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Leaf gelatine should give you a very clear jelly.

I honestly don't think that a phone has enough vibration to make a jelly wobble back and forward, I feel like the frequency is too high, I have no proof other than a gut feeling!

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30 minutes ago, keychris said:

Leaf gelatine should give you a very clear jelly.

I honestly don't think that a phone has enough vibration to make a jelly wobble back and forward, I feel like the frequency is too high, I have no proof other than a gut feeling!

 

I think you're right - maybe if it was an extremely hard-set jelly in a thin layer. I imagine something along the lines of a slow, steady pulse would work.

 

ETA: Steve Mould looks at the resonating frequency of a water balloon here, and it's really slow. I imagine jelly would be at least fairly similar.

 

 

Edited by jmacnaughtan (log)
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1. Resonant vibration is very powerful. Many major structural failures, bridges, towers, etc. had been due to resonant movement. 

 

2. Do not use vacuum on a cellphone. Vacuum can destroy the microphone's and speaker's very thin film  diagram. Possible hazard with lithium battery's thin film electrodes 

 

dcarch

 

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3 hours ago, jmacnaughtan said:

- Cling film is, apparently, laughably poor at keeping liquid jelly out (at least if you want it to look discreet). I think I have destroyed my test phone.

 

My apologies for leading you to damaging the Nokia. Did you use a professional cling wrap that really clings, or a supermarket one with average cling? I've sealed and poached various stuff in professional cling wrap without troubles.

The suggestion to use a condom is still valid, a double knot on the bottom should be enough. If a knot is enough to keep water inside a balloon, then it should be enough to keep jelly outside of a condom.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, jmacnaughtan said:

I'm going to upgrade to a smartphone in the jelly

 

Try asking around, one of your friends will have an old phone to give you for free.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, jmacnaughtan said:

- Would leaf gelatin give a clearer result? I always thought it was basically identical, but it might be purer.

 

Leaf gelatin gives clear results, it must be clear to be sellable (nobody would buy a cloudy gelatin sheet). Don't buy the supermarket stuff, usually it's gold gelatin.

About powder gelatin, it depends on the producer. Last week I made a sake jelly with powder gelatin that came out completely clear and wobbles a lot.

 

 

Regarding resonant frequencies, I would keep really far from that with a weak jelly. Resonant vibrations would lead to cracks in few time, most probably the jelly would break and collapse with the first call.

 

For your next step I would try this. Make a jelly block that satisfies you (clear and wobbly enough), without enclosing any phone in it. Then enclose the phone with whatever method you decide, lay it on the set jelly (no risks for the phone), then try calling the phone and see what happens. Worst case scenario the jelly stays firm and you wasted some time, but I would bet it's enough to make the jelly wobble noticeably.

 

 

 

Teo

 

Teo

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7 hours ago, teonzo said:

 

My apologies for leading you to damaging the Nokia. Did you use a professional cling wrap that really clings, or a supermarket one with average cling? I've sealed and poached various stuff in professional cling wrap without troubles.

The suggestion to use a condom is still valid, a double knot on the bottom should be enough. If a knot is enough to keep water inside a balloon, then it should be enough to keep jelly outside of a condom.

 

 

No problem, it was going to the dump anyway.  The film was apparently a decent professional one - I've poached in it before, but always very well wrapped. If I'd done the same here, you wouldn't have been able to see the phone.

I might try a condom - I hadn't picked up on that before.

7 hours ago, teonzo said:

Leaf gelatin gives clear results, it must be clear to be sellable (nobody would buy a cloudy gelatin sheet). Don't buy the supermarket stuff, usually it's gold gelatin.

About powder gelatin, it depends on the producer. Last week I made a sake jelly with powder gelatin that came out completely clear and wobbles a lot.

 

 

Regarding resonant frequencies, I would keep really far from that with a weak jelly. Resonant vibrations would lead to cracks in few time, most probably the jelly would break and collapse with the first call.

 

For your next step I would try this. Make a jelly block that satisfies you (clear and wobbly enough), without enclosing any phone in it. Then enclose the phone with whatever method you decide, lay it on the set jelly (no risks for the phone), then try calling the phone and see what happens. Worst case scenario the jelly stays firm and you wasted some time, but I would bet it's enough to make the jelly wobble noticeably.

 

 

I've done a second run, and it seems to be clearer (maybe I had starch residue in the bowl for the other one). It is an unappealing yellowish colour though - is leaf gelatin colourless as well as transparent?

 

For this run, I've embedded a slate coaster which seems to be the approximate shape and mass of a smartphone, but square.  I'll unmould it tomorrow and try buzzing a phone on top of it.  Thanks for the idea!

 

8 hours ago, dcarch said:

1. Resonant vibration is very powerful. Many major structural failures, bridges, towers, etc. had been due to resonant movement. 

 

2. Do not use vacuum on a cellphone. Vacuum can destroy the microphone's and speaker's very thin film  diagram. Possible hazard with lithium battery's thin film electrodes 

 

 

Even at the resonant vibration, I'm not entirely sure a small vibro-motor has enough power to collapse a jelly, but I'll take your word for it anyway. In any case, I'm very unlikely to achieve it without a lot of legwork.

 

And I can't pull anything like a real vacuum with my set up, so it shouldn't be an issue.

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Why not get a a spray can of PlastiDip and spray a layer of rubberizer all over the cling-film wrapped phone to seal it up?  Then drop it in the gelatin. Or does it have to visibly be a phone trapped in jello for the effect you want?

Christopher D. Holst aka "cdh"

Learn to brew beer with my eGCI course

Chris Holst, Attorney-at-Lunch

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10 hours ago, cdh said:

Why not get a a spray can of PlastiDip and spray a layer of rubberizer all over the cling-film wrapped phone to seal it up?  Then drop it in the gelatin. Or does it have to visibly be a phone trapped in jello for the effect you want?

 

I've never heard of PlastiDip - is it fairly transparent? The idea is for it to look like it's just suspended in jelly, at least with the screen lighting up and being more or less visible. It's why I'm having trouble with cling film - to get enough protection, you're sacrificing transparency.

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So, the second attempt was a little better than the first - the set jelly actually unmoulded and had a good wobble.  It seemed to hold the coaster OK too.

 

IMG_20191023_124908475.thumb.jpg.155eedb54d295c84b5487c92e3521bca.jpg

 

Unfortunately:

  1. It was still cloudy, and an unappealing yellow colour (you can't see it too well in the photo, but think weak urine). I think my kilo-tub of gelatin is garbage, at least for anything clear.
  2. After a minor amount of poking and turning the plate, the jelly swiftly began to break apart.
  3. After trying out @teonzo's suggestion with the phone on top of the jelly, the results were disappointing. On full vibrate, the jelly didn't move at all.

So:

 

  1. I need new, leaf gelatin. I could pick up some pro stuff, but it's the same producer as this garbage, so I may try supermarket (even though it's probably going to be gold)
  2. I'll probably need to up the percentage from 2.7% to 3-3.5%. The jelly's going to be spending time at room temperature, and there will be plenty of poking and prodding.
  3. I think I'm going to have to scrap the idea of wobbling the jelly with the vibrate setting - it's doing nothing at all. If I can get clarity and some wobble, that'll have to do.

 

Also, I'll probably scale it up - this was a 1L basin, and I think my next size up is 3L. This is clearly going to screw with the structural stability, but would 3.5% gelatin be enough/overkill? This one had a fairly firm set - probably the most I'd want if I was going to eat it. Something like the jelly you get at kids' birthday parties. But I think, especially with a large basin, that it'll just collapse too quickly.

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What is clearer? Would an agar jelly work better? Might not jiggle as well though.

 

Might want to have a look through Khymos.org and see what gums set clear and jiggly. 

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Does it have to be a food based gel/jelly?   Because you can make a very clear "slime" product that may work.   In case you're not familiar, making slime is an obsession with a lot of tweens around here and youtube is inundated with how to videos.  Slime can be made with household products.   It may work for your art exhibit as you are planning it. 

 

Example Video

Seriously, do a search on youtube or google about making clear slime.

Edited by lemniscate (log)
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About the ruined Nokia, I would suggest to put it in a dehidrator between 40°C and 50°C. Years ago a friend of mine accidentally dropped her Nokia in the bathtub, then put it under the sun for a day, it came back as new. Those things are famous for surviving the worst abuses, so there are chances your phone will come back to life.

 

What I've been told about gelatin is this. It's produced in 2 main passages: extraction from the animal parts; purification. After the extraction gelatin is in granular form. After purification it can be made back in granular form or in sheet form. Granular gelatin can range from lots of impurities to totally clear, it's impossible to see it when it's in granular form, you need to use it to see. Sheet gelatin usually verges on the totally clear, you can see it by eye if the sheet is perfectly clear and transparent.
Beware that jelly made in that way (gelatin and water, nothing else) will develop mold in few days. If you freeze it you ruin it due to syneresis. So it's better making experiments with the lower quantities possible, considering the cost of gelatin. Here supermarkets sell a 12 g package for 1 euro, if you want to gel 3 l water then you end up spending 6 euro or more. The jelly you are making this week will go to waste before the event, unless you start adding stuff like potassium sorbate or glycerin (not much sense).

 

Keep far from agar, it gives hard, brittle and cloudy jellies. They don't wobble and break easily. As far as my experience goes there are no better hydrocolloids than gelatin for this purpose.

 

 

 

Teo

 

Teo

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Controlled adjustable motor vibrator is so cheap and so easy to make. For instance:

 

Get a small computer "muffin" fan ($1.00 to $10?). They are small and flat and rated at 5VDC or12VDC. Many sizes to choose from.

s-l1000.jpg

They are made of plastic. You can easily break off a few fan blades to make the  rotation unbalanced. When it rotates it will vibrate. With a voltage regulator/controller,

s-l1000.jpg

 

you can have the vibration adjusted to the exact jello wobble frequency.

 

dcarch 

 

 

Edited by dcarch (log)
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11 hours ago, jmacnaughtan said:

 

I've never heard of PlastiDip - is it fairly transparent? The idea is for it to look like it's just suspended in jelly, at least with the screen lighting up and being more or less visible. It's why I'm having trouble with cling film - to get enough protection, you're sacrificing transparency.

I've never played with the clear variety... but it does exist.  Here's their website... https://plastidip.com/our-products/plasti-dip/  I figure that a clear rubber seal around the cling film will keep the jelly out for you...  Or maybe just forget the cling film and spray a clear layer or two right on the phone... It should waterproof it... and you should be able to peel it off when you're done. 

Edited by cdh (log)

Christopher D. Holst aka "cdh"

Learn to brew beer with my eGCI course

Chris Holst, Attorney-at-Lunch

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