Aimo e Nadia

[Jaymes]

Steve - Try to go to the restroom in the Milano train station at midnight sometime.

You will discover that THE restroom closed at 11pm, when the "restroom lady" locked it up, packed up all the toilet paper, and went home.

Edited January 23, 2003 by Jaymes (log)

[Tonyfinch]

Steve, if you think that was bad just make sure you never try to book an internal flight in India. You'll head will explode before you get up the hierarchy as far as Senior Booking Clerk.

[La Niña]

Plotnicki, that was hilarious. Truly plotz-worthy.

[Craig Camp]

I agree - funny story and well told.

[Stone]

The comparison of eating in Italy vs. eating in the U.S. is foolish . . . .

Why?

[La Niña]

The comparison of eating in Italy vs. eating in the U.S. is foolish . . . .

Why?

In this context it was foolish. The comparison has nothing to do with the experience of Italian food or Italian competence.

[Stone]

Steve,  if you think that was bad just make sure you never try to book an internal flight in India. You'll head will explode before you get up the hierarchy as far as Senior Booking Clerk.

You might also want to avoid South Asia, Southeast Asia (with the possible exception of Thailand), San Francisco, Denver, Newark and the following so-called air-lines: United, American, Delta, Continental, and US Air (did I forget any?).

[francesco]

Francesca: very, very interesting comments.

Of course you find it interesting. He knows what he's talking about and you don't.

Eh, Stevey, he's a she.

No, HE's not.

FrancescO

[peterpumkino]

Francesca: very, very interesting comments.

Of course you find it interesting. He knows what he's talking about and you don't.

Eh, Stevey, he's a she.

No, HE's not.

FrancescO

I'm sorry if I offended you Francesco. It was Steve that wrote FranciscA.

[AdamLawrence]

Francesca: very, very interesting comments.

Of course you find it interesting. He knows what he's talking about and you don't.

Eh, Stevey, he's a she.

No, HE's not.

FrancescO

I'm sorry if I offended you Francesco. It was Steve that wrote FranciscA.

Peter - No it wasn't. Try rereading the thread. Steve only quoted you; your post was above his. If you make a mistake, it's as well to admit it, rather than trying to put blame on someone else. That just makes you look an idiot.

[peterpumkino]

sp says: Here is something that happened when we were there'....... etc etc etc ad nauseum.

Yes, it's a good story but so what? Having lived in Italy I could tell you a thousand similar stories (one of the funniest being the Post Office in Como not having any stamps - I did say 'when I am in Mcdonalds I expect hamburgers and not stamps but when I'm in the Post Officice I DO expect stamps! Everyone laughed and agreed but couldn't really understand what the fuss was all about - something to do with the 'courtyard mentatility' they have which I've mentioned on other threads).

Being in the travel business I can tell you thousands of similar stories at airports throughout the world (yes, many set in your beloved Paris and many, many in America). So what? I would rather give up the stamps in the Post Office for truly excellent food anytime. Life's a compromise Stevie - don't you know that?

[jaybee]

I missed this thread entirely until 6:30 this morning, and I am sitting here with tears running down my face. Steve, you must Curb Your Enthsiasm.

Hey, how about a TV series called Steve In Italy. It could rival Larry David and AbFab!

Edited January 24, 2003 by jaybee (log)

[Steve Plotnicki]

Life's a compromise Stevie - don't you know that?

Well it all depends on what the compromises are doesn't it? Some compromises are acceptable and others aren't. In general, the ones I have reported on, I do not find acceptable. Too maddening for me. I cannot live in a place where the Post Office doesn't have stamps. It's just too easy to create a system to insure you never run out of them. I need to live in a place like Germany where things work properly. Life is too short to waste that much time getting simple things done. It's hard enough getting the hard things done. But on the good side of the ledger, my friend and I decided that Italy has better salumi etc. then France does.

I have a question for you (or anyone else for that matter.) In Italy when you go into a cafe for a drink, you have to pay first and then give the counterman your little ticket when you order. Why that custom? Is the entire country a bunch of serial latte macchiato thieves? Second question. Why when it is crowded three deep at the counter does the guy who is in the third row back feel that he is entitled to reach over everyone else and yell out his order to the counterman as if nobody else was there?

[peterpumkino]

Life's a compromise Stevie - don't you know that?

Well it all depends on what the compromises are doesn't it? Some compromises are acceptable and others aren't. In general, the ones I have reported on, I do not find acceptable. Too maddening for me. I cannot live in a place where the Post Office doesn't have stamps. It's just too easy to create a system to insure you never run out of them. I need to live in a place like Germany where things work properly. Life is too short to waste that much time getting simple things done. It's hard enough getting the hard things done. But on the good side of the ledger, my friend and I decided that Italy has better salumi etc. then France does.

I have a question for you (or anyone else for that matter.) In Italy when you go into a cafe for a drink, you have to pay first and then give the counterman your little ticket when you order. Why that custom? Is the entire country a bunch of serial latte macchiato thieves? Second question. Why when it is crowded three deep at the counter does the guy who is in the third row back feel that he is entitled to reach over everyone else and yell out his order to the counterman as if nobody else was there?

True, but my love for Italian food and lifestyle supercedes my desire for my life to be devoid of any frustration. Why not live in Switzerland then? The trains run on time (and I'm sure the Post Office have stamps).

And, Stevie-boy, I lived in Munich from 1997-2000 and I couldn't wait for the weekend where I would drive to Italy live a Real Life and get away from a programmed society. I liked the Germans (sort of) but I much prefer the lifestyle of the Italians and by the number of people clamouring to go there I am certainly not alone (oh, I forgot, they are probably just sun-seekers and don't care where they go, right?).

[francesco]

Francesca: very, very interesting comments.

Of course you find it interesting. He knows what he's talking about and you don't.

Eh, Stevey, he's a she.

No, HE's not.

FrancescO

I'm sorry if I offended you Francesco. It was Steve that wrote FranciscA.

Whoever made the mistake, I wasn't offended.

Francesco

[Steve Plotnicki]

But you could live in a place with great food and things actually work. It's called France .

I think one of the most interesting things about Italy is when you are leaving it by car and you cross the border into France or Switzerland. It's like you have travelled through a time warp. And I'm trying to say that in a way where I am not making value judgements about it. But the difference in efficiency and personal comfort is in plain view and it is striking. I understand that there is a charm to it. And I can find it charming as well when I am in the countryside or along the coast in a resort town or fishing village. But Milano should be a modern and efficient city where the buildings are clean/repaired and things work properly. That's the whole point of a city.

[Robert Schonfeld]

But you could live in a place with great food and things actually work. It's called France  .

I think one of the most interesting things about Italy is when you are leaving it by car and you cross the border into France or Switzerland. It's like you have travelled through a time warp. And I'm trying to say that in a way where I am not making value judgements about it. But the difference in efficiency and personal comfort is in plain view and it is striking. I understand that there is a charm to it. And I can find it charming as well when I am in the countryside or along the coast in a resort town or fishing village. But Milano should be a modern and efficient city where the buildings are clean/repaired and things work properly. That's the whole point of a city.

Do they have any good Italian restaurants there?

Leaving aside his penchant for the pointless prod, as well as a somewhat disturbing lack of interest in anything other than Life According to Steve, I must say that one result of these recent threads has been that I understand his point of view much more clearly. I think it was the comments about Venice that brought this into focus for me. I appreciate too that his point of view represents a great many people. You should all live a long time in good health.

Edited January 24, 2003 by Robert Schonfeld (log)

[Steve Plotnicki]

I appreciate too that his point of view represents a great many people.

This is why I have my own ism.

[Paul Bell]

Not certain I want to prolong this but it is Friday afternoon.

But you could live in a place with great food and things actually work. It's called France

What?? The worst flight delay I have had (Thats tempting fate isn't it) was at Charles de Gaulle, when Air France had to fly a plane up from Spain to fly us from Paris back to London because they did not have one in Paris!.

Not forgetting the recent occurence when Strasbourg airport was closed due to deer on the runway.

And of course, the French make the most bloody awful coffee in Europe (a generalisation admittedly, but nonetheless generally true).

The French are as incompenetent as the Italians (who I like) just more miserable with it.

That being said Heathrow is possibly the poxiest airport in Europe with constant flight delays so who are we to complain?

But Milano should be a modern and efficient city where the buildings are clean/repaired and things work properly. That's the whole point of a city.

Been to London recently?

Although I was particularly impressed when we arrived in Rome last year, trundled onto the train to Termini, thought it was rather busy, and it kept getting busier, finally two armed carabineri appear to tell us the train drivers have just decided to go on strike. How do we get into town? On yer own mate! (Still nice ride in a Mercedes, wife was impressed with young chap in sunglasses and expensive suit driving us, a £50 bargain).

Paul

[Steve Plotnicki]

Your post does a good job of differentiating between organized mishaps and unorganized ones. Clearly, flight delays happen everywhere and for numerous reasons. Nothing about your flight delay at CDG is unique to the French, including not having an extra plane around. Are you under the impression that airlines have these $50 to $100 million dollar objects just sitting around? That could be any airline in any place. But going on strike in the middle of the day, without any advance warning, now that is in a different class and begins to approach stupidity. These days walkoffs are organized and management is warned in advance so they can make alternate arrangements. And I spend quite a lot of time in London and I will have you know that things work quite well there.

Edited January 24, 2003 by Steve Plotnicki (log)

[peterpumkino]

But you could live in a place with great food and things actually work. It's called France  .

I think one of the most interesting things about Italy is when you are leaving it by car and you cross the border into France or Switzerland. It's like you have travelled through a time warp.

I assume your comment about France is a joke as nobody can be THAT dim.

Well Stevie-boy, when I lived on Lake Como I was very close to the Swiss Frontier at Chiasso. The frontier is on a small road going through town and you can sit in Chiasso (Switzerland) and have a conversation with somebody in Ponte Chiasso (Italy). It's THAT close and you know something Stevie-boy, the pasta was much better one minute walk away in Ponte Chiasso than in Chiasso. So you're right in a way - you've just got your direction wrong.

[peterpumkino]

But going on strike in the middle of the day, without any advance warning, now that is in a different class and begins to approach stupidity. These days walkoffs are organized and management is warned in advance so they can make alternate arrangements.

Is that right? Ever heard of SNCF?

[Steve Plotnicki]

Yes but the banks are in Chiasso. There are 33 of them there I believe. And I've never been on a train in France that has ever been delayed, other then for weather (the Mistral.) But I've travelled from Zurich to Milano on the train and have waited for them to change the engine from a Swiss one to an Italian one. Mama Mia. I hope those guys don't get paid by the hour. It felt like they went out for lunch in the middle.

[Jaymes]

Being in the travel business...

Well then, perhaps you've heard this old "travel agent" joke... (It was actually told to me years ago by a British travel agent friend of mine - so it's a "European" version.)

When travel agents die, they either go to Travel Agent Heaven, or Travel Agent Hell.

Travel Agent Heaven: The French are the cooks; the Italians are the lovers; the Swiss are the craftsmen; the English are the police; and the Germans run everything.

Travel Agent Hell: The English are the cooks; the Swiss are the lovers; the French are the craftsmen; the Germans are the police; and the Italians run everything.

Edited January 24, 2003 by Jaymes (log)

[peterpumkino]

I've never been on a train in France that has ever been delayed, other then for weather.

But I've travelled from Zurich to Milano on the train and have waited for them to change the engine from a Swiss one to an Italian one. Mama Mia.

You must be the only person that I know that has never had a delay on a train in France. I've had a lot and also a few train strikes where I have been stranded on a Friday night in Paris. I suspect you live in a different World than anyody else.

BTW apart from the superfast trains (TGV, ICE, Eurostar, Cisalpino etc) ALL trains (and I do mean ALL - including German, French, Italian, Swiss etc etc) change locomotives at all borders in central Europe and have done since time immorial. I'm sorry but I thought it was I who knew nothing.