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Ooni pizza oven


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46 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

Any recommendations vs what I might purchase elsewhere? 


As big of a fan as I am of the Koda 16, I'm not impressed at all with Ooni's accessories.

First, anodized or not, you don't want an aluminum turning peel.  Aluminum is just way too soft and won't stand up to the wear and tear.  Also, 7" is a little small for turning.  In Naples, turning peels are traditionally 9" or 10". 

This is still a little small

https://us.gozney.com/products/roccbox-turning-peel

but it should be stainless. 7"  should be comfortable for turning a 13" Neapolitan pie- and might be okay for a 16" NY, but I've never tried turning a 16" pizza with a 7" peel, so I can't say for certain.  7" should be fine for retrieving a 16", since you can slide the pizza up the handle a bit.

This piques my curiosity:

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Perforated-Turning-Detachable-Handle/dp/B0912JFT7Q/

Very reasonable price, 9", stainless, and has a longer handle that can be unscrewed into a shorter one.  Loving all four of these aspects.  But the reviews. Yeesh.  Dialing in the right gauge metal on a peel can be difficult.  You want it thin enough to cleanly get under the pizza, but, not so thin that the material bends when you go to pick the pizza up.  The review seems to point towards a gauge of metal that might be too thick.  If this is the case, you should be able to sand down the edge to a finer point, but, without having the peel in hand, I can't make any promises.  

https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Stainless-Perforated-Paddle-Handle/dp/B07YXTDXJ3

This is a classic Italian peel at a very reasonable price (these used to typically be $100+) but that 47" handle is rough.  Depending on how the plastic handle is attached, you might be able to take it apart and cut it down to a more reasonable length.  While I like the $34 price tag of the previous peel, this peel feels like a better known quantity.  This is probably what I'd get if I were getting a turning peel.

As far as what to spend your $50 credit on, that's tough.  Bamboo wood peels are worthless.  An infrared thermometer is incredibly useful, but, 40 bucks for a $20 thermometer? They've got a lot of nerve.  

A good wood peel is even more important than a turning peel, btw.  No bamboo (bamboo doesn't absorb moisture as well as other woods).  It also needs to have a thin face/blade- NOT a thick blade with a taper just at the very end.  With a thick blade and a short, stubby taper, the toppings have a tendency to waterfall as you launch the pie. Lastly, you've got a 16" oven, you're going to eventually make 16" pies, which will require a 16" wood peel.

 

Btw, perforated metal peels for launching are overrated.  Wood absorbs moisture and gives you a longer window before the dough starts to stick.  I'm still looking for the peel of my dreams, but, for an Ooni 16, I'd probably go with this:

https://www.amazon.com/American-Metalcraft-4216-Standard-42-Inches/dp/B00G67R72K

Good price, good dimensions, good wood.  It's a little bit clunky, but it's way better than what's available right now. You'll probably need to cut the handle down a bit, though.

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16 hours ago, JeanneCake said:

surprise birthday present for my son who is intent on perfecting his calzones


The best and worst calzone I've ever had came out of a wood fired oven (at Lucali, in Brooklyn).  Best, because the hand dipped ricotta rocked my world, but worst because the intense heat of the oven produced sections of raw dough.  But the parts where the dough was cooked... wow.

The reason I bring this up because, as big of a fan as I am of the Koda 16... I'm not sure I'd buy it for the specific goal of making calzones.  Ooni's don't really have low settings- it's either incendiary, or slightly less than incendiary with the knob at it's lowest.  This means that, for lower temp baking, you have to cycle them off and on.  It's very possible that a calzone might benefit from hotter than your average home oven temps, but, I think the Koda is pushing it.

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2 hours ago, blue_dolphin said:

I ordered the Koda 16 on Jun 21.  Kind of funny because that seems to be a dividing line in their shipping estimates which keep slipping away. It's gone from early July to early Aug to a more vague August. The last update assured me that it had arrived in the US but they have no idea when port congestion and shipping will allow it to reach their warehouse or, more importantly, me.  Along with that bit of info, they did provide a $50 voucher to use for their accessories. Any recommendations vs what I might purchase elsewhere? 

I need a small turning peel, both for pizza and pita. 

I have a wooden peel that should suffice for delivering into the oven but I'd like a perforated metal peel, too, and theirs looks nice. 

Any experience with these items or others from their shop?

 

No Ooni here but my peel I love is this:  (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

 

Amazon shows it as unavailable but last I looked it was for sale at the Exo site.  (Amazon does stock the shorter handled Exo pizza peel.)  I've had my Exo's (three) before Modernist Bread came out, but MB includes a picture.  Amazon reviewers say they work well with an Ooni.

 

 

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Cooking is cool.  And kitchen gear is even cooler.  -- Chad Ward

 

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for peels, Gi Metal or bust.

they have a wide range of products, and i bet you can get short handles for these portable ovens. or at least shorter handles. if you want, it's also easy to trim the handles with a saw.

 

https://gimetalusa.com/gimetal-our-products

 

i have A-32RF/120 launching peel and I-20 turning peel, but my oven is much bigger.

Edited by jaw (log)
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9 hours ago, scott123 said:


The best and worst calzone I've ever had came out of a wood fired oven (at Lucali, in Brooklyn).  Best, because the hand dipped ricotta rocked my world, but worst because the intense heat of the oven produced sections of raw dough.  But the parts where the dough was cooked... wow.

The reason I bring this up because, as big of a fan as I am of the Koda 16... I'm not sure I'd buy it for the specific goal of making calzones.  Ooni's don't really have low settings- it's either incendiary, or slightly less than incendiary with the knob at it's lowest.  This means that, for lower temp baking, you have to cycle them off and on.  It's very possible that a calzone might benefit from hotter than your average home oven temps, but, I think the Koda is pushing it.

 

The pandemic awakened a desire to cook - in my son.  He refused to do take out during lockdown and he was really missing calzone and pizza, etc.  So he's learning and experimenting and he's improving by leaps and bounds every time he makes one.  He's intent on calzone at the moment, but I'm selfishly buying the Koda so when he moves on to pizza ;)  I can have wonderful pizza like the rest of you!! 

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On 7/25/2021 at 2:26 AM, Jon Savage said:

Damn you all (egullet). You done went and made me buy one of these (I got a Fyra which I received today).

I'm pretty darned excited; did the burn in tonight & have dough retarding overnight 00 caputo 70% hydration of course....

 

Pics to follow of tomorrow's attempts of course; I doubt anyone would be at all interested in pics of an empty Fyra being burned in. 

 

My game plan for tomorrow is a semi nekkid crust (++garlic+++Evoo) or two for practice / familiarization  or so & then off to pizzaland. This should be fun. Just divvied up the dough from bulk ferment :).

 

edit- The shipping time was 6-10 weeks out according to ooni's webpage but in fact 2 days so the rest of the stuff I ordered from Amazon turning peel infra thermo etc won't be here until Friday next so tomorrow's cook will be very much be improvised; hell I altered my too big pizza peel today to make it fit the ooni - removed 1/2 " from both sides with my trusty Japanese pull saw because well setting up the table saw or my skilsaw would have been too onerous. 

It (the oven arrived Saturday last). Colour us happy.  I think we've figured it out & why yes this oven very much works as advertised

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Jon

--formerly known as 6ppc--

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I love this oven. Still working @ home means if If We have dough & other ingredients on hand then I can light it & 15-29 minutes later make my beloved & I a most excellent lunch. We are several cooks in w/o fail.

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Jon

--formerly known as 6ppc--

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  • 4 months later...

Got my Ooni Koda 16" the other day and did my first cook today. I've just been cooking NY pies in my home oven on a 12mm thick steel for quite a few years up until now to great success. I've tried Neapolitan in on the steel in the oven but for obvious reasons haven't had much success so I'm pretty excited about finally getting a Koda.

However, the first foray didn't quite hit the mark, more specifically my dough was lacking but the oven was amazing!

Recipe:

60% - 500g Water (tap cold)

100% - 835g Flour (50/50 mix of Caputo Manitoba & Caputo Classic OO)

2.7% - 22.5g Salt

0.06% - 0.5g Instant Dry Yeast (brand new pack of Caputo IDY)

- Combine flour and salt in one bowl, water and yeast in another bowl
- Combine wet & dry then mix for ~7 minutes in a stand mixer
- Bulk ferment for 2 hours at room temp
- Ball (250g per) and ferment for a further ~7 hours at room temp
- Preheat oven for 30 minutes on high
- Cook pies turning regularly

Unfortunately I got very little oven spring and even once the pizza was cooked there was definitely a layer of 'less than cooked' dough across the middle of the pizza.

I'd like to know where I went wrong, I think it was pretty clear that the dough didn't rise enough (if at all!), but also maybe I didn't mix the dough long enough? I know the yeast is good as it's been overactive for the other applications I've been using it for. I may have under measured slightly as my scale only does 0.1g increments and it felt like I could have used something with greater precision. Also 'room temp' here is slightly on the cooler side.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Straight after mixing:
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Straight after mixing:
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Balled after first ferment:

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After second ferment:
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Stretched dough:
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Photo-9.thumb.jpg.cf53665093c100b4d062a8bab916c285.jpg

 

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7 hours ago, Merkinz said:

brand new pack of Caputo IDY


Is this what you used?

https://www.amazon.com/Antimo-Caputo-Lievito-Active-Yeast/dp/B07QF4T64V

I also found this:

 

https://www.hamilton.govt.nz/our-services/water/water/Pages/Water-Quality.aspx

 

Quote

The majority of New Zealand waters are considered to be soft, with a total hardness of less than 75g/m3


What bottled waters do you have access to?  Can you get Evian? Fiji?

 

What brand of mixer is that?

If this is your first bake in the Koda, then I'm impressed.  Sure, the dough isn't where it needs to be yet, but, you're doing a lot of things right.

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Quote


Yep, that's the yeast I'm using.
 

Quote

If this is your first bake in the Koda, then I'm impressed.  Sure, the dough isn't where it needs to be yet, but, you're doing a lot of things right.


Thanks! Yep that was the very first pie in the Koda. The 16" model gives me the same, if not more space to work in than I have in my home oven with a pizza steel jacked up quite high when making my NY pizzas. In addition to that I propped the Koda up on quite a high table which made it even easier to work with. Awesome bit of kit!
 

Quote

What bottled waters do you have access to?  Can you get Evian? Fiji?


That's super interesting what you brought up about the water :hmmm: We have chlorinated tap water here, and we have a filter in addition to the tap. I always drink from the filtered line as some days you get a strong chlorine smell from the water directly from the tap. However I always make pizzas using water directly from the tap 🤔

The other week when I made pizzas I used a new can of the above yeast (was using some old generic IDY prior) and water from the filter line. It overproofed like crazy. I put it entirely down to the fact that I was using new yeast, and a different yeast at that. But maybe it was a combination of the new yeast and the filtered water! 🤔

Interestingly I left two balls from yesterday uncooked overnight and even now, nearly 22 hours into the second ferment, they're looking quite sad, like they've barely risen at all.

After reading this this morning I mixed up three fresh dough balls: One with the tap water, one with the filtered water, and one with the only bottled water I had on hand (no idea if it's 'hard / soft', label shown below). It'll be interesting to see how these progress throughout the day today.

As for Evian & Fiji water, Evian isn't that big over here but I have seen Fiji in smaller quantities. I've have a browse at the supermarket the next time I'm there.
What specifically should I be looking for when I'm looking at bottled water labels?

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Well, 8 hours later and I'd say that this has nothing to do with the water, I was expecting (almost hoping) that the tap water would show little rise, and the others would show a much greater rise. However it was the bottled water that showed less rise than the others 🤷‍♂️

I'll try the recipe again but this time do one or more of the following:
- Use more yeast
- Start with warmer water
- Proof the dough in a warmer space
- Proof for longer

Photo-12.thumb.jpg.295ec78bd33e578692df32f9aefe709a.jpg

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15 hours ago, Merkinz said:

However it was the bottled water that showed less rise than the others 🤷‍♂️


The conclusion that you're reaching is not quite as cut and dry as you think :)

Gluten traps water, and yeast relies on water activity to do their thing, so a stronger/higher gluten dough will have less yeast activity and rise slower.  But... a stronger dough, if given enough time, should, if compared to a dough with insufficient strength, eventually reach a higher peak. While I applaud your drive to get to the bottom of this so quickly, when you change the strength of the dough (with harder water), you're slowing down the rise, so, when you compare doughs side by side, it's apples to oranges.

You look at the bottled water dough ball and condemn it for not rising as much, and I look at it and say that, since it didn't rise as much, it's proof that it's stronger dough, and thus the harder bottled water is superior- and, had you measure where the doughs eventually peaked, the bottled water version would have risen higher.

Dough (and ultimately crust) volume relies on two primary factors - yeast activity and gluten development.  Gluten forms the structure of the bubble and yeast blows it up.  You had two separate potential issues - water chemistry/softness and yeast viability. 

Long story short, the Tongariro, at 150 total dissolved solids (that's one number you want to look at), and a relative neutral pH (that's the other number), is a solid choice for water.  It also shouldn't be heavily chlorinated.  Chlorination can get a bit contentious :)  For the longest time, I came to the simple conclusion that chlorine, being anti-fungal, is bad for yeast.  I actually had a swimming pool analogy that Tony Gemignani 'borrowed' for his Pizza Bible :)  It was later pointed out to me, though, that chlorine is incredibly reactive, and that flour gives it a boatload of overall surface area to react with. So, in theory, flour should quickly inactivate the anti-fungal properties of chlorine.  Still, if you don't dissolve yeast in water first, you can end up with pockets of undissolved yeast, so I'm a huge proponent of dissolving yeast (not proofing, but merely dissolving).  Since dissolving the yeast gives it some alone time with the water, then perhaps the chlorine can have an impact then.  So, while I don't have concrete data on chlorinated water's impact on yeast, I think it's wise to steer clear of heavily chlorinated water.

That solves your potential water issue. On the yeast front... I'm not enamored with the packaging on the Caputo yeast.  Ideally, this is how yeast should be bought and stored (in the fridge):

 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fleischmann-s-Classic-Bread-Machine-Yeast-4-oz/10306744

 

Glass jar, metal lid with a rubber seal, air tight.  You can see how the Caputo yeast is not that.  I'm pretty sure there's a layer of foil somewhere in the structure, but, it feels a lot like a packet- and packets are super sketchy. Since you can't get jarred yeast in New Zealand.  I think your best bet is vacuum packed. I'm not familiar with this brand, but you want something like this

https://realfooddirect.co.nz/products/bakels-instant-active-dried-yeast

The split second you open it, you'll want to transfer it to a mason jar- and store it in the fridge.

Not that it's time to completely give up on the Caputo. Try the Caputo with warmer water. A stable room temp will always be your best bet.  Since you're (now) using bottled water, try to find an area of the home that's got a fairly stable temp and store the water (and the flour) there- and proof your dough there as well. Stability is more important than a higher temperature.  You want an area where, every time you make the dough, the flour, the water and the proof are all at the same temp.

I took the yeast quantity for this recipe directly from the VPN guidelines.  I just checked my NY numbers, and, for a same day dough (about 6 hours), I'm at .46% IDY.  NY isn't Neapolitan, but, still, that's a pretty big discrepancy.  The VPN was fresh yeast only until a couple years ago, so maybe they're a bit off with the conversion.  While I kind of like deferring to their (typically) extensive knowledge, I think we can come to the conclusion that .06% isn't going to cut it- either with Caputo yeast or another brand. A jump to .4% could be a little extreme.  I would, on your next batch, try .2.  IDY should weigh 3.2g per teaspoon.  Yeast isn't compactible, so measuring it by volume is perfectly fine.  1/2 teaspoon will put you at .19%.  That's what I'd go with.

TL;DR Next time, go with the Tongariro and 1/2 t. of the Caputo. And maybe order some vacuum packed yeast.

Edited by scott123 (log)
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@scott123 

 

very nice presentation .

 

back in the day , I used to get 'vacuum' packed 

 

instant yeast , open and transfer to a

 

very clean mayonnaise jar ( plastic ) .  I used several payers

 

of plastic wrap for the plastic lid to stay air-tight

 

and kept it in the refrigerator.

 

I never had a problem , using it for bread machine bread.

 

I could have easily used a Mason ( glass jar ) but  didn't think of it

 

i have  """  several """""  old mayo jars , here and there 

 

basically all over , why I gravitate in that direction.

 

do you feel glass makes a significant difference ?

 

understanding , moisture,   light , dryness etc are

 

also very important.

 

thank you .

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21 minutes ago, scott123 said:


The conclusion that you're reaching is not quite as cut and dry as you think :)

Gluten traps water, and yeast relies on water activity to do their thing, so a stronger/higher gluten dough will have less yeast activity and rise slower.  But... a stronger dough, if given enough time, should, if compared to a dough with insufficient strength, eventually reach a higher peak. While I applaud your drive to get to the bottom of this so quickly, when you change the strength of the dough (with harder water), you're slowing down the rise, so, when you compare doughs side by side, it's apples to oranges.

You look at the bottled water dough ball and condemn it for not rising as much, and I look at it and say that, since it didn't rise as much, it's proof that it's stronger dough, and thus the harder bottled water is superior- and, had you measure where the doughs eventually peaked, the bottled water version would have risen higher.

Dough (and ultimately crust) volume relies on two primary factors - yeast activity and gluten development.  Gluten forms the structure of the bubble and yeast blows it up.  You had two separate potential issues - water chemistry/softness and yeast viability. 

Long story short, the Tongariro, at 150 total dissolved solids (that's one number you want to look at), and a relative neutral pH (that's the other number), is a solid choice for water.  It also shouldn't be heavily chlorinated.  Chlorination can get a bit contentious :)  For the longest time, I came to the simple conclusion that chlorine, being anti-fungal, is bad for yeast.  I actually had a swimming pool analogy that Tony Gemignani 'borrowed' for his Pizza Bible :)  It was later pointed out to me, though, that chlorine is incredibly reactive, and that flour gives it a boatload of overall surface area to react with. So, in theory, flour should quickly inactivate the anti-fungal properties of chlorine.  Still, if you don't dissolve yeast in water first, you can end up with pockets of undissolved yeast, so I'm a huge proponent of dissolving yeast (not proofing, but merely dissolving).  Since dissolving the yeast gives it some alone time with the water, then perhaps the chlorine can have an impact then.  So, while I don't have concrete data on chlorinated water's impact on yeast, I think it's wise to steer clear of heavily chlorinated water.

That solves your potential water issue. On the yeast front... I'm not enamored with the packaging on the Caputo yeast.  Ideally, this is how yeast should be bought and stored (in the fridge):

 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fleischmann-s-Classic-Bread-Machine-Yeast-4-oz/10306744

 

Glass jar, metal lid with a rubber seal, air tight.  You can see how the Caputo yeast is not that.  I'm pretty sure there's a layer of foil somewhere in the structure, but, it feels a lot like a packet- and packets are super sketchy. Since you can't get jarred yeast in New Zealand.  I think your best bet is vacuum packed. I'm not familiar with this brand, but you want something like this

https://realfooddirect.co.nz/products/bakels-instant-active-dried-yeast

The split second you open it, you'll want to transfer it to a mason jar- and store it in the fridge.

Not that it's time to completely give up on the Caputo. Try the Caputo with warmer water. A stable room temp will always be your best bet.  Since you're (now) using bottled water, try to find an area of the home that's got a fairly stable temp and store the water (and the flour) there- and proof your dough there as well. Stability is more important than a higher temperature.  You want an area where, every time you make the dough, the flour, the water and the proof are all at the same temp.

I took the yeast quantity for this recipe directly from the VPN guidelines.  I just checked my NY numbers, and, for a same day dough (about 6 hours), I'm at .46% IDY.  NY isn't Neapolitan, but, still, that's a pretty big discrepancy.  The VPN was fresh yeast only until a couple years ago, so maybe they're a bit off with the conversion.  While I kind of like deferring to their (typically) extensive knowledge, I think we can come to the conclusion that .06% isn't going to cut it- either with Caputo yeast or another brand. A jump to .4% could be a little extreme.  I would, on your next batch, try .2.  IDY should weigh 3.2g per teaspoon.  Yeast isn't compactible, so measuring it by volume is perfectly fine.  1/2 teaspoon will put you at .19%.  That's what I'd go with.

TL;DR Next time, go with the Tongariro and 1/2 t. of the Caputo. And maybe order some vacuum packed yeast.


Thanks for the very insightful reply! Very interesting 🤔 I'll give this another go this coming week with the changes you've suggested. I'll seek out some better yeast too, I've seen a few vacuum packed varieties in the shops here, but never one jarred.
 

5 hours ago, weinoo said:

What I really want to know is how your physical and spiritual renewals are going?


🤣 I'll save the water for the pizzas and find a nice single malt for my spiritual renewal 😂

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22 hours ago, rotuts said:

do you feel glass makes a significant difference ?


Do I feel that glass makes a difference? Yes. Can I prove it? No.  I'm in the same place as heavily chlorinated water.  Just like I know chlorine to be anti-fungal and avoid heavily chlorinated water (but have no proof), I also know that air is the enemy of yeast, and thus avoid air permeable materials like plastic.

We do know, for certain, that the air permeability of packets wreaks havoc on yeast, but there is no data comparing the air permeability of packets vs PET (mayo jar).

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On 12/10/2021 at 12:33 PM, Merkinz said:

 


 I'll save the water for the pizzas and find a nice single malt for my spiritual renewal 😂


I like you. 

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Don't ask. Eat it.

www.kayatthekeyboard.wordpress.com

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  • 5 months later...

such a nice idea . . . $500+/- for a doohickie I have to get, fire up, put away . . . after taking three minutes to bake a pizza....?

 

my oven & stone goes to 550'F - works for me....

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2 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

such a nice idea . . . $500+/- for a doohickie I have to get, fire up, put away . . . after taking three minutes to bake a pizza....?

 

my oven & stone goes to 550'F - works for me....

Maybe location-specific but I refuse to make pizza in the summer (which now seems to be May - Nov),  heating up the house with the oven and cranking up the AC to compensate.  An Ooni would get around that issue rather nicely.

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