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SEEKING RECOMMENDATIONS for chocolate melters or tempering machines and vibrating tables


LOUROUX
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My question about the Mol d'Art is not on message, but this seems a logical place to post it:

 

I use a Chocovision Delta to temper and hold chocolate to make shells.  The problem with dumping them is that the bowl of the Delta is round and its diameter is not quite large enough.  The mess is almost more than even I can endure.  I have tried various methods of dealing with the issue, with no success.  What strikes me as workable would be to have a Mol d'Art melter beside the Delta, dump molds into the Mol d'Art, keep the chocolate at the right temperature, then, when the chocolate left in the Delta is getting low, ladle the melted chocolate back into it.  I generally follow a similar method to deal with overtempering--have some untempered chocolate ready to add to the Delta.  One question comes to mind about the Mol d'Art, and I haven't been able to locate the information:  How much chocolate is required to have it work correctly?  I don't know where the thermometer that regulates the thermostat is located, so don't know whether I could turn it on, then begin dumping the molds into it immediately or would have to wait for a certain quantity of chocolate to accumulate.

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2 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

What strikes me as workable would be to have a Mol d'Art melter beside the Delta, dump molds into the Mol d'Art, keep the chocolate at the right temperature, then, when the chocolate left in the Delta is getting low, ladle the melted chocolate back into it.  I generally follow a similar method to deal with overtempering--have some untempered chocolate ready to add to the Delta.  One question comes to mind about the Mol d'Art, and I haven't been able to locate the information:  How much chocolate is required to have it work correctly?  I don't know where the thermometer that regulates the thermostat is located, so don't know whether I could turn it on, then begin dumping the molds into it immediately or would have to wait for a certain quantity of chocolate to accumulate.

 

I've got a 6kg Mol d'Art melter. I'm not sure how the Delta works, but if you want to ladle chocolate from the melter to it that is precisely (for example within half a degree or something) some temp then you might be calling trouble. The melter requires tweaking and testing, and you're unlikely to get it precisely correct each time in my opinion. If it's not so precise whether the chocolate going into the Delta is slightly over or untempered, then I suppose this might work. But I wouldn't expect to get the melter to give you precisely the temp that you want.

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2 minutes ago, EsaK said:

 

I've got a 6kg Mol d'Art melter. I'm not sure how the Delta works, but if you want to ladle chocolate from the melter to it that is precisely (for example within half a degree or something) some temp then you might be calling trouble. The melter requires tweaking and testing, and you're unlikely to get it precisely correct each time in my opinion. If it's not so precise whether the chocolate going into the Delta is slightly over or untempered, then I suppose this might work. But I wouldn't expect to get the melter to give you precisely the temp that you want.

No, I'm not looking for the same temp.  In fact, when I add untempered chocolate to cope with overtempering, I want to be sure it is NOT in temper and have discovered that the tempered chocolate in the Delta is quite forgiving about the temperature of the added chocolate.  In other words, I can add chocolate to the Delta that is as high as 100F/37C without causing the choc to go out of temper.

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3 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

No, I'm not looking for the same temp.  In fact, when I add untempered chocolate to cope with overtempering, I want to be sure it is NOT in temper and have discovered that the tempered chocolate in the Delta is quite forgiving about the temperature of the added chocolate.  In other words, I can add chocolate to the Delta that is as high as 100F/37C without causing the choc to go out of temper.

 

Alright, if you can work with for example 35-37C going into the Delta then in my opinion it ought to work. Though as said, you'll need to trial and error to see where you need to put the dial on the melter to get to that temp range after dumping choc into it and having it there for whatever time your production would usually dictate. Certainly not an automatic tempering machine level of a solution, but I think better than making a mess by dumping into the Delta. 

 

Also, I'd get at least the 6kg one, which is large enough to dump 275x175 moulds. Think the smaller models don't work with those moulds, if you happen to have any.

 

Another idea, get the Control Freak (I'm not sure if other induction cooktops with similar temp control exist and would work, for example the Rocook) and big pot(s) that allow you to dump your moulds into them. Gives you precise temp control, helps with other cooking/caramels, potentially easier pouring back into the Delta (IMO easier and cleaner to pour from a big pot than the gastronorm container of the melter). I don't know what the price differential would be for you (whether you could find a discount on either, more likely the CF), but maybe something to consider.

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6 hours ago, EsaK said:

@pastrygirl any reason(s) why you're looking at the EX models, instead of One/Legend? Unless you have a kitchen where you can do the water cleaning of the machine (i.e. a floor drain) or see big benefits from being able to add inclusions (nuts, nibs etc) to the machine itself, I haven't been able to figure out the other real benefits? Curious to hear if there are other points. 

 

"Please note that this model does not have the removable screw feature and is not recommended for any chocolate that has additional inclusions, oils, or flavors added to it." 

 

Although I don't currently add inclusions directly to my chocolate, I do make a couple of Christmas items with added oil flavors (orange & peppermint).  The removable screw just looks so much easier to clean. 

 

It's hard.  I quit my day job almost 7 years ago and have been scraping by, paying myself close to nothing while slowly building business and always trying to improve efficiency in methods and packaging.  I started out with beautiful, expensive custom packaging that was a pain in the butt at any kind of volume and a 6 kg melter.  Graduated to the 24 kg melter and EZ temper a few years ago but still thinking about every stir, every ladle, every stopping to temp the chocolate.  10 seconds times a thousand adds up.  My kitchen gets really hot in the summer & I was looking at air conditioning so I could do more production year-round but now I'm thinking a Selmi would be a better investment - make more product, make more money, do the AC in 2022. 

 

I agree with Kerry that I'll probably want the enrober - yeah, of course I do, who doesn't? 😂

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1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

One question comes to mind about the Mol d'Art, and I haven't been able to locate the information:  How much chocolate is required to have it work correctly?  I don't know where the thermometer that regulates the thermostat is located, so don't know whether I could turn it on, then begin dumping the molds into it immediately or would have to wait for a certain quantity of chocolate to accumulate.

 

The heater and thermostat are on the bottom of the unit, small volume is fine.  They heat relatively slowly but I think if you kept the melter around 40C it would keep your dumped-out chocolate warm enough to add back to the Delta.

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12 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

"Please note that this model does not have the removable screw feature and is not recommended for any chocolate that has additional inclusions, oils, or flavors added to it." 

 

Although I don't currently add inclusions directly to my chocolate, I do make a couple of Christmas items with added oil flavors (orange & peppermint).  The removable screw just looks so much easier to clean. 

 

It's hard.  I quit my day job almost 7 years ago and have been scraping by, paying myself close to nothing while slowly building business and always trying to improve efficiency in methods and packaging.  I started out with beautiful, expensive custom packaging that was a pain in the butt at any kind of volume and a 6 kg melter.  Graduated to the 24 kg melter and EZ temper a few years ago but still thinking about every stir, every ladle, every stopping to temp the chocolate.  10 seconds times a thousand adds up.  My kitchen gets really hot in the summer & I was looking at air conditioning so I could do more production year-round but now I'm thinking a Selmi would be a better investment - make more product, make more money, do the AC in 2022. 

 

This is something I hope am corrected if I've gotten this wrong. As far as I've understood, the removable screw really only helps the cleaning if you have a floor drain and a space that can handle getting wet so that you can hose the machine down as here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0lrePB0KOg. If you don't have that space, my understanding is that you don't really gain much if anything from that feature. The screw pump is rather large too, unlikely to fit into most home sinks? Which, if correct, makes me think that cleaning the One/Legend models are as easy as the EX models, you just need to run chocolate through it until you think you don't have whatever you want out of it is not present anymore (and come up with a use for that chocolate that has some leftover oil/nuts/other type of chocolate in it to avoid waste). 

 

If you or anyone knows the above not to be correct, please do correct me! 

 

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1 hour ago, EsaK said:

 

Alright, if you can work with for example 35-37C going into the Delta then in my opinion it ought to work. Though as said, you'll need to trial and error to see where you need to put the dial on the melter to get to that temp range after dumping choc into it and having it there for whatever time your production would usually dictate. Certainly not an automatic tempering machine level of a solution, but I think better than making a mess by dumping into the Delta. 

 

Also, I'd get at least the 6kg one, which is large enough to dump 275x175 moulds. Think the smaller models don't work with those moulds, if you happen to have any.

 

Another idea, get the Control Freak (I'm not sure if other induction cooktops with similar temp control exist and would work, for example the Rocook) and big pot(s) that allow you to dump your moulds into them. Gives you precise temp control, helps with other cooking/caramels, potentially easier pouring back into the Delta (IMO easier and cleaner to pour from a big pot than the gastronorm container of the melter). I don't know what the price differential would be for you (whether you could find a discount on either, more likely the CF), but maybe something to consider.

 

I have seen many comments that the temp control on the Mol d'Art is not very accurate.  For my purposes that would not be a huge factor, but it's a disappointing flaw in a device that so many people swear by.  There is also the issue that, for what it does, the Mol d'Art is expensive.

 

Thanks for the suggestion of the Control Freak.  I like the idea that it would have so many other uses.  I would, of course, have to get a large enough container for dumping, and it's always going to be difficult to dump something rectangular into a round bowl.  Another issue I would need to look into is how tall the combination of induction cooktop plus container would be; the Mol d'Art has the advantage that it is not as tall.

 

31 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

The heater and thermostat are on the bottom of the unit, small volume is fine.  They heat relatively slowly but I think if you kept the melter around 40C it would keep your dumped-out chocolate warm enough to add back to the Delta.

 

Thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know.  Have you found the inexact temperature control extremely problematic?  What about emptying the Mol d'Art container?  Does it have an edge that allows for pouring without making a mess?

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47 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

 

I have seen many comments that the temp control on the Mol d'Art is not very accurate.  For my purposes that would not be a huge factor, but it's a disappointing flaw in a device that so many people swear by.  There is also the issue that, for what it does, the Mol d'Art is expensive.

 

Thanks for the suggestion of the Control Freak.  I like the idea that it would have so many other uses.  I would, of course, have to get a large enough container for dumping, and it's always going to be difficult to dump something rectangular into a round bowl.  Another issue I would need to look into is how tall the combination of induction cooktop plus container would be; the Mol d'Art has the advantage that it is not as tall.

 

 

Thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know.  Have you found the inexact temperature control extremely problematic?  What about emptying the Mol d'Art container?  Does it have an edge that allows for pouring without making a mess?

 

Agreed, it is disappointing that for the price of Mol d'Art, you don't get a more accurate machine. Plus as you say, it's largely single purpose (though of course you can use it keep cocoa butter container, airbrush/gun or whatever you want at an OK temp. 

 

I have a pot that is 30-31cm in diameter, and you can dump a 275x175 mould in it (it's just the size that the corners of the mould lay at the edges of the pot). A 32-33cm pot would probably be very close to ideal, though mine works fine too. The CF is about 11cm tall, and my pot is about 16cm, total of about 27cm from the tabletop. For reference the 6kg melter is about 14cm tall. 

 

I wasn't asked and others may disagree, but in my opinion the melter container is not the best to pour from. It is as attached, and has this rim around it. If you pour from it, I don't think you can avoid having choc on that rim that you need to then wipe. Not terrible to be sure, but I think pouring from a pot is much easier and cleaner. 

Screenshot 2021-02-24 at 19.49.30.png

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2 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

"Please note that this model does not have the removable screw feature and is not recommended for any chocolate that has additional inclusions, oils, or flavors added to it." 

 

Although I don't currently add inclusions directly to my chocolate, I do make a couple of Christmas items with added oil flavors (orange & peppermint).  The removable screw just looks so much easier to clean. 

 

It's hard.  I quit my day job almost 7 years ago and have been scraping by, paying myself close to nothing while slowly building business and always trying to improve efficiency in methods and packaging.  I started out with beautiful, expensive custom packaging that was a pain in the butt at any kind of volume and a 6 kg melter.  Graduated to the 24 kg melter and EZ temper a few years ago but still thinking about every stir, every ladle, every stopping to temp the chocolate.  10 seconds times a thousand adds up.  My kitchen gets really hot in the summer & I was looking at air conditioning so I could do more production year-round but now I'm thinking a Selmi would be a better investment - make more product, make more money, do the AC in 2022. 

 

I agree with Kerry that I'll probably want the enrober - yeah, of course I do, who doesn't? 😂

If you get that Selmi you'll be needing the AC more than ever!

 

 

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@EsaK good to know and consider. I wouldn’t be hosing water through the machine, but would want to clean it if I had something strongly flavored or contaminated with allergens. 
 

I don’t want to just get the cheapest one possible, but if the screw isn’t really necessary  I have other things to spend money on. 

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7 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

@EsaK good to know and consider. I wouldn’t be hosing water through the machine, but would want to clean it if I had something strongly flavored or contaminated with allergens. 
 

I don’t want to just get the cheapest one possible, but if the screw isn’t really necessary  I have other things to spend money on. 

 

Please let us know if you figure out that the screw feature makes cleaning much easier, even if you don't hose water through the machine! You can clean the One/Legend machines too by taking things apart, but I was told it is simply more complicated. Sounded like something you wouldn't want to do more than once a year, if even that. Though I wouldn't want to go through that hosing procedure in the clip, even if I had the facilities... 

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3 hours ago, EsaK said:

This is something I hope am corrected if I've gotten this wrong. As far as I've understood, the removable screw really only helps the cleaning if you have a floor drain and a space that can handle getting wet so that you can hose the machine down as here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0lrePB0KOg. If you don't have that space, my understanding is that you don't really gain much if anything from that feature. The screw pump is rather large too, unlikely to fit into most home sinks?

 

Ok, after watching that I have to admit that I'd want to clean the thing as rarely as possible 😆  I do have a commercial kitchen and my 3 compartment sink is big enough to fit a full sheet pan, and I could hook a hose up to my utility sink if needed. 

 

Melter maintenance is certainly simpler!

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@EsaK, I just checked the price of the Control Freak induction burner.  It's about three times the cost of the Mol d'Art 6kg melter.  Yes, it would be great to have around for other purposes, but....

 

Thanks for the dimensions of the various pieces of equipment.  That helps a great deal.

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15 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

@EsaK, I just checked the price of the Control Freak induction burner.  It's about three times the cost of the Mol d'Art 6kg melter.  Yes, it would be great to have around for other purposes, but....

 

Thanks for the dimensions of the various pieces of equipment.  That helps a great deal.

 

Yup. I paid about twice as much for mine, though I couldn't have survived thus far without it as it's been used in conjunction with the melter to handle the chocolates. In addition to being very nice to have for all things sugar. I tried to ask about the Rocook and whether it works essentially the same as the CF, but I never got a reply from them. It would be much much cheaper than the CF. 

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59 minutes ago, EsaK said:

 

Yup. I paid about twice as much for mine, though I couldn't have survived thus far without it as it's been used in conjunction with the melter to handle the chocolates. In addition to being very nice to have for all things sugar. I tried to ask about the Rocook and whether it works essentially the same as the CF, but I never got a reply from them. It would be much much cheaper than the CF. 

 

I've never been particularly tempted by the CF, mostly because I think it's outrageously priced. The rocook is some kind of intriguing, though, I admit. I assume it's 220V only.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Are there people here that have Chocolate World automatic tempering machines and possibly enrobers and panning machines? I'm trying to figure out whether I'll go Selmi Legend + One + enrober, or CW Delight 24 x 2 + enrober (or possibly CW 12 which I've heard is coming to market). Or some other setup, but need to decide between these two players. I'd be thrilled to hear from owners or users of the CW machines; what you think of the quality, using them, any issues you may have had, if you're able to compare to Selmis, and any other thoughts. 

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I just sent in my deposit for a Selmi Color. 

 

The combination of sale pricing and how much my arm hurts after Easter production sealed the deal.  My arm feels better already! 

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8 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

I just sent in my deposit for a Selmi Color. 

 

The combination of sale pricing and how much my arm hurts after Easter production sealed the deal.  My arm feels better already! 

Did you go with the Color due to the cleaning and your kitchen having the capacity and drains to hose the machine inside out? 

 

Unrelated, but I thought having one machine for white and milk, and changing them for example once a week, wouldn't be an issue. Then a CW rep told me that it is a pain in the ass to go from milk to white, and takes several kilos of chocolate to flush the machine so that white is totally white. I guess one is going to be worked with the melter still.

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@EsaK I got the EX with the removable screw because if I ever have to clean the thing out I want cleaning to be a easy as possible and waste the least chocolate.  I'll keep dark chocolate in it and not switch chocolates too often, I use mostly 60% dark and can still use my mol d'art melters for milk and white. 

 

They offer a 'water cleaning attachment', which is the hose shown in the cleaning video.  It would be easier to never clean it out and change my labeling to say 'may contain traces of' all the various allergens ;)  But I guess I should get the hose and have that option.  Otherwise, you could remove the screw and wash it, and try to wipe out or wipe off the other parts but you won't get it completely clean. 

Edited by pastrygirl (log)
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2 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

I just sent in my deposit for a Selmi Color. 

 

The combination of sale pricing and how much my arm hurts after Easter production sealed the deal.  My arm feels better already! 

 

Enjoy it - I suppose it is said so in English -

 

Is it practical to use one Selmi enrober with two tempering machines ... for example ... using it to enrobe with milk chocolate in the mornings and then later using it with the temperer filled with the dark chocolate in the afternoons?

Edited by Altay.Oro (log)
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Well you’d be better off using dark first then milk and washing it at the end of the day, but I think you can move one enrober between multiple machines. You want to work from fewest allergens to most. 

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4 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

I just sent in my deposit for a Selmi Color. 

 

The combination of sale pricing and how much my arm hurts after Easter production sealed the deal.  My arm feels better already! 

 

I've been getting their emails about the March sale and each time, I thought of you and wanted to send them to you but figured I shouldn't tempt you!  Glad you are getting it!

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You can certainly share an enrober between tempering machines - but the enrober will never be completely clean so there will be some contamination of milk into your dark - so label accordingly. 

Edited by Kerry Beal (log)
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