Is There A Wine For Every Dish?

[rich]

The question comes from reading various posts spanning several topics. I believe there is a wine that suits every dish from the lowliest hamburger or sandwich, to pizza, to sushi and including the finest, most complex meal created. All you need is a good palate (or are willing to develop one through tasting), some time to search and a willingness to have an open mind.

There are great wines, good wines and "vin du pay" wines. All have a place and all are enjoyable within their own environment. My wife and I drink a bottle of wine a day, no matter what we're are eating. On weekends sometimes two bottles are consumed. I find the classic terroir wines from France to be best with more sophisticated food because of their unique complexity. (Though after 1980, these wines changed and are much less intricate.)

Some varietals that pair with everyday foods are Zinfandel (not white), Cabernet Franc (again, not white) and Mourvedre (this time not pink). Roses from Tavel match well with the most difficult foods such as sushi and smoked fish.

If I had to rank red varietals in their sense of importance it would be:

Cabernet Sauvignon - 10

Pinot Noir - 10

Zinfandel - 9.5

Cabernet Franc - 9.5

Syrah - 9.5

Mourvedre - 9

Gamay - 9

Barbera - 8.5

The rest including Merlot fall in the 5 - 8 range.

Of these, only the first two are capable of making truly great wines. Zin and Franc have the potential if handled by an expert winemaker. Since aging (except for some Italian and less Portugese) isn't as much a factor since 1980, there is less a difference (with respect to aging potential and complexity) in these varietals as time goes by.

As far as white varietals:

Sauvignon Blanc - 10

Chardonnay - 9.5

Pinot Blanc - 9.5

Riesling - 9

Gewurztraminer - 9

Semillon - 8.5 (sorry this was supposed to be Semillon, typing too quick on first post I repeated Pinot Blanc)

Chenin Blanc - 8.5

The rest fall into the 6-8 range.

After 35 years of wine drinking (I began seriously at age 17), I have found chocolate to be the most difficult food to match with wine. The best is either a high-octane Zinfandel from Ridge for bittersweet chocolate or a older Barbera (at least 15 years) from Franciscan for sweeter versions.

Drink wine with everything, you'll be surprised how it mellows a personality and broadens your outlook on life and your fellow man.

Edited January 21, 2003 by rich (log)

[Tonyfinch]

You don't think syrah can make great wine? What about Nebbiolo? From your white list you omitted Viognier-capable of true greatness in Condrieu-and all the really great sweet whites are made from Semillon. I think you need to do some work on your lists and ratings.

[rich]

Tony - great is subjective. I'm sure Syrah can make a truly great wine. I've never tasted any that match up to the greats of Bordeaux and Burgundy, but I'm sure they are out there. I very much enjoy Rhones or certain American Syrahs.

You're correct about the dessert wines from Semillon, they are spectacular. I have never put any white or sparkling in the "great" category for myself, but I fully understand others who do. My personal great category is very limited - (in order of preference) 1961 Petrus, 1971 DRC, 1943 Inglenook Cask Cabernet Sauvignon, 1959 Lafite, 1970 Mouton, 1949 Cheval Blanc and 1964 Richbourg.

Edited January 21, 2003 by rich (log)

[SFJoe]

Well, it certainly saves time ordering all the wines in the world from best to worst if you first sort them by grape.

[Craig Camp]

I am confused

What does this mean? Are we judging Barbera based on California Barbera? What about--oh never mind.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Great list. Zinfandel has a 9.5 and Nebbiolo isn't even on the list. And it lists Barbera at 8.5. How about 1961 and 1978 Giacomo Conterno Barolo Monfortino? Possibly two of the greatest wines ever made. Or how about 1968 Vega Sicilia Unico or 1958 Marquis de Riscal Rioja Gran Riserva, two wines that are so good that they can take your breath away. But they both come from the Tempranillo grape and you don't even have them on your list.

And great is not subjective. Great is a function of quality and quality isn't subjective. But what is subjective is whether people have palates that can can tell quality or not.

Okay here is a test. Name one zinfandel that is as good as 1990 Chave Hermitage. 9.5 my ass.

[rich]

Great list. Zinfandel has a 9.5 and Nebbiolo isn't even on the list. And it lists Barbera at 8.5. How about 1961 and 1978 Giacomo Conterno Barolo Monfortino? Possibly two of the greatest wines ever made. Or how about 1968 Vega Sicilia Unico or 1958 Marquis de Riscal Rioja Gran Riserva, two wines that are so good that they can take your breath away. But they both come from the Tempranillo grape and you don't even have them on your list.

And great is not subjective. Great is a function of quality and quality isn't subjective. But what is subjective is whether people have palates that can can tell quality or not.

Okay here is a test. Name one zinfandel that is as good as 1990 Chave Hermitage. 9.5 my ass.

Steve - this is a list from the wines I've tasted. Since I have never tasted any of those on your list, it would be disingenuous of me to include those.

I have tasted several very good Tempranillos, but never had a great one - that's my loss and the same goes with Nebbiolo.

I'm sure a list you compiled or anyone compiled would be much different. People can only draw from their personal experiences.

[rich]

I am confused

What does this mean? Are we judging Barbera based on California Barbera? What about--oh never mind.

I was just making generalizations not judgements. I fall into the camp of everyone has their own taste. I understand and accept someone totally disagreeing with me based on their likes and dislikes.

And I'll still respect them in the morning.

The thrust of the post was to suggest wine can go with all foods. I was giving examples of what has worked for me in the last three and a half decades.

[Steve Plotnicki]

One would think, that one would post a list like that only if they had a certain type of experience, no?

[rich]

One would think, that one would post a list like that only if they had a certain type of experience, no?

I don't think it's possible to have tasted a majority of the wines in the world. I'm not a professional taster, but I have tasted thousands of wines in my life, but there are probably millions out there when you multiply vintages by vineyards.

People can make judgements based on their experiences, as long as they're open to listen to judgements made by others who have different experiences.

We should get together and I'll bring a bottle of 1978 Ridge Zin (appellation to be determined) and you bring the 1990 Chave Hermitage. My treat for dinner - we'll agree on a place.

[GordonCooks]

Okay here is a test. Name one zinfandel that is as good as 1990 Chave Hermitage. 9.5 my ass.

Turley Hayne or Aida Vineyard ?

Edited January 21, 2003 by GordonCooks (log)

[Steve Plotnicki]

Blech. That's like saying Nestle's Quik is as good as Maison du Chocolat's Poudre de Cocoa.

[GordonCooks]

Blech. That's like saying Nestle's Quik is as good as Maison du Chocolat's Poudre de Cocoa.

You're the best

[Charles Smith]

Okay here is a test. Name one zinfandel that is as good as 1990 Chave Hermitage. 9.5 my ass.

Turley Hayne Vineyard ?

I've tasted both these wines within the same week and the Turley (I'm referring to the '96) is not even close.

There's no complexity, the wine is seriously out of balance, is distracting to drink and goes with nothing- it is a monster wine, but there's no way it will last IMHO.

The Chave is also a monster, but one with balance, some hints of complexity (it was pretty primary when I had it), it's well structured and we'll be able to taste it again in 10,15,20,25,30 years.

The Turley's a freak show, the Chave is a great wine.

(hook line and sinker)

edited to show my ability to take the bait.

Edited January 21, 2003 by Charles Smith (log)

[GordonCooks]

Okay here is a test. Name one zinfandel that is as good as 1990 Chave Hermitage. 9.5 my ass.

Turley Hayne Vineyard ?

I've tasted both these wines within the same week and the Turley (I'm referring to the '96) is not even close.

There's no complexity, the wine is seriously out of balance, is distracting to drink and goes with nothing- it is a monster wine, but there's no way it will last IMHO.

The Chave is also a monster, but one with balance, some hints of complexity (it was pretty primary when I had it), it's well structured and we'll be able to taste it again in 10,15,20,25,30 years.

The Turley's a freak show, the Chave is a great wine.

Simmer down boys, I concur....just wanted to check everyone's reaction time. They only JL Chave I've had the oppurtunity to enjoy was an 82 and it was erect-tifying.

[Stone]

(Just kidding.)

But does anyone disagree with Rich's statement that there is a particular wine for every dish? Is this a question that can't be answered because it just comes down to taste? If you think the answer is no, what dish shouldn't be had with wine?

Edited January 21, 2003 by Dstone001 (log)

[GordonCooks]

(Just kidding.)

But does anyone disagree with Rich's statement that there is a particular wine for every dish?  Is this a question that can't be answered because it just comes down to taste?  If you think the answer is no, what dish shouldn't be had with wine?

Kim-Chee

[Steve Plotnicki]

Dirty sock wine goes with Kimchee.

Of course there is a wine that is perfect for every dish. But the question is, why would you want to drink wine with every dish?

Edited January 22, 2003 by Steve Plotnicki (log)

[Stone]

Is there a beer that is perfect for every drink?

[guajolote]

If you think the answer is no, what dish shouldn't be had with wine?

Any kind of mole

seviche

In general, almost anything with a lot of chiles or acid.

[Charles Smith]

I think the more interesting question is whether or not there's a dish for every wine and if there isn't, well, why does that wine exist?

[Steve Plotnicki]

I think the more interesting question is whether or not there's a dish for every wine and if there isn't, well, why does that wine exist?

I feel the same way about men's suits.

[mikec]

Okay here is a test. Name one zinfandel that is as good as 1990 Chave Hermitage. 9.5 my ass.

Turley Hayne Vineyard ?

I've tasted both these wines within the same week and the Turley (I'm referring to the '96) is not even close.

[Charles Smith]

If you have to ask...

[Stone]

I think the more interesting question is whether or not there's a dish for every wine and if there isn't, well, why does that wine exist?

Or, indeed, does it exist at all and could you hear it if the bottle fell in a forest. As for suit, I agree with Steven the P -- naked eGullet for all.