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&roid

Kitchen / Dining Area Renovation

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It's beginning to look very good. The contemporary aesthetic design is very elegant without being pretentious.

 

BTW, I am sure you have planned to have distraction marks on those glass doors and wall. I know of more than one serious injuries of people walking thru them. Distraction marks  on glass doors and walls are require by law here in the USA in public spaces.

 

dcarch


Edited by dcarch (log)
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Distraction marks a very good idea (we have a lot of glass in our office and until the film was applied, I almost walked into it several times) not just for humans, but for birds! Nothing more distressing than hearing the noise of a bird smacking into the glass. Or having them see their reflection and trying to attack it.

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"Only dull people are brilliant at breakfast" - Oscar Wilde

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I’ve not come across distraction marks - what do they look like? They sound a very good idea if they don’t get in the way of the view too much 

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1 minute ago, &roid said:

I’ve not come across distraction marks - what do they look like? They sound a very good idea if they don’t get in the way of the view too much 

 

Temporarily, use colored masking tape.

 

For permanent, search eBay or Amazon, "adhesive backed distraction marks". Come in many designs, from flowers , butterflies, to abstract art.

 

dcarch 

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36 minutes ago, dcarch said:

 

Temporarily, use colored masking tape.

 

For permanent, search eBay or Amazon, "adhesive backed distraction marks". Come in many designs, from flowers , butterflies, to abstract art.

 

dcarch 

 

Here's what Amazon shows me when  I search for "adhesive backed distraction marks"  Nada.

 

I have a lot of floor to ceiling windows so I'm interested in options compatible with a modern home. 

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22 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

 

Here's what Amazon shows me when  I search for "adhesive backed distraction marks"  Nada.

 

I have a lot of floor to ceiling windows so I'm interested in options compatible with a modern home. 

 

Try "privacy film" , Just cut it up and apply.

 

Very important to have. A friend's daughter had her nose sewn back. Another time, saw a NY Times reporter ran into a glass wall trying to catch his bus. Instead of the bus, he needed an ambulance.

 

dcarch


Edited by dcarch (log)

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"Anti-collision window clings" or "anti-collision window decals" are two other search terms. Just for the sake of show, here's a set of hummingbird anti-collision window clings at Amazon. You can find falcons, leaves, geometric patterns, butterflies, and so on. They range in price from inexpensive opaque outlines to beautiful stained-glass-looking dragonflies.

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Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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I saw a woman obliterate her nose on a plate glass window in a local shopping centre a couple of ears ago - not pretty!

 

will definitely look into these 

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Things have really broken down with the kitchen company. They are now over three weeks delayed (on a fit which was meant to take just two). They sent their workshop manager out to inspect things at the end of last week - his view was pretty damning, doesn’t seem like the fitter has done anything that he should have 😡 

 

I’m sure we’ll get it all sorted but it definitely won’t be done before new year now. Grrrr...

 

If only things indoors were going as well as outside, the builders have pretty much finished now, the resin floor got poured at the weekend and the last of the electrics have been done out there:

 

 

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DC25FAFC-FEB0-4DAA-8F1E-A644A382EED5.jpeg

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1 hour ago, &roid said:

Things have really broken down with the kitchen company. They are now over three weeks delayed (on a fit which was meant to take just two). They sent their workshop manager out to inspect things at the end of last week - his view was pretty damning, doesn’t seem like the fitter has done anything that he should have 😡 

 

I’m sure we’ll get it all sorted but it definitely won’t be done before new year now. Grrrr...

 

If only things indoors were going as well as outside, the builders have pretty much finished now, the resin floor got poured at the weekend and the last of the electrics have been done out there:

 

I wish I could frowny-face and like at the same time.  Sorry to hear about your troubles, but the outside looks great!

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KennethT said it for me.

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Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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It’s like childbirth. The memory will fade and it’ll be fine in the end. 

 

It was the worst six weeks of my life, but it’s just a dim memory at this point. 

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It'll be wonderful when it's finished. 

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Don't ask. Eat it.

www.kayatthekeyboard.wordpress.com

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It finally feels like we are edging nearer the finish line! The first of the worktops went in today, I’m really happy with them so far - great attention to detail with them, such a relief after our stress with the cabinet people. 

 

Speaking of which, they are finally taking things seriously and want to make things right with the cabinets. Just trying to agree a plan to get a new fitter that we trust in to fix everything. 

 

The worktop guys guys are back tomorrow to fit the splashback behind the rangetop and (very exciting!) the island. All being well the Wolf will get connected up to the gas and I can actually start cooking! I may even have cooked my last meal on the awful induction plate 😁 (though I’ll believe it all when I see it after the last few weeks!)

 

2CFA922B-C920-49D0-A831-964E517B5FE4.thumb.jpeg.286e811eb5a8a83198aa83736e94556e.jpegA0BBC068-DAE0-4838-BE0C-A7A05D7894F9.thumb.jpeg.32855e24ae87990278e67879ab3aba91.jpeg65957C3B-BA55-4BD6-8255-A932530FE442.thumb.jpeg.b2412e4f0068c21e9492cba448b9bd21.jpeg802725A1-45B2-4614-BCEA-042872199084.thumb.jpeg.502a188f107bad43f4e6162c3209ec65.jpeg

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Love the top, and love the way it goes down the side to the floor! Have never seen that before.

 

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Don't ask. Eat it.

www.kayatthekeyboard.wordpress.com

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Yeah, I like that waterfall countertop, really nice detail. 

 

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Is that a warming drawer beneath the Wolf?


Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

;

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2 hours ago, Porthos said:

Is that a warming drawer beneath the Wolf?

 

Alas no, it’s just a gap at the moment but will be filled with another of the regular drawers either side. The rangetop has slotted in where the top drawer of those middle pair used to be. 

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Another really good day! The stone guys pretty much finished the island today and were able to get the splashback in early enough that our plumber could get the rangetop connected - look, it works!

 

85FF6800-B2D3-4CC2-B38C-A2834DBAED65.thumb.jpeg.7bb51b751f07a18135b958070ad0728b.jpeg

 

We dont have taps yet, and the bank of units around the fridge is miles off being done. But it finally feels like I’ve got a kitchen back 😃😃 I will never again have to cook on that horrendous induction piece of c***!

 

9F72387A-3C51-4AD9-BFD9-FB0C19DC9B99.thumb.jpeg.497202ac644d1c5eb8db5b727724a1ae.jpeg

B286B6A2-7D7C-4D3E-B457-15CF0FD225EE.thumb.jpeg.c3a0cdac2fce5c93cee9ca5d499e68ad.jpeg

 

Our furniture arrived too, so tomorrow morning we’ll be unpacking that, trying to get stuff vaguely in order before we go away for the week to see family over Christmas. 

 

First thing though I’ll be queuing at our butchers for the festive meat order, I’m looking forward to having a bit of space in which to get the turkeys ready.

 

I’m so much happier today than I’ve been for weeks!

 

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, &roid said:

Another really good day! The stone guys pretty much finished the island today and were able to get the splashback in early enough that our plumber could get the rangetop connected - look, it works!

 

 

 

We dont have taps yet, and the bank of units around the fridge is miles off being done. But it finally feels like I’ve got a kitchen back 😃😃 I will never again have to cook on that horrendous induction piece of c***!

 

 

 

 

Our furniture arrived too, so tomorrow morning we’ll be unpacking that, trying to get stuff vaguely in order before we go away for the week to see family over Christmas. 

 

First thing though I’ll be queuing at our butchers for the festive meat order, I’m looking forward to having a bit of space in which to get the turkeys ready.

 

I’m so much happier today than I’ve been for weeks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

So nice!   Congratulations!!

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Yay!

 

A very merry Christmas, indeed!

 

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Don't ask. Eat it.

www.kayatthekeyboard.wordpress.com

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I'm so happy for you! It looks amazing and not far to go to have everything finished, right? You are going to LOVE this space!  🙂

 

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1 hour ago, FauxPas said:

I'm so happy for you! It looks amazing and not far to go to have everything finished, right? You are going to LOVE this space!  🙂

 

 

Fingers crossed there are about three days of cabinet work left to do. Although I’m a little sceptical of this as I suspect they are going to have to undo quite a lot of bad work that the previous fitter did...

 

After that, the stone people are back to fit the wall cladding near the dining area, a small worktop in a breakfast cabinet and the tops near the bbq. A few small electrical jobs and we’ll be done!

 

It finally feels within our grasp. It might, and I’ll whisper this, even be starting to feel worth the pain!

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      The temperature settings are the same in both modes, with 22 selectable temperatures from 285F (140C) to 500F (260C). Other than for the very lowest temperature setting, each setting increase results in a 10F temperature increase. Usefully, the display shows the set temperature, not 1-22; and until the set temperature is reached, the display indicates “Preheat”. The unit beeps when it reaches the set temperature. The Panasonic measures pan temperature using an IR sensor beneath the glass; this sensor sits about 1 inch outside the centerpoint of the painted positioning markings, yet inside of the induction coil.

      The timer operation is fast and intuitive. Once the power or temperature is set and operating, the operator merely keys the timer’s dedicated up/down buttons, and the timer display area activates. Timer settings are in any 30-second interval between 30 seconds and 9 ½ hours, and the display will show remaining time. The beeps at the end of cooking are loud.
       
      There are nine available memory programs, which can be set for either power or temperature, along with time. Programming entails pressing and holding the Program mode button, selecting the program (1-9), then picking and setting the power or temperature, then setting the timer, and finally pressing and holding the Program button again. After that, to use any of the entered programs, you simply press the Program button, select which program, and the unit will run that program within 3 seconds.
       
      In addition to Heat-Time programmability, the KY-MK3500 also provides the ability to vary 9 of the unit’s default settings: (1) Decreasing the power level granularity from 20 to 10; (2) Changing the temperature display to Celsius; (3) Enabling a long cook time shutoff safety feature; (4) Enabling the main power auto shutoff feature; (5) Disabling the glowing circle; (6) Lowering or disabling the auditory beep signals’ volume; (7) Customizing the timer finish beep; (8) Customizing the Preheat notification beep; and (9) Customizing the interval for filter cleanings.
       
      D. Maintenance
       
      The KY-MK3500 has a plastic air intake filter which can be removed and cleaned. This is not dishwashable. This filter is merely a plastic grate with ¼” square holes, so it is questionable what exactly —besides greasy dust bunnies—will be filtered. Panasonic recommends the filter be cleaned once a week. Besides that, the Ceran surface and stainless housing clean just like other appliances.
       
      IV. Acceptable Cookware
       
      Panasonic claims the unit will accept cast iron, enameled iron, stainless steel, copper, and aluminum with two provisos. First, very thin aluminum and copper may “move” on the appliance. And second, thin aluminum pans may “deform”. Panasonic does not address carbon steel pans, but I verified that they do indeed work. They also warn of the obvious fact that glass and ceramics will not work.
       
      Buyers are also warned against using cookware of specific cookware bottom shapes: round, footed, thin, and domed. Trying to use these, Panasonic warns, may disable safety features and reduce or eliminate pan heating.
       
      As far as minimum pan diameter goes, Panasonic claims the KY-MK3500 needs 5” diameter in ferromagnetic pans, and 6” in copper or aluminum ones. My own tests have shown that in fact the unit will function with a cast iron fondue pot, the base of which is only 4 1/8” in diameter, and also works with a copper saucepan, the base of which is almost exactly 5” in diameter. Obviously, the field will be most active at the very edges of such small pans, but they do function.
       
      V. Evaluation in Use

      I can say that not only does the Panasonic KY-MK3500 “work” with copper and aluminum pans, but that it works very well with them. Thermally, thick gauge conductive material pans perform in close emulation of the same pans on gas, even though there are no combustion gasses flowing up and around the pan. I found this startling.
       
      Nevertheless, a searching comparison between copper and ferromagnetic pans on this unit isn’t as straightforward as one might expect. The Panasonic is capable of dumping a full 3500 watts into ferromagnetic pans, but is limited to 2400 watts for aluminum and copper. Despite copper’s and aluminum’s superiorities in conductivity, that extra 1100 watts is going to win every speed-boil race.
       
      I initially thought I could handicap such a race simply by using the temperature setting and comparing the times required to achieve a “preheat” in a pans of cold water. Alas, no—the Panasonic’s IR function signified the copper pan was preheated to 350F before the water even reached 70F! Obviously, the entire thermal system of cold food in a cold pan needs to come to equilibrium before the Panasonic’s temperature readout becomes meaningful.

      A. Temperature Settings
       
      Unfortunately, with every pan I tried, the temperature settings were wildly inaccurate for measuring the temperature of the food. I heated 2 liters of peanut oil in a variety of pots, disk-base, enameled cast iron enameled steel, and copper. I thought it might be useful to see how close to 350F and 375F the settings were for deep frying. The oil in a Le Creuset 5.5Q Dutch oven set to 350F never made it past 285F, and it took 40:00 to get there. I kept bumping up the setting until I found that the setting for 420F will hold the oil at 346F. A disk-based pot didn’t hit 365F until the temperature setting was boosted to 400F. The only pan which came remotely close to being true to the settings was a 2mm silvered copper oven, which heated its oil to 327F when the Panasonic was set for 350F, and 380F when set for 410F.
       
      The temperature function was a lot closer to true when simply preheating an empty pan. With a setting of 350F, all the shiny stainless pans heated to just a few degrees higher (about 353-357F) and held there. This is useful for judging the Leidenfrost Point (which is the heat at which you can oil your SS and have it cook relatively nonstick) and potentially for “seasoning” carbon steel, SS and aluminum, but not much else, since it doesn’t translate to actual food temperature. There’s also the issue of the temperature settings *starting* at 285F, so holding a lower temperature for, e.g., tempering chocolate or a sous vide bath, or even a simmer would be by-guess-by-golly just like any other hob—your only resort is lots of experience with lower *power* settings.
       
      With heat-tarnished copper, a 350F setting resulted in a wide swinging between 353F and 365F, which I attribute to the copper shedding heat far faster than the other constructions, once the circuit stops the power at temperature. Then, when the circuit cycles the power back on, the copper is so responsive that it quickly overshoots the setting. Aluminum, on the other hand, *undershot*, the 350F setting, registering a cycle of 332-340F.

      I conclude that the IR sensor is set for some particular emissivity, probably for that of stainless steel. If true, the Panasonic, even though it automatically switches frequencies, does not compensate for the different emissivities of copper and aluminum. And even if Panasonic added dedicated aluminum and copper IR sensors, there is enough difference between dirty and polished that the added cost would be wasted. Bottom line here: the temperature setting mode is of extremely low utility, and should not be trusted.
       
      B. Power Mode – Pan Material Comparisons
       
      Given the differences in power setting granularity and maximum power between the two frequencies, it is difficult to assess what X watts into the pot means in, say, a copper-versus-clad or –disk showdown. What is clear, however, is that Setting X under disk and clad seems “hotter” than the same setting under copper and aluminum.

      I will need to precisely calibrate the Panasonic for wattage anyway for the hyperconductivity project, so I will obtain a higher-powered watt meter to determine the wattage of every power setting for both frequencies. Until then, however, the only way I can fairly handicap a race is to apply a reduction figure to the ferromagnetic setting (2400W being 69% of 3500W). Given that we know the wattage at the maximum settings, we can infer that Setting 14 (actually 13.8) on the 20-step ferromagnetic range iis approximately the same heat output as the maximum setting (18) for copper/aluminum.

      The boil times for 4 liters of 50F water in 10” diameter pots shocked me. The 10” x 3mm tinned copper pot’s water reached 211F in 36:41. Not an especially fast time at 2400 watts. The 10” disk-based pressure cooker bottom? Well, it didn’t make it—it took an hour to get to 208F and then hung there. So that left me wondering if the Panasonic engineers simply decided that 2400 watts was enough for copper and aluminum. I have a theory why the copper pot boiled and the SS one didn’t under the same power, but getting into that’s for another time.

      C. Evenness Comparisons
       
      The wires which generate the induction field are wound in a circular pattern; when energized, they create a torus-shaped magnetic field. The wound coil is constructed with an empty hole at its center. As matters of physics, the magnetic field’s intensity drops off extremely fast as a function of the distance from the coil; a few millimeters above the Ceran, the field is so weak no meaningful heat will be generated. This means that most induction cooktops heat *only* the very bottom of pans, and in a distinct 2-dimensional “doughnut” shape.

      All of the above can result in a pan having a cooler central spot, a hotter ring directly over the coil, and a cooler periphery outside the coil. It is left to the cookware to try to even out these thermal discontinuities when cooking. Some materials and pan constructions are better at this than others: the successful constructions utilize more highly-conductive metals such as aluminum and copper, but unless the material is very thick, there can be a ring-shaped hotspot that can scorch food.
      Until the Panasonic arrived to market, hotspot comparisons between ferromagnetic and aluminum/copper pans depended largely on comparing induction’s flat, more discrete heat ring with gas’s more diffuse, 3-dimensional one. Dodgeball-style debate ensued, with few clear conclusions. But now, for the first time, equally-powered flat heat rings in two different frequencies allow us to directly compare evenness in ferromagnetic and aluminum/copper cookware.

      The simplest and easiest way to assess cookware evenness is the “scorchprint”, which does not require infrared or other advanced thermal imaging equipment. I’ve posted on how to conduct scorchprinting elsewhere, but basically a pan is evenly dusted with flour; heat is applied to the pan bottom. As the flour is toasted, any hotspots visually emerge, giving the viewer a useful general idea of evenness.
       
      I will later post the photos of scorchprints I made of 4 different pans run using the Panasonic KY-MK3500: (1) a Demeyere 28cm Proline 5* clad frypan; (2) a Fissler Original Profi disk-base 28cm frypan; a 6mm aluminum omelet pan; and (4) a 32cm x 3.2mm Dehillerin sauté. To make it a fair race, I heated all the pans at 2400W until they reached 450F, and then backed off the power setting to maintain 450F. I did this in order not to compromise my saute’s tin lining. As you will see, both the clad Demeyere and the disk-based Fissler did print the typical brown doughnut, with a cooler center and periphery. By far the most even was the thick, all-aluminum pan, which actually was even over its entirety—even including the walls. The copper sauté was also quite even, although its larger size and mass really dissipated heat; once 450F was dialed in, no more browning happened, even after 30 minutes.
       
      I conclude that the straightgauge pans were far more effective at shunting heat to their peripheries and walls (and also to some extent into the air) than the clad and disk-based pans. The latter accumulated their heat with most of it staying in the center of the pans. Eventually, even the “doughnut hole” blended into the scorch ring because the walls were not bleeding sufficient heat away from the floor. This was especially pronounced in the Fissler, the high wall and rim areas of which never exceeded 125F. The aluminum pan, in contrast varied less than 30F everywhere on the pan.

      D. Other Considerations

      The Panasonic’s fan noise at the cook’s position was noticeable at 63 dBA, higher than with the VMP’s 57 dBA. These levels are characterized as “normal conversation” and “quiet street”, respectively. Interestingly, I found two other, potentially more important differences. First, the Panasonic’s fan stays on, even after the unit is powered off, whereas the VMP’s fan shuts off immediately when the hob is turned off. Second, the Panasonic’s fan steps down from the louder speed to a much quieter (47 dBA, characterized as “quiet home”) level until the Ceran is cool to sustained touch, at which point it shuts off completely. I think the Panasonic’s ability to continue to vent and cool itself is a great feature, especially since a cook could leave a large, full, hot pan on the glass.

      The glowing circle is useless for gauging heat setting or intensity. And while it works to indicate a hot surface, it remains lit long after you can hold your hand in place dead center.
       
      VI. Summary and Lessons
       
      The Panasonic KY-MK3500 is a solid unit, well-conceived and rugged. It is extremely easy to use. It works well with both the common 24kHz frequency used with ferromagnetic cookware, and the 90kHz frequency chosen here for copper and aluminum. It effectively and automatically switches between the two.

      In my opinion, it points the way to expanding the worldwide induction appliance market to include dual frequencies. It also obviates the need to: (a) junk otherwise excellent cookware merely to have induction; and (b) retrofit designs to bond on ferromagnetic outer layers. In fact, in my opinion, my tests indicate that, in a dual-frequency world, adding ferromagnetic bottoms may well be a drag on pans’ performance.
       
      I also consider the Panasonic Met-All to be ground-breaking in what it can tell us about *pans*, because all metallic pans are now commensurable on induction. Clearly (to me anyway), watt-for-watt, the copper and aluminum pans performed better than did the clad and disk-based pans on this unit. Boil times were faster, there was less propensity to scorch, and the conductive-sidewall pans definitely added more heat to the pans’ contents. We may ultimately find that 90kHz fields save energy compared to 24kHz fields, much as copper and aluminum require less heat on gas and electric coil.
      In terms of heat transfer, the copper and aluminum pans came close to emulating the same pans on gas. And at 2400W/3500W it has the power of a full size appliance in a relatively small tabletop package.
       
      The Panasonic is far from perfect, however. It can’t really be considered portable. There are far too few temperature settings, and what few it has are not accurate or consistent in terms of judging pan contents and attaining the same temperature in different pans (and even the same pan unless clean). The luminous ring could easily have been made a useful indicator of intensity, but wasn’t. And it lacks things that should be obvious, including a through-the-glass “button” contact thermocouple, more power granularity, an analog-style control knob, and capacity to accept an external thermocouple probe for PID control.
       
      Most importantly for me, the Panasonic KY-MK3500 portends more good things to come. Retail price remains $1,700-$2,400, but I jumped on it at $611, and I’ve seen it elsewhere for as low as $1,200.
       
      The manual can be found here: ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/commercialfoo...
       
      Photo Credit:  Panasonic Corporation

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