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Aimo e Nadia


Steve Plotnicki

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I haven't read through this entire thread, but has anyone mentioned that Michelin reduced Aimo and Nadia to one star in 2003. Usually I rely much more on Gambero Rosso, but Michelin may be ahead on this one. My meal here about 3 years ago was entirely mediocre. They had some extraordinary values in French wines, including a Leoville Lascases 1986 for under $90.

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You know I read that on a different thread after I got back to the states. But just to show you that Gambero Rosso isn't alone, the 2003 L'Espresso Guide gave Aimo e Nadia a score of 17 which put it in the top dozen highest restaurants in Italy. I hate to keep beating this anti-Italian drum but, for anyone to consider that restaurant anywhere near the top tier of restaurants in Italy is embarassing to the entire Italian restaurant scene.

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I find the Espresso guide useless for just the reasons that you state, they elevate the worst in Italian cooking. However, my experience with Gambero Rosso has been much better, although they clearly missed the boat on Aimo and Nadia.

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At Aimo e Nada I had a plate of linguine topped with white truffle shavings for 75 Euros. I had a similar plate in Firenze at a restaurant called Parione behind the Excelsior for 25 Euros. Not only was Parioni better but the "pile" of shavings was higher.

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At Aimo e Nada I had a plate of linguine topped with white truffle shavings for 75 Euros.  I had a similar plate in Firenze at a restaurant called Parione behind the Excelsior for 25 Euros.  Not only was Parioni better but the "pile" of shavings was higher.

Parione is a nice place and a great deal! Italy is full of places like this.

Steve - may I ask a sensitive question. It is obvious I should respect your experience from your notes.

The question is:

How much of your dislike of Italian cooking today (not in the past) is due to your allergy? To have to avoid the pasta course in Italy must have some sort of effect on your appreciation of Italian food as this is so essential to the progression of tastes and textures.

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My dislike of Italian cooking has nothing to do with my not being able to eat pasta. There are always other minestre to eat like risotto or polenta. It has more to do with the fact that there is no cooking there. When stinco and osso bucco are the heights of culinary technique, that is boring. In fact for a restaurant that is considered among the best in Italy to be featuring stinco as a main dish, it is sort of embarrasing in my book. Italy is a great place to eat lunch. But they should airlift people into neighboring countries for dinner.

We've debated this issue on other threads here. What I can't understand about Italy is with the great natural resources they have there, how is it that they have not managed to create a formal cuisine that goes beyond mere roasting or braising. There is no aspiration there to acheive a higher culinary level. And some people claim its because their base ingredients are so good that they don't need to. But I don't buy it because I see they have people who have tried. To me they just can't figure out how to do it because they are incapable. And I also don't buy this progression of tastes and textures business. The French have a progression of tastes and textures in their tasting menus but they also manage to actually apply cooking technique to each course while doing it.

I'm happy I don't go there very often because the entire country frustrates me. When I was at Malpensa on my way to Lyon, I called someone I know who is half Maltese and half British but grew up in Malta. As I voiced my frustration over the various idiotic things that occured in the mere 24 hours I spent there, she affirmed my opinion by calling Italy a "Mickey Mouse country" with Malta being "Minnie Mouse." In fact there are so many little infuriating things that happen there that we decided that from now on when they occur, we just look at each other and say "tre Stogari" which is our idiomatic phrase for the Three Stooges. That is what we said to each other as the person at our hotel was struggling with telefono Italia trying to get the phone number of a particular wine bar we were looking for (they were unsuccessful.) Or when Alitalia cancelled our flight to Lyon because of fog when we later found out there was no fog in Lyon. To me it isn't that big a stretch from those things to not being able to figure out how to make a more complex broth for fish then "cream of white beans." What else do you expect when Lario, Curlissimo and Moe (pronounced Mo-ay) are in charge of everything? Thank god they aren't in charge of the wine.

Edited by Steve Plotnicki (log)
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A few weeks ago I was at Malpensa airport, outside of Milan, far earlier than I wanted to be, to catch a flight. I headed to the bar to grab a coffee and a croissant as I had left home in to much of a rush to have breakfast. As I dunked a croissant that would embarrass the best places in the United States into my coffee, an overweight and poorly spoken American next to me said to his wife, “gawd, I can’t wait to get back to Dunkin’ Donuts – these rolls suck.”

Steve I hate to say it but your response sparkles with the same sort of intelligence. I asked you what I thought was a reasonable question and you respond with a barrage of racist insults at the people of Italy.

It is great that you are not inhibited by the political correctness of the time, but your racist and bigoted comments towards the people of Italy are unwarranted and inexcusable and totally negate your credibility as critic of their cuisine. Bigots are blind.

As you are obviously filled with hate towards the Italian culture and cuisine perhaps it would be best if you refrained from commenting on either as it is clear that someone as bigoted as you can in no way offer an opinion that is a useful criticism.

Perhaps you should reread the comments of Joe H. to learn what constitutes useful and informative criticism.

I like to participate on boards like this because of spirited debates – both for the intellectual stimulation and the fun of the debate itself. To this point, I have found your participation in these topics great fun and enlightening, but this response of yours goes to far and is in incredibly poor taste. You obviously think this is quite cute and funny, but I assure you it is not.

I was most disappointed to read the type of remarks you made from someone who should have the experience to know better. It is a shame because obviously you have much to offer in these discussions. What a waste to take all the knowledge that you have acquired and waste it. There is much I could have learned from you.

I wonder what the Italians call you. I am sure that it more insulting than "tre Stogari", but as you don’t speak Italian you never realized what they were calling you. I can guess.

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Craig, don't take it that seriously. He just doesn't think you can get great food in Italy, and that affects all his experiences there. Hell, I can't get decent Chinese food in San Francisco, and it causes me to question the sanity of this entire city. It's just that Steve's high standards have resulted in much discontent. And it's really not racist or bigoted. Just the same as if a New Yorker argued that Mid-Westerners were too incompetent to cook decent or stop wearing polyester.

Edited by Stone (log)
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I just saw this and I am trying to understand what is racist and bigoted about what I said? It's a pretty serious charge that I don't take lightly. I might think that Italy is culturally inferior to the rest of the western world, but what about that is racist and bigoted? I haven't said that Italians are genetically inferior, only that their system of doing things is antiquated and is perpetuated by incompetants. If you want to get into a discussion of why I think that is the case we can do that and I think you will see that my opinion is not derived from race at all (is there an Italian race?) But you should think before you make an accusation like that because it has nothing to do with what I said about Italy.

I am not filled with hate towards anyone. Pointing out that people do stupid and idiotic things or are too incompetant to come up with a proper dessert has nothing to do with hate. It has to do with competence. Maybe you are willing to forgive those things (or the lack of) because you like it there but I am not. And I can be critical in the same way of the idiotic things they do in countries I prefer travelling in like France, or even in my own country the U.S. I can give you a list of stupid things we do in this country that will reach all the way to Malpensa Airport but that doesn't make me racist or anti-American. So I request you delete your charge and replace it with something that appropriately describes my feelings about being in Italy. Because it has everything to do with the Italian way of life, and nothing to do with the potential of the people.

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What else do you expect when Lario, Curlissimo and Moe (pronounced Mo-ay) are in charge of everything?

You do not think a statement like this is bigoted? Perhaps I miss your whole point then. I understand from what you wrote that you think all Italians are incompetent idiots - what else do you think the Three Stooges are?

To me they just can't figure out how to do it because they are incapable.

What do you mean by this? Doesn't 'they' in this context mean everyone in Italy is incapable? What do you call this type of blanket statement about 59 million people?

You will forgive me if I take offense and statements like this made about "Lario, Curlissimo and Moe" as these people are my family, friends and neighbors.

I would suggest that you are the one that is incapable of understanding Italian culture. You should admit your own bias to yourself and refrain from such comments which I consider below the obvious education and experience you display so eloquently in many previous posts.

I will be more than happy to delete my post and return to discussing the topics we come here for if you will delete your offensive post.

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No my post stands. At best you can consider it insulting even though I don't think so because I presented it as a parody (Stone seemed to have gotten it) and I can present the same parody about les Tres Stooge (accent grave if I could do it.) If you want your statement to stand, it will have to stand up to the scrutiny of it being an accurate assessment of how I feel which it isn't. But in any event, none of it has anything to do with competence in coming up with an acceptable dessert. Either they can or they can't do it. I have not made any statements about why they can't and your allegation that I am claiming it is genetic is out of line.

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Then it can be our respective legacies. In other words, we can agree to disagree. But you should read through my Piemonte thread which I posted in November. There are posts there from various members describing how things do not work properly in Italy and the frustrations attached with the experience of being there. The cuisine is but one frustration.

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I accept your contention that you are not personally a bigot or racist. I have no reason not to believe you, but I still feel your comments were unnecessary to communicate your point. Perhaps in an attempt to be colorful you went too far. I think you can find better ways to communicate your considerable knowledge and experience.

It is not uncommon for foreigners to have difficulties in foreign countries where they do not understand the system.

If you think you are unhappy eating in Italy you should hear what Italians think about eating in the United States.

Basta.

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Joe H, I just wanted to say that your post earlier on this page was wonderful. Thanks.

Now, more such, please. :wink:

"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

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But you should read through my Piemonte thread which I posted in November. There are posts there from various members describing how things do not work properly in Italy and the frustrations attached with the experience of being there. The cuisine is but one frustration.

Please don't Craig - especially if you have high blood pressure. It's not worth it. And it's boring. And, who cares if the country's a mess, but at least it's a great mess with wonderful food.

(incidentally I loved the comment you made: 'If you think you are unhappy eating in Italy you should hear what Italians think about eating in the United States' - spot on).

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Steve, I don't think what you said, or you, are racist or bigoted but it is your tendency to express yourself in ludicrous generalisations which gets you into trouble.

In this instance you come across like the worst kind of tourist. You know, a few little frustrations and the whole country's full of incompetants. A couple of disappointing meals and guess what-no-one in this country can cook for shit.

I know that's not what you said but that's how its received and it actually hinders rather than aids the discussion about Italy's place in the culinary universe.

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But you should read through my Piemonte thread which I posted in November. There are posts there from various members describing how things do not work properly in Italy and the frustrations attached with the experience of being there. The cuisine is but one frustration.

I always thought that "incompetance" was the accepted joke about Italy and Italians. Kind of the flip-side to all French being foul smelling assholes.

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But you should read through my Piemonte thread which I posted in November. There are posts there from various members describing how things do not work properly in Italy and the frustrations attached with the experience of being there. The cuisine is but one frustration.

I always thought that "incompetence" was the accepted joke about Italy and Italians. Kind of the flip-side to all French being foul smelling assholes.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Oh lord how can I EVER manage to leave this site and get some work done!

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I don't understand why rappers have to hunch over while they stomp around the stage hollering.  It hurts my back to watch them. On the other hand, I've been thinking that perhaps I should start a rap group here at the Old Folks' Home.  Most of us already walk like that.

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Steve, I don't think what you said, or you, are racist or bigoted but it is your tendency to express yourself in ludicrous generalisations which gets you into trouble.

In this instance you come across like the worst kind of tourist. You know, a few little frustrations and the whole country's full of incompetants. A couple of disappointing meals and guess what-no-one in this country can cook for shit.

I know that's not what you said but that's how its received and it actually hinders rather than aids the discussion about Italy's place in the culinary universe.

Better put than I did. Please excuse my outburst of anger.

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If you think you are unhappy eating in Italy you should hear what Italians think about eating in the United States.

Well I would agree with this as most eating in the United States is based on idiotic customs. All you have to do is to be in California at a donut shop and they serve you fresh, right out of the oven donuts. And then you realize they have given you Creamora with your coffee. And when you ask for real milk, they tell you they don't have any.

All countries specialize in doing something stupid. In Italy, it just happens to be their inefficient way of handling simple daily things. Since I'm the kind of guy who has no patience for a telephone system that can't get you the phone numbers you are looking for, it rubs me the wrong way.

Here is something that happened when we were there. We arrived at Malpensa at 3:15 for our 4:30 Alitalia flight to Lyon. When we got to the desk, the women sitting behind it told us that the flight was cancelled due to fog in Lyon. She told us that Alitalia was offering to fly us to Geneva and then bus us to Lyon. She told us we would be in Geneva at 5:10, but could not guarantee what time the bus left for Lyon, only that she had heard it was about a 2 hour ride. I asked her if there was a later flight and she said that Alitalia had an 8:00pm flight but that she wasn't hopeful. That Milan was supposed to get the same fog and she was pretty sure that the later flight would be cancelled. So what to do? We were supposed to be at an 8:00 wine tasting dinner with 12 other people in Lyon. It was then that I noticed that right across the way was the Air France check-in counter and I asked her if AF had any flights to Lyon. She said that they had a 6:00pm flight. I asked her why they couldn't put us on that flight? It was only then that the truth came out and she told us that if we asked her to she would endorse our ticket over to Air France. There she was holding that info in her pocket all the time and she was trying to get us to fly to Geneva and take a bus to Lyon instead. It was at that exact moment in time that my friend and I looked at each other and said "tre stogari."

So we walked across the aisle to Air France and they told us we couldn't check in until 4:00pm. We asked them about fog in Lyon and they seemed to know nothing about it. But we were still concerned that we wouldn't make our dinner if the flight was delayed or cancelled. So we went down to the Avis desk to ask them how long it would take us to drive to Lyon if we rented a car. Here is what they told me. "Let's see, it takes about an hour and a half to drive to Genoa, then about another hour and a half to get to Nice. Then from Nice to Lyon, possibly another 5 or 6 hours. So it will take you 8 or 9 hours." I shook my head and broke the news to them that Milano and Lyon were on about the same latitude and that the way to get there was through one of the passes through the Alps. When I said that, they looked at me like deer in the headlight. Finally one of them looked it up in the computer and they concluded that it would take around 5 hours. Not enough time to make dinner and that's with everything going right.

What to do now? All of a sudden I had a brainstorm. On the way downstairs to the car rental location, I noticed there was a business center in the airport with Internet access. So we went in there and I logged on to the St. Exupery Airport site (the airport in Lyon) and called the hotline number on my cell phone. I got an English speaking operator on the line and asked her about the fog. "What fog?" she replied. Isn't the airport closed for fog I asked? "Not at all" she said. "It hasn't been closed once today and we are expecting these conditions through the evening." I told her thanks, hung up the phone, told my friend the story and we looked at each other and said.......

As an aside to all of this. And what I thought was the funniest thing in all of Italy, was the escalator from the lower level of the terminal to the Departures floor. Malpensa airport unlike other airports which exist on two levels, arrivals on the first floor and departures on the second floor (the French seemed to have flip-flopped this configuration in Terminal 1 at DeGaule for no other reason then to create those surreal escalators that crisscross between floors, aesthetically pleasing but the height of silliness,) has a basement level where the rental car offices and the trains are. But for some reason, in this country where the buildings seem like they haven't been cleaned since Mussolini and where many of them look like they are about to fall down, they decided to build an escalator that spans from the basement to the second floor without stopping. The thing must be well in excess of 100 feet long! When you get on it, it feels like you are taking an escalator straight up into the clouds. We got on it and we started laughing almost immediately and after the first 20 feet or so I started to hum Stairway to Heaven.

Or maybe we can describe the new rules for going to see The Last Supper which we did on Friday morning. I had seen it twice before but my friend had never seen it. But I had not been since it was reconditioned and the institute in Venice was in charge of admission. They have installed the craziest system for getting into see it. First of all you have to make an appointment. And if you are more then a few minutes late, basta, you're done for. Make a new one. Then when you get in, to hire a audio tour you have to leave your credit card. That's a new one for me. Are there loads of thieves out there who are dying to steal the Last Supper audio guide? Then they have installed a very fancy series of electronic doors that limit your access to entering the church. You go though a door and find yourself in a little anteroom. Then the door closes behind you and you are locked into the space. It is only after a minute or two that the front door opens and you enter a new space where the door locks behind you. It's like entering Fort Knox for godsakes. What are they worried about, somebody is going to steal the painting? It's painted on the f***king wall for god's sake. Do they think someone is going to chisel the wall?

So excuse me for my little rant about Italy. But it's a truly maddening place in many ways. Maybe they are all happy living their lives in a way that when they miss their train, they shrug their shoulders and say we'll just get the next one. That just won't work for me.

Tony - Okay maybe I was a bit harsh. I will begrudgingly admit that that there are a few good cooks there. They surely know how to make a good pizza and they can do a hell of a good job grilling up some scampone.

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