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Question about a Wybauw ingredient/term


Sweet Impact Mama
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Pistachio paste (and connected loosely, gianduja)

Been studying through the giant book that is "Fine Chocolates Gold". It alternates between taking up a third of our dining room table and being a massive paper weight. 🤣 I'm trying to put together a plan for our fall/winter flavors and really want to work in more nuts and gianduja flavors. One of my customers wants more pistachio and another wants more hazelnut. 

First question: on Page 280, he has a recipe for "Pistachio Gianduja", which I thought meant making just straight gianduja with pistachios. But he puts in 4x the almonds as pistachios and then has you put in Pistachio Paste. What the what??? I thought that gianduja was what happens when you take nuts (turned into nut butter, essentially) and then added a certain percentage of chocolate to it (depending on the consistency you want). Then I researched pistachio paste. Does he mean the stuff from Italy or Turkey that has added milks and sugars or something else? Since he's a European chef, I'm assuming the first option... is that correct?

Then... he keeps having the ingredient "gianduja" in recipes, but doesn't specify which nut they are made from. He does the same with "praline" as an ingredient. If he says that, is there an assumed nut as the base sort of gianduja? When he says "x" amount of praline as an ingredient, does he mean caramelized sugar that has been blitzed in the food processor, so as to bring it to powder form?

 

Sorry - this sort of turned into a request for a mini class. 😏 

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Ok - can't comment on the source of the pistachio paste - a further dig in the book might give more information (I'd check the glossary).

 

Gianduja would refer to hazelnut gianduja and praline would be the hazelnut paste made with caramelized sugar. 

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From what I've been told when asking people, sometimes you add almond to pistachio products because it's so much cheaper.

 

A nut paste ought to be 100 percen nuts, and nothing else.

 

Paste = 100% nuts. I've never seen anything with milk in it so far. But I'm a novice. :) 

Praliné = 50 percent nuts / 50 percent sugar. You can have a higher ratio of nuts if you'd like to. Like 60/40. According to the old school, a praliné can be 1) hazelnut or 2) almond or 3) a mix, if you use other nuts the nut used should be prefixed to praliné, as a pistachio praliné, peanut praliné etc.

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To second the previous comments: Almonds are often added to pistachio paste (the difference in price is notable). There is a thread on pistachio paste where the subject of finding it (unadulterated) is discussed. The Sicilian pistachio paste is considered among the best, but as you can see in that thread, I have found it increasingly difficult to locate in the U.S.--places like L'Epicérie have (last time I checked) stopped carrying it, and when you do find it, it is astronomical in price. I have, however, found Fiddyment Farms in California and really like their paste (and it's reasonably priced). The "good stuff" has no added almonds and no added color (which is often the case because pistachio paste is not the color people expect). I use pistachio gianduja quite often and did a lot of experiments with choosing the best chocolate to mix with the paste; I can go into more detail if you want (it might be in that thread to which I referred above).

 

I too was confused by Wybauw's terms, until I deduced that he was using those terms you mention in the European sense (where hazelnut is the default nut!).

 

 

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Agreed, gianduja is traditionally hazelnut, usually milk chocolate, too.  The Northern Italians started grinding local hazelnuts in with imported cacao, hazelnuts would have been an inexpensive way to add bulk.  Plus, they're delicious.  IIRC, the birthplace of GIanduja is Turin/Torino, or at least I visited some old chocolate chops with tasty gianduja when I was there!

 

But yeah, in common usage, any nut butter mixed with chocolate becomes gianduja.

 

Just make sure to declare all the nuts used in your ingredients or contains statements.

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Thank you all! Hazelnuts - of course! I think I'll need to start buying them in bulk, to see if I can get a better price than my local shops. 

We have a kind of world famous Italian deli in Kenosha, called "Tenutas." It's been here forever and usually, I can find those sorts of European specialties here, but no Pistachio paste was to be found. Did find a Turkish Etsy seller that has an 82% pistachio paste, that only has some beet sugar added. People really use the term "paste" loosely. 

Glad to know I wasn't the only one confused by the unexplained, generic "giandjua", Jim! 😜  Thank you all for clarifying the nature the generic "praline."  

Kerry - I scoured the book, glossary and then just page by page... he just drops this stuff into recipes. Lol!  And he really loves his sorbitol! 😳 

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17 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Just make sure to declare all the nuts used in your ingredients or contains statements.

 

But of course. Our family is full of food allergies, so this was something the Health dept. did not have to teach me about. 😉

 

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You can source pistachio paste and amazing nuts from Bronte via aromasicilia.com - I'm quite sure that shipping will be really expensive, but you have the option. :)

 

I bought a kilo a few months back, most expensive thing I've ever bought except that bag of Tahitian vanilla beans. But that speaks for itself. 😭

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6 minutes ago, Rajala said:

You can source pistachio paste and amazing nuts from Bronte via aromasicilia.com - I'm quite sure that shipping will be really expensive, but you have the option. :)

 

I bought a kilo a few months back, most expensive thing I've ever bought except that bag of Tahitian vanilla beans. But that speaks for itself. 😭

Well, that option's out. They don't seem to ship to North America at all. Sigh. Back to the California company to check on that option. 

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1 hour ago, Sweet Impact Mama said:

Thank you all! Hazelnuts - of course! I think I'll need to start buying them in bulk, to see if I can get a better price than my local shops. 

We have a kind of world famous Italian deli in Kenosha, called "Tenutas." It's been here forever and usually, I can find those sorts of European specialties here, but no Pistachio paste was to be found. Did find a Turkish Etsy seller that has an 82% pistachio paste, that only has some beet sugar added. People really use the term "paste" loosely. 

Glad to know I wasn't the only one confused by the unexplained, generic "giandjua", Jim! 😜  Thank you all for clarifying the nature the generic "praline."  

Kerry - I scoured the book, glossary and then just page by page... he just drops this stuff into recipes. Lol!  And he really loves his sorbitol! 😳 

He does indeed!

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

To second the previous comments: Almonds are often added to pistachio paste (the difference in price is notable). There is a thread on pistachio paste where the subject of finding it (unadulterated) is discussed. The Sicilian pistachio paste is considered among the best, but as you can see in that thread, I have found it increasingly difficult to locate in the U.S.--places like L'Epicérie have (last time I checked) stopped carrying it, and when you do find it, it is astronomical in price. I have, however, found Fiddyment Farms in California and really like their paste (and it's reasonably priced). The "good stuff" has no added almonds and no added color (which is often the case because pistachio paste is not the color people expect). I use pistachio gianduja quite often and did a lot of experiments with choosing the best chocolate to mix with the paste; I can go into more detail if you want (it might be in that thread to which I referred above).

 

I too was confused by Wybauw's terms, until I deduced that he was using those terms you mention in the European sense (where hazelnut is the default nut!).

 

 

I’m impressed with the Fiddyment Farm special press I think it’s called. We had some to try at the eG workshop.

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Here in Europe we use some words with different meanings from what you use in the USA.

"Praline" is referred to what you call "chocolate bonbon", that's the main use. If you say "praline" then a European will instantly think about a chocolate confection filled with a ganache. I must admit I was really puzzled the first time I opened an American book where filled chocolates were called "bonbons" and the term "praline" was used for the New Orleans confections.

"Praliné" (please notice the accent on the last letter, similar word but different pronounce) is referred to the ground mixture of 50% hazelnuts and 50% caramelized sugar. If you talk about "praliné" without specifying then it's always hazelnuts. Almond praliné is used on a minority of cases, the tradition here is hazelnuts and hazelnuts. In recent years there appeared also pecan praliné and pistachio praliné, quite rare to see something on sale with these.

"Gianduja", as @pastrygirl wrote, was first created in Turin in 1806, just to face a cocoa shortage caused by Napoleon. Up to around 1950 Turin was the chocolate capital of Italy, there were dozens of bean to bar manufacturers. Most of them disappeared after the chocolate industrialization (caused by fellow Piedmontese producers like Ferrero and Caffarel). If you say "gianduja" without specifying then it's with hazelnuts and dark chocolate (not milk chocolate). If it's made with milk chocolate then you need to specify. If it's made with other nuts then you need to specify too (be careful, here in Italy you will be considered an heretic if you define "gianduja" something without hazelnuts).

It's worth to mention Gianduiotto, it originated from gianduja and is probably the first wrapped chocolate bonbon in history.

Here in Italy we have another term (never seen used outside Italy, but it's a staple here): "cremino". It's made with 50% nut paste and 50% tempered chocolate. Percentages can vary. The nut of choice is hazelnut, of course, so if you don't specify than that's what you get, but the term can be used for other nuts too. For type of chocolate the usual choices are milk and white. The most famous confection is "cremino bicolore" (mostly known just as "cremino"), it's made with 3 layers: first layer is cremino made with hazelnuts and milk chocolate; second layer is cremino made with hazelnuts and white chocolate; third layer is cremino made with hazelnuts and milk chocolate. Just 3 visible layers, not enrobed in chocolate. This is the best seller of almost all chocolate shops here in Italy.

 

About pistachios, I always suggest to try to source the Iranian ones at some ethnic store. They are usually better and cheaper than the ones from other countries. A huge amount of what is sold as "Sicilian pistachio" is actually sourced from Iran or Turkey: the productive capacity of Sicily is much smaller than what is demanded and what they label and sell as Sicilian, so a lot of dishonest people (guess who) buy inexpensive pistachio from abroad and re-label it as Sicilian, selling it for much more.

 

 

 

Teo

 

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Teo

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4 hours ago, teonzo said:

Here in Europe we use some words with different meanings from what you use in the USA.

"Praline" is referred to what you call "chocolate bonbon", that's the main use. If you say "praline" then a European will instantly think about a chocolate confection filled with a ganache. I must admit I was really puzzled the first time I opened an American book where filled chocolates were called "bonbons" and the term "praline" was used for the New Orleans confections.

"Praliné" (please notice the accent on the last letter, similar word but different pronounce) is referred to the ground mixture of 50% hazelnuts and 50% caramelized sugar. If you talk about "praliné" without specifying then it's always hazelnuts. Almond praliné is used on a minority of cases, the tradition here is hazelnuts and hazelnuts. In recent years there appeared also pecan praliné and pistachio praliné, quite rare to see something on sale with these.

"Gianduja", as @pastrygirl wrote, was first created in Turin in 1806, just to face a cocoa shortage caused by Napoleon. Up to around 1950 Turin was the chocolate capital of Italy, there were dozens of bean to bar manufacturers. Most of them disappeared after the chocolate industrialization (caused by fellow Piedmontese producers like Ferrero and Caffarel). If you say "gianduja" without specifying then it's with hazelnuts and dark chocolate (not milk chocolate). If it's made with milk chocolate then you need to specify. If it's made with other nuts then you need to specify too (be careful, here in Italy you will be considered an heretic if you define "gianduja" something without hazelnuts).

It's worth to mention Gianduiotto, it originated from gianduja and is probably the first wrapped chocolate bonbon in history.

Here in Italy we have another term (never seen used outside Italy, but it's a staple here): "cremino". It's made with 50% nut paste and 50% tempered chocolate. Percentages can vary. The nut of choice is hazelnut, of course, so if you don't specify than that's what you get, but the term can be used for other nuts too. For type of chocolate the usual choices are milk and white. The most famous confection is "cremino bicolore" (mostly known just as "cremino"), it's made with 3 layers: first layer is cremino made with hazelnuts and milk chocolate; second layer is cremino made with hazelnuts and white chocolate; third layer is cremino made with hazelnuts and milk chocolate. Just 3 visible layers, not enrobed in chocolate. This is the best seller of almost all chocolate shops here in Italy.

 

About pistachios, I always suggest to try to source the Iranian ones at some ethnic store. They are usually better and cheaper than the ones from other countries. A huge amount of what is sold as "Sicilian pistachio" is actually sourced from Iran or Turkey: the productive capacity of Sicily is much smaller than what is demanded and what they label and sell as Sicilian, so a lot of dishonest people (guess who) buy inexpensive pistachio from abroad and re-label it as Sicilian, selling it for much more.

 

 

 

Teo

 

Thank you for such a brilliant explanation of all of that! I learned so much today 😄

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5 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

@Sweet Impact Mama if you're near a Trader Joe's, they tend to have good prices on nuts, here they're usually $6-7/lb for almonds, $7-8 for hazelnuts, $12 for pistachios.  Not bad when you don't want to buy in bulk.

Good to know! Nearest one is 30 minutes, but there's always more reasons to go there and that's a REALLY good deal on nuts.

 

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