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MetsFan5

Mario Batali and MeToo - What are your thoughts?

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its easy to think that the Yelling and Screaming is the norm for exceptionally high end restaurants.

 

its possible.  but consider a chef like Raymond Blanc.

 

I have not been to any of his restaurants , but have seen many of his PBS / BBC cooking shows.

 

I doubt he has to raise his voice , but cannot say that for sure.

 

consider other high pressure work places.  those that are more effective have a more thoughtful tenor

 

yet require exceptional precision and close to perfect results, with exhausting schedules .

 

Ive been in several of these .

 

I think the Terror in the Kitchen is personality based , not a requirement for success 

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You're reading into what people have said; no one here said it's a requirement for success.

 

But to many chefs (and I use the word "chef" to denote someone who is actually running a kitchen, the chief, if you will), there are 2 ways to do things: the wrong way, and the chef's way.  And it's needs to be the chef's way every time, so that people can expect to have that same dish they love the next time they come back to that chef's restaurant.

 

 


Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

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@weinoo

 

correct.

 

I meant that there are way's that are extremely effective in passing on The Chef's Way

 

and ways that speak more to a chef's vanity 

 

[ ed.: Vanity <= latin , Vanos  ie empty ]

 

and etc.

 

Im surprised that there are a few chef's that still have not been rounded up

 

that have done possible more that MB

 

there is no excuse for any of this.

 

MB , unlike the person Im thinking of , 

 

has far more insight and talent.

 

loosing that is not the end of the world, but unfortunate.

 

insight and talent are no excuse what so ever to be  a

 

#R()^*#@(R%^@#_R%@#^

 

to those who depend on you for your training and their future for their livelihood 

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On 5/22/2018 at 11:11 AM, weinoo said:

You're reading into what people have said; no one here said it's a requirement for success.

 

But to many chefs (and I use the word "chef" to denote someone who is actually running a kitchen, the chief, if you will), there are 2 ways to do things: the wrong way, and the chef's way.  And it's needs to be the chef's way every time, so that people can expect to have that same dish they love the next time they come back to that chef's restaurant.

 

 

 

I know, I know. And, places like the military purposefully break down a person's personality so they can rebuild it to be useful in service. But, of course, in the US, one signs away one's civil rights when entering the military.

 

Flay dropped out of high school. Slowly got a GED, then attended and graduated from the French Culinary Institute in NYC. And he started cooking in restaurants while in school and got promoted to head chef by default one night when people quit. He got picked up early on by the FN because he worked close to the studio and it wasn't a big deal to get him to drop by. Anyway, most culinary schools require students to take management classes do you think the FCI taught this as a management technique?

 

I'd argue that Thomas Keller has done well in training staff without a raised voice and fountain of negativity. Same with Raymond Blanc. And many other chefs. And, most anyone working in a chain restaurant since forever knows that it's not an optimal way to train people.

 

I had no intention of equating Flay's behavior with Batali's crass and criminal activities, I was just pointing out that Mr 'disrespect for his tools' (I won't ever refer to him as a chef) isn't a pleasant person.

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6 hours ago, Lisa Shock said:

I'd argue that Thomas Keller has done well in training staff without a raised voice and fountain of negativity. Same with Raymond Blanc. And many other chefs. And, most anyone working in a chain restaurant since forever knows that it's not an optimal way to train people.


Which is why I said sometimes a person has to look for the employment situation with a management style that works for what they need or can tolerate as an employee. If a person doesn't approve of a management style that is used in a place of business, they shouldn't strive to work for that business. If having working for that person or business on their resume is important to them, then they should go into it accepting that they're going to be working in an environment that's not within their comfort zone. This is talking strictly within the bounds of propriety of course, not the sorts of crap Batali and others have been accused of. 

 

6 hours ago, Lisa Shock said:

I had no intention of equating Flay's behavior with Batali's crass and criminal activities, I was just pointing out that Mr 'disrespect for his tools' (I won't ever refer to him as a chef) isn't a pleasant person.


That's fine, nobody is trying to convince you that you should like Bobby Flay or his management style. But if being an unpleasant person was a crime, especially with the subjectivity involved in deciding if a person is unpleasant, most of us would be a criminal by somebody's standards.

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It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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8 hours ago, Lisa Shock said:

I'd argue that Thomas Keller has done well in training staff without a raised voice and fountain of negativity. Same with Raymond Blanc. And many other chefs. And, most anyone working in a chain restaurant since forever knows that it's not an optimal way to train people.

Referring to Keller is nice.  But maybe not yelling is what got his NYC restaurant demoted to 2 stars in 2016...NY Times review.

 

I write that only a bit sarcastically, because while I'm sure "many other chefs" are successful without a raised voice, I have a feeling that there are many successful chefs and restaurateurs who've on occasion raised their voices. If only to be heard above the cacophony of a restaurant kitchen, of course.

 

The reference to chain restaurants is interesting; I find that rather than raise voices, they often just call the police for no good reason.


Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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9 hours ago, Tri2Cook said:

That's fine, nobody is trying to convince you that you should like Bobby Flay or his management style. But if being an unpleasant person was a crime, especially with the subjectivity involved in deciding if a person is unpleasant, most of us would be a criminal by somebody's standards.

 

In my opinion, this is the crux of the matter.  Its not that these are 2 different behaviors (Flay, Batali) on the same scale, its that one of them did things that our society deems injurious enough to others to pass laws against &/or not condone as acceptable human behavior.  Flay's "style" may well be counter-productive (or not) or assholic; however, it doesn't rise (to my knowledge or anything written here or elsewhere so far) over any commonly defined line and, therefore, doesn't belong in the same category.  Perhaps a Restaurant Life thread discussing the merits of various kitchen management styles or even one on chefs who are obnoxious.  But to even combine the two men and their "issues" is to minimize one and unfairly taint the other.   We should keep focused on discrimination and assault and not divert to other kitchen sink issues (do I get credit for half a pun?).


Edited by Steve R. (log)
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From the LA Times: Mario Batali's three Las Vegas restaurants are closing in light of sexual misconduct allegations

 

The restaurants are located in hotels owned by the Las Vegas Sands Corp - B&B Ristorante and Otto in the Venetian and CarneVino in the Palazzo - and it's the Las Vegas Sands Corp that wants to end the partnership.

The article says most of the 298 employees will be laid off. 

Hopefully they'll find other positions and I know it happens all the time but it's disappointing that lots of lower level employees will be affected by the offenses of a company leader.  

 

Edited to add:  Ditto the staff of The Chew: ABC Cancels ‘The Chew’ After Seven Seasons


Edited by blue_dolphin (log)
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It is an interesting situation as they explain their philosophy about changing the culture within the restaurant(s). More than the catchy headlines. 

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3 hours ago, gfweb said:

 

Thanks for saving me the trouble of trying to link.  After reading the article this afternoon I have even less sympathy for Bloomfield.  And I am more content to cook and eat at home.

 

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It’s a sad story.

April was ill equipped to deal with the real obstacles to success.

 

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I posted this in another discussion regarding Mario Batali:  "New York police have closed the investigations into Mario Batali"

 

Quote

The New York Police Department has closed its two investigations into sexual misconduct allegations against celebrity chef and restaurateur Mario Batali without filing charges...


 

“Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'

Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.”

– From Fox TV’s “Family Guy”

 

Tim Oliver

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Posted (edited)

"Mario Batali Gives Up All His Restaurants"

Quote

The 20-year partnership between the celebrity chef Mario Batali and the Bastianich family of restaurateurs was formally dissolved on Wednesday, more than a year after several women accused Mr. Batali of sexual harassment and assault.

Mr. Batali “will no longer profit from the restaurants in any way, shape or form,” said Tanya Bastianich Manuali, who will head day-to-day operations at a new company, as yet unnamed, created to replace the Batali & Bastianich Hospitality Group.

Didn't know where else to post this as a coda of sorts.


Edited by Toliver (log)
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“Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'

Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.”

– From Fox TV’s “Family Guy”

 

Tim Oliver

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28 minutes ago, eugenep said:

Mr. Batali looks much thinner and older now in his recent court appearance - like he lost a lot of weight and his skin is starting to sag and show wrinkles. 

 

It's like he's aged 20 years in the past 2 years or so. 

 

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6040838243001/#sp=show-clips

 

 

Good. 

The  tragedy is that lesser chefs who did this stuff too will never be prosecuted. 

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On 8/17/2019 at 6:46 PM, eugenep said:

Mr. Batali looks much thinner and older now in his recent court appearance - like he lost a lot of weight and his skin is starting to sag and show wrinkles. 

 

It's like he's aged 20 years in the past 2 years or so. 

 

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6040838243001/#sp=show-clips

 

 

Much, much thinner. There's a clip in the video showing him at his top weight and it's a striking contrast to his weight now.

And please, Mario, the man-bun went out of fashion years ago. Give it up.¬¬

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“Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'

Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.”

– From Fox TV’s “Family Guy”

 

Tim Oliver

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1 hour ago, Toliver said:

Much, much thinner. There's a clip in the video showing him at his top weight and it's a striking contrast to his weight now.

And please, Mario, the man-bun went out of fashion years ago. Give it up.¬¬

 

And pleas give up those Crocs and cargo shorts, they’re ridiculous.

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Giving Batali any time on eG makes me uneasy, but if we have to talk about him I'm in favor of keeping our priorities straight. The crocs, the bun and the shorts are not relevant. For too long women have been judged by their looks and their clothes and their weight, so maybe to focus on anything but his reprehensible behavior is to weaken any argument against him and his ilk. The fact that so many men have escaped the justice they deserve is really unfortunate, but it helps if the high profile perpetrators get at least a fraction of what's due. You think he's aged? Look what happened to Paul Manafort and Jeffrey Epstein after a couple of weeks in prison.

 

Right now I'm just hitting a low point. The Guatemala story above the fold on today's front page of the NYT made me sick. 

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I did read in an article in the Economist where women of different age groups diverged on #MeToo.

 

The article said that women in older age groups weren't as supportive of #MeToo as younger age groups because they saw men like Mr. Mario Batali as their husbands and sons and they were afraid that the men in their only family might be fall in a similar way. 

 

It seemed that the older generation had empathy for the males because they saw them as their own sons or could see them in that way. 

 

Interesting how age demographics leads to different views according to the article. 


"Hmmm....what would Don Quixote do?" 

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22 minutes ago, eugenep said:

It seemed that the older generation had empathy for the males because they saw them as their own sons or could see them in that way. 

 

Unfortunately, sometimes your son is a rapist.  Do they have daughters?


Edited by pastrygirl (log)
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10 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Unfortunately, sometimes your son is a rapist.  Do they have daughters?

 

the article didn't say? But yeah - I totally agree with you. 

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"Hmmm....what would Don Quixote do?" 

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