticed this thread. Been using the Chefmate copper disk bottomed skillets for about a year not, and I too love them. They are my first foray into stainless surface cooking, and it is hard to imagine how All-Clad, Sitram, etc could be much better. Also, I was wondering about the issue of delamination. I've used these pans very hard, including high heat use, and they keep coming back for more! I noticed that the complaints on Amazon all date from 2004 - was there just a bad manufacturing run? Has anyone heard or read about problems with these pans over the last year or so?

[Matt_T]

On the subject of budget stainless pans.....yesterday I picked up a Tramontina 5 qt Deep Saute at Costco. For about $30 you get what looks like a well-formed stainless pan with a very thick, full diameter clad aluminum bottom. Flared pouring rim with rolled edge. Riveted, cast stainless stainless stay-cool handle. Diameter close to 12" but with the flared rim should cook more like a 11" saute. 3 1/8" deep.

Haven't cooked with it yet but the nicest-made product I've seen near this price. I think Amazon has the same pan for $50.

MT

[eskay]

Interestingly enough, I bought a pan that looks a lot like these Chefmate ones at Loblaws (a Canadian grocery store chain) bearing their President's Choice brand. It felt heavy, had a really thick bottom and a tight fitting (glass) lid, so I bought it. I wonder if it's made by the same people, but I don't know how I would find out; even the stamp on the bottom is PC.

[Matt_T]

Update on the Tramontina Deep Saute....I made some sauce yesterday and I think it's a keeper. Very even heating on my big gas hob - butter came to foam, and over medium heat a thin layer of sauce came to simmer all across the bottom of the pan at about the same time. The pan took a long time to heat, too, which i think indicates high heat capacity and bodes well for searing and browning.

The higher than normal sides (3 1/8") prevented even a speck of simmering tomato sauce from splattering onto my stovetop, and allowed me to stir two helpings of gnocchi into the sauce with vigor without flipping them any out of the pan. When my wife gets off her current meatless kick we'll see how the high sides affect browning, but with the high sides and slightly domed lid it should be a nice pan for stovetop braising.

I happened by Target recently and checked out the Chefmate copper-bottom skillets. They look ok, I like the handles but I'd really prefer a rolled lip. The bare stamped edge is pretty rough and will scratch other pans and cabinetry. Target also had a Revere 12" for a few dollars more that appeared to be better made and had just as thick a bottom. It doesn't have copper but the Chefmate label says "two ply bottom with aluminum and copper" so I'd guess the copper outer layer is only a fraction of a mm thick - how could it be more, for $20? If the copper is only a skin the Chefmates should cook about the same as aluminum disk pans of similar thickness that lack the copper pretense.

The Costco Tramontina is better made than any of the stainless pans I saw at Target. Made in Brazil, too, which made me happy - I try to avoid products from mainland China. I'm beginning to think this pan is a real steal at $30.

MT

Edited July 24, 2007 by Matt_T (log)