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eugenep

Have you noticed a change in King Arthur all purpose flour?

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I used the King Arthur AP to make pizza and galette recently. The dough felt like cream cheese smear or something. It was like there was no structure/gluten/protein holding it together to make it stretchy and tough. 

 

It was weird. My pizza turned out good or decent enough when baked but my galette felt like crumbles you put onto of a peach crumble. 

 

I'm not sure if its the seasonal change to summer (humidity and temp) or if something has changed in their AP flour. 

 

I did goggle it and found out the company was in a rush to get more flour to the market since their demand exploded by 3000% or something. 

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1 hour ago, eugenep said:

I used the King Arthur AP to make pizza and galette recently. The dough felt like cream cheese smear or something. It was like there was no structure/gluten/protein holding it together to make it stretchy and tough. 

 

It was weird. My pizza turned out good or decent enough when baked but my galette felt like crumbles you put onto of a peach crumble. 

 

I'm not sure if its the seasonal change to summer (humidity and temp) or if something has changed in their AP flour. 

 

I did goggle it and found out the company was in a rush to get more flour to the market since their demand exploded by 3000% or something. 

It sounds like you're onto something there.  Maybe In their rush they had to use a new what source which was not quite up to snuff.

I use the local Wheat Montana Flour for everything so I've not been affected in that way.

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I have not had any changes in mine, but I buy in the 50# bags, which I think are probably less likely to be affected by the current supply issues. I also use the organic stuff, which again is probably less affected.


Chris Hennes
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chennes@egullet.org

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1 hour ago, Chris Hennes said:

I have not had any changes in mine, but I buy in the 50# bags, which I think are probably less likely to be affected by the current supply issues. I also use the organic stuff, which again is probably less affected.

Chris, how do you store your flour?

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9 hours ago, eugenep said:

I'm not sure if its the seasonal change to summer (humidity and temp) or if something has changed in their AP flour. 

 

I did goggle it and found out the company was in a rush to get more flour to the market since their demand exploded by 3000% or something. 


If wheat has been harvested at the wrong time, ie, it's been allow to sprout, it's enzyme activity will be too high, making it unsuitable for milling into flour- and potentially producing the results you're witnessing.  But ruined wheat is super easy to detect and I don't think KA, even in the middle of a pandemic, would stoop to that. 

 

Unless a miller is using an aging agent such as bromate, flour needs aging for proper gluten development.  My best guess is that your flour is just very very young.  If you can, I would just give it time.  If youth is the issue, a month should help.

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8 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

I use LifeLatch buckets. Each one holds about 25lbs.

Do you put the buckets in the fridge or freezer? How quickly do you go thru 50 pounds of flour? Trying to figure out if this is something I should do or if my flour would go rancid before I used all of it.

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What I want to know is how he gets them to sell 50 pound bags.  I enquired once a few years ago and the commercial rep said maybe I could buy a bag if I came up to Vermont.

 

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6 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

What I want to know is how he gets them to sell 50 pound bags.  I enquired once a few years ago and the commercial rep said maybe I could buy a bag if I came up to Vermont.

 

 

if you have room, this place'll even sell you a pallet (that's 50 50-lb. bags). But it doesn't appear to reduce the price of their 50-lb. bags.

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

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7 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

What I want to know is how he gets them to sell 50 pound bags.  I enquired once a few years ago and the commercial rep said maybe I could buy a bag if I came up to Vermont.

 

There are lots of online stores that will sell you single 50# bags of flour, I usually just Google around for the best price. Shipping brings the cost up, obviously, but it's still cheaper per pound than buying at a local store (plus, I don't have to set foot in a store!).


Chris Hennes
Director of Operations
chennes@egullet.org

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9 hours ago, curls said:

Do you put the buckets in the fridge or freezer? How quickly do you go thru 50 pounds of flour? Trying to figure out if this is something I should do or if my flour would go rancid before I used all of it.

I do not - you'd need a really big freezer, and the round buckets would waste a ton of space. It takes me about three months to go through 50# of white flour. The rye takes me more like a year. Those buckets are airtight, though, I've been happy with them.


Chris Hennes
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chennes@egullet.org

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1 hour ago, weinoo said:

Yeah, I buy lots of flour from them, they have an excellent selection of Rye from Ardent Mills, and will repackage almost anything into 5# bags. So I didn't have to buy 50# of dark rye!

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Chris Hennes
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chennes@egullet.org

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I'm sure the pricing is much better to buy in bulk but - as a non-professional home cook - the turnover of that much flour would take like 5 years or something in addition to the risk of rot from summer heat and humidity. 

 

But makes sense for professionals. I might just switch to Gold Medal or something to see if the texture is better. 

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12 hours ago, curls said:

Do you put the buckets in the fridge or freezer? How quickly do you go thru 50 pounds of flour? Trying to figure out if this is something I should do or if my flour would go rancid before I used all of it.

White flours keep better than whole wheat.  I've had bread flour last a year, not rancid, stored in a bucket in my (coolish) basement. 

 

I use regular 5 gallon buckets, with a 'gamma seal lid".  Much cheaper than the thing Chris linked to (which may just be an amazon crazy price?) 50 lbs of flour is about 8 gallons, so you could use a 7.5 gallon bucket, and get most of it in the bucket.  Of course, your bucket would weigh 50 pounds, which may be a problem.

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13 hours ago, curls said:

Do you put the buckets in the fridge or freezer? How quickly do you go thru 50 pounds of flour? Trying to figure out if this is something I should do or if my flour would go rancid before I used all of it.

 

I regular push flour stored in buckets to a year and a half.  As long as the bucket has an airtight seal and you store it in a cool place (like a basement), it will last a long time.  Obviously, this is white flour.  Whole wheat has a crazy short shelf life.

Some great bucket options have been mentioned, and you're probably already aware of this avenue, but, I'm a huge fan of free. Most supermarket bakery departments have large covered plastic buckets that they're constantly throwing out. If you ask, they'll normally give you these buckets for nothing. You can also try other departments, like the deli, although things like pickles might leave a smell. Bakery ingredients (usually glazes and icings) clean off easily with no residual odors. Make sure you get a bucket with a very tight fitting lid, with a seal that is intact (sometimes the seals get cut when they open them)..

 

With some jiggling, I can fit one 50 lb. bag of flour into two 4.25 gallon buckets.

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2 hours ago, eugenep said:

I'm sure the pricing is much better to buy in bulk but - as a non-professional home cook - the turnover of that much flour would take like 5 years or something in addition to the risk of rot from summer heat and humidity. 

 

But makes sense for professionals. I might just switch to Gold Medal or something to see if the texture is better. 

 

Do you know anyone else who bakes?  Maybe you could split a bag. 

 

One thing you might consider regarding wholesale flour is quality.  I can't speak for galettes, but the quality of wholesale pizza flour absolutely destroys any retail offerings. And this isn't just flour.  Across the board, pizzerias get access to the best flour, the best cheese and the best tomatoes- all at considerable savings over retail.

Do you live anywhere near a Restaurant Depot? Presently, they're open to the public.

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1 hour ago, scott123 said:

 

I regular push flour stored in buckets to a year and a half.  As long as the bucket has an airtight seal and you store it in a cool place (like a basement), it will last a long time.  Obviously, this is white flour.  Whole wheat has a crazy short shelf life.

Some great bucket options have been mentioned, and you're probably already aware of this avenue, but, I'm a huge fan of free. Most supermarket bakery departments have large covered plastic buckets that they're constantly throwing out. If you ask, they'll normally give you these buckets for nothing. You can also try other departments, like the deli, although things like pickles might leave a smell. Bakery ingredients (usually glazes and icings) clean off easily with no residual odors. Make sure you get a bucket with a very tight fitting lid, with a seal that is intact (sometimes the seals get cut when they open them)..

 

With some jiggling, I can fit one 50 lb. bag of flour into two 4.25 gallon buckets.

 

I've never gotten a bucket from a food service operation with a lid worth a damn.  No problem with the buckets, but the lids aren't good.  They're not designed to be reused, so not really a surprise.  Spending 6 bucks on a good screw on lid that will last years and years is worth it in my book. 

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18 hours ago, scott123 said:

 

 

 

One thing you might consider regarding wholesale flour is quality.  I can't speak for galettes, but the quality of wholesale pizza flour absolutely destroys any retail offerings. And this isn't just flour.  Across the board, pizzerias get access to the best flour, the best cheese and the best tomatoes- all at considerable savings over retail.

Do you live anywhere near a Restaurant Depot? Presently, they're open to the public.

you mean like Caputo 00 flour (special for pizza)? Hmmm..I see it at Whole Foods for 2x the price of normal flour. I haven't tried it yet.

 

But I'm using a normal home oven and the recipe I'm using is designed for non-professional ovens. It's that book by Ken Forkish actually - with the use of all purpose flour and a small home oven. 

 

I live in NJ and there is a Restaurant Depot near me. But I think you need a special card - like Costco? I did go there once with brother-in-law to pick stuff for a family bbq. 

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I think more what @scott123 is referring to is freshness and quality of the ingredients. Of course some of that has changed due to the pivoting during the pandemic.
Stuff at grocery stores is much more likely to have been packaged and warehoused for quite some time before making it to a retail establishment. I mean, one just has to cook @rancho_gordo's beans compared to Goya's to see the difference.

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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3 hours ago, eugenep said:

you mean like Caputo 00 flour (special for pizza)? Hmmm..I see it at Whole Foods for 2x the price of normal flour. I haven't tried it yet.

 

But I'm using a normal home oven and the recipe I'm using is designed for non-professional ovens. It's that book by Ken Forkish actually - with the use of all purpose flour and a small home oven. 

 

I live in NJ and there is a Restaurant Depot near me. But I think you need a special card - like Costco? I did go there once with brother-in-law to pick stuff for a family bbq. 

I'm a big fan of Caputo 00 for pizza. We don't have a professional oven, and can barely get ours up to 500 degrees. The two best improvements we have made are that flour and the use of a thick steel. 

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