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Some help with Salted Caramels (caramels au beurre salé)


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I have been working on some soft caramels inspired by Kriss Harvey (who was inspired by Jacques Genin and Henri Leroux).  He talks on his instagram about caramelizing all the ingredients other than butter (sugar, glucose, cream, salt and vanilla) together to get the right flavor and chewiness. I haven't been able to find a single recipe that does it this way.  Every caramel recipe I can find calls for caramelizing the sugar first then deglazing with warm cream.  So I've been experimenting on my own (I've gone through a LOT of sugar, butter and cream) with less than satisfactory results. I've been putting all the ingredients in a saucepan, other than the butter and cooking to the desired temperature while stirring, then removing from the heat and adding the butter than pouring into a frame.  I've been sticking with basic salted caramels.  I haven't wanted to try to do fruit caramels until I get the basics down.  I did read through an earlier thread on Genin caramels with a recipe by member Schneich - it looks like he caramelizes the sugar and then adds the cream.  Kriss Harvey also does not appear to be using sorbitolm, lethicin or sodium bicarbonate.

 

Has anyone made caramels the Kriss Harvey way?  I'd love to get some guidance or tips.  

 

 

Edited by Bentley (log)
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2 hours ago, RWood said:

I haven't tried this recipe myself yet, but I think it's a similar method.  

Salted Butter Caramels

I think David is a forum member here if I'm not mistaken.  His recipe seems to be the traditional method of caramelizing the sugar then deglazing with the cream.  If I am understanding correctly from his instagram feed, Kriss Harvey cooks the sugar, cream, glucose and vanilla in a pan all at once to a temperature of 118-125 (depending on the variety he is making) then he adds the butter.  

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Kriss does a Maillard caramel (no sorbitol, yes lecithin). Instead of caramelizing the sugar and deglazing with cream, the sugars and cream cook together for a long time and the milk proteins cook and go through a Maillard reaction. With this method, the sugar never actually gets hot enough to caramelize. So it has more of a cooked dairy flavor than a burnt sugar flavor. I think @Chocolothas said she makes her cut/chewy caramels this way. Am I remembering that correctly?

Edited by Pastrypastmidnight (log)
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1 hour ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

Kriss does a Maillard caramel (no sorbitol, yes lecithin). Instead of caramelizing the sugar and deglazing with cream, the sugars and cream cook together for a long time and the milk proteins cook and go through a Maillard reaction. With this method, the sugar never actually gets hot enough to caramelize. So it has more of a cooked dairy flavor than a burnt sugar flavor. I think @Chocolothas said she makes her cut/chewy caramels this way. Am I remembering that correctly?

 

 

Yes, that is how I make my cut caramels. For pipeable caramel, I use the other method.

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Ruth Kendrick

Chocolot
Artisan Chocolates and Toffees
www.chocolot.com

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Thanks.  Kriss has never mentioned lecithin that I'm aware of (at least on his instagram), but I know you took his class, so I'll take it as truth.  Are the amounts of cream and butter similar for both methods? Or does the Maillard method typically use more?

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35 minutes ago, Bentley said:

Thanks.  Kriss has never mentioned lecithin that I'm aware of (at least on his instagram), but I know you took his class, so I'll take it as truth.  Are the amounts of cream and butter similar for both methods? Or does the Maillard method typically use more?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJEouH1gitv/?igshid=1qrqqurydzrh4
 

Kriss mentions lecithin in the above Instagram post. 
 

All of Greweling’s chewy caramel recipes are Maillard caramels. As for percentages, I’m not sure. I use cream in my caramels, but Greweling, for some reason, has recipes with evaporated, fresh, and sweetened condensed milk. But no just fresh cream. But they seem similar-ish. 

Edited by Pastrypastmidnight (log)
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3 minutes ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJEouH1gitv/?igshid=1qrqqurydzrh4
 

Kriss mentions lecithin in the above Instagram post. 
 

All of Greweling’s chewy caramel recipes are Maillard caramels. As for percentages, I’m not sure. I use cream in my caramels, but Greweling, for some reason, has recipes with evaporated, fresh, and sweetened condensed milk. But no just fresh cream. But they seem similar-ish. 

 

Thanks for that.  I stand corrected.  I tried to find every post he did on caramels, but I missed that one..probably because there's no caramel in the picture. 

 

And I always forget about Grewling's book.  It's the only one in my collection that is on my iPad and isn't a physical book.

 

Off to experiment...

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7 minutes ago, Bentley said:

Thanks for that.  I stand corrected.  I tried to find every post he did on caramels, but I missed that one..probably because there's no caramel in the picture. 

 

And I always forget about Grewling's book.  It's the only one in my collection that is on my iPad and isn't a physical book.

 

Off to experiment...

Good luck!

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Wow...what a difference between Greweling's Recipes and @schneich's recipes on page 2 of this thread: 

 

 

I'm going to make them both tomorrow, but my guess is that Grewelings will be more like an American style firmer cut caramel, and Schneichs' will be more like a Genin-style chewy soft caramel.  40g of butter to 680g of sugar  (in Grewelings caramels using fresh dairy) vs 700g of butter to 1000g of sugar in Schneich's.  Talk about different approaches!  Greweling isn't using lecithin, so if Kriss Harvey is using it, I am guessing he tends towards the "more butter" side of the spectrum.  

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How did the experimentation go? I just made a couple of small batches (250 gr sugar), and I am very please with how different the flavor and texture profile are.

Vanessa

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So I made one batch, where I dry cooked the sugar the added cream, glucose etc. Cooked to 112C, added butter and cooked to 121C. The caramel was extremely dark, my bad, and soft, little too soft, but what a flavor!

The second batch I cooked all of the ingredients together except for the butter, that I added around 112-114C, then cooked to 121C, but I was more like 125C, so the caramel was not as dark, but too firm, lol me!!

Then I decided to out both of the caramel back into the pot (at this point I was running out of counter space, as I was also making croissants 😋).

Added little water, melt it all and cook back to 121, this time paying better attention of getting the pot off the stove right away. I am still not used to this stupid electric top we have in this house, I don't love it.

In any case the caramel is of perfect consistency and the flavor wow! I have cut and wrap them in wax paper and keep their shape wonderfully. I should mention that I didn't use any lecithin, as I don't have any. So much fun.

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Vanessa

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On 1/30/2020 at 6:36 PM, Desiderio said:

How did the experimentation go? I just made a couple of small batches (250 gr sugar), and I am very please with how different the flavor and texture profile are.

Which recipe did you use for your experiment? 

 

I have been experimenting with Greweling's recipes only so far as I am waiting to get some lecithin. I haven't loved the results so far.  I think I may be cooking too fast as the color of the caramels is very light and there is not a great depth of flavor.  I think I need to lower the heat and cook longer to develop more Maillard reaction in the ingredients.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bentley said:

Which recipe did you use for your experiment? 

 

I have been experimenting with Greweling's recipes only so far as I am waiting to get some lecithin. I haven't loved the results so far.  I think I may be cooking too fast as the color of the caramels is very light and there is not a great depth of flavor.  I think I need to lower the heat and cook longer to develop more Maillard reaction in the ingredients.  

 

On this page you will find some posts from Chocolot and RobertM about this very issue. Somewhere on that thread I also asked about adding baking soda, which darkens the caramel (I never did find out whether it darkens the taste or just the color).

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I used the November 10th adaptation. I find that the lecithin isn't necessary, at least in my opinion. Also I found out that sorbitol is not my friend!!! I think I will skip it from now on, really hard on the tummy 😣.

About Greweling caramels, I find that I like the non caramel notes of that type, when making fruit caramels, which I have used for my vegan ones. The caramel note, where the once I was trying to avoid when making those specific caramels, if that make sense. But based on the reading we did about Genin caramels, I think slower longer cooking is the ticket. I personally like higher faster (at lest with the recipe I have been using for the past several years), because I have noticed that long and slow, inverts too much sugar and creates a soft, dark caramel that I don't particularly enjoy.

Vanessa

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  • 2 weeks later...
55 minutes ago, Bentley said:

Just saw that Susanna Yoon (Stick With Me Sweets) published a salted caramel recipe at Chowhound.com (https://www.chowhound.com/food-news/255382/how-to-make-caramel-recipe-stick-with-me-sweets😞

 

 

I wonder if the dark brown sugar is a solution for the problem of getting this type of caramel dark enough.

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