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Tough Cookies


Jim D.

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In  a thread on inclusion of cookies in bonbons I wrote about the difficulties of keeping cookies from spreading as they bake and thus not fitting in the mold. I am using Ina Garten's recipe for shortbread cookies (ingredients are butter, sugar, vanilla, and flour). I cut them with a small biscuit cutter, chilled them, then baked, but still they spread enough to make inserting them in the mold difficult. Last time I used a suggestion from @Bentley to roll them into a thin sheet, let them bake until they were beginning to set, then cut them and returned them to the oven for a final bake. This idea took some experimenting with finding the right "set" point, but it worked really well. I could just drop the cookies into the molds, and all of them fit. Two weeks later the cookies were still very crisp (they were surrounded by a hazelnut meltaway filling, so no moisture got to them---but you never know what might be happening inside that chocolate shell!). But some of them were what I can only call tough. I am wondering why that might have happened. They were not overbaked; they were just beginning to brown. The tough ones were not thicker than the others. What could there be about removing them from the oven early, cutting them, then returning them for more baking that makes them different? Alternatively I wondered if cutting them before baking (as I did previously) and freezing them would work for holding the shape.

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In general I freeze my shortbread before baking, not just chill. And when I've done this in the past I've cut my shapes, baked, and as soon as they're done recut them. The reason that works is that the spread that you're dealing with is thinner and therefore more delicate than the rest of the cookies, so if you cut it right out of the oven (done, not early) then you're just cleaning up the edges. Since this is a bonbon insert I can't imagine that these would be so thick to give you troubles with this method, and you will certainly lose X% to cracks.  I haven't looked ahead, is this something I'm going to be doing in practice not in theory in an upcoming homework assignment for Andrey's workshop?

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1 hour ago, gfron1 said:

In general I freeze my shortbread before baking, not just chill. And when I've done this in the past I've cut my shapes, baked, and as soon as they're done recut them. The reason that works is that the spread that you're dealing with is thinner and therefore more delicate than the rest of the cookies, so if you cut it right out of the oven (done, not early) then you're just cleaning up the edges. Since this is a bonbon insert I can't imagine that these would be so thick to give you troubles with this method, and you will certainly lose X% to cracks.  I haven't looked ahead, is this something I'm going to be doing in practice not in theory in an upcoming homework assignment for Andrey's workshop?

Thanks for those ideas. I'll try the freezing method, then recut. In my first attempt at this, when I saw the spread cookies would no longer fit, in a panic (the hazelnut mixture was crystallizing fast) I recut, but (of course) many of them broke.

 

I don't think Andrey uses cookies, at least in the course. People love the cookie--that got the most comments out of 9 fillings at a reception a few days ago.

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51 minutes ago, Rajala said:

I made an apple bonbon (recipe by Coppel) once with a little cookie in it, and people loved that as well. Need to try it a bit more. :)

 

https://proddbase-api.barry-callebaut.com/v2/downloads/bcproductdb_b/ApplePieBouchee_enoc.pdf - Recipe if anyone's interested. 

That's a very interesting recipe. Do you recall how pronounced the apple flavor was? Apple is a subtle flavor to deal with, and I would think that would be especially true when mixed with dark and milk chocolate. Of course the added Sosa flavoring probably helps.

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I recall the apple flavor being pretty strong, probably because of the extra flavoring - yes. There's a small family owned business in my city, that make these flavor enhancements (not Sosa :D ), and I sometimes use them combined with the real fruit or berry.

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@Jim D. if your "shortbread" is too tough, you need a "shorter" recipe. You need to change your ingredients a bit. I use the recipe below to make mini shortbread cookies for a coffee shop, which are crisp, but melt in the mouth. Give it a go but roll out the dough then cut small circles a bit smaller than what you need. If you are baking small cookies, cut the time in the oven. I bake mine at 150°C for 10 minutes in a commercial convection oven.

 

Ingredients:
1 cup (160g) cornstarch
¾ cup (170g) salted butter, cut into cubes
⅔ cup (100g) cake (AP) flour
⅓ cup (50g) icing sugar (confectioners sugar)

 

Method:

  • Bring the butter to room temperature in a bowl. Whisk to cream, with a handhelds electric whisk.
  • When creamed, sieve in the icing sugar and combine completely with the butter until it all forms a creamy mass.
  • Sieve in the flour and cornstarch and mix again. At first it will be very powdery, but after a time will form a solid clump. Stop the mixer and gather together, forming a long rolled sausage on a counter, about 30mm thick. Do not use any flour to prevent it from sticking - it will not stick to begin with!
  • Cut the sausage into even 10 to 15mm disks and then roll each disk onto a ball. Press a bit flat and place on a lined baking sheet. Press down lightly on the dough with the tines of a fork to mark the cookies.
  • Place in a preheated 160°C (325°F) oven and bake for 15 minutes. Remove from the oven and cool on a cooling rack. Do not try and sample one until they have fully cooled!

John

 

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1 hour ago, JohnT said:

@Jim D. if your "shortbread" is too tough, you need a "shorter" recipe. You need to change your ingredients a bit. I use the recipe below to make mini shortbread cookies for a coffee shop, which are crisp, but melt in the mouth. Give it a go but roll out the dough then cut small circles a bit smaller than what you need. If you are baking small cookies, cut the time in the oven. I bake mine at 150°C for 10 minutes in a commercial convection oven.

 

Ingredients:
1 cup (160g) cornstarch
¾ cup (170g) salted butter, cut into cubes
⅔ cup (100g) cake (AP) flour
⅓ cup (50g) icing sugar (confectioners sugar)

 

Method:

  • Bring the butter to room temperature in a bowl. Whisk to cream, with a handhelds electric whisk.
  • When creamed, sieve in the icing sugar and combine completely with the butter until it all forms a creamy mass.
  • Sieve in the flour and cornstarch and mix again. At first it will be very powdery, but after a time will form a solid clump. Stop the mixer and gather together, forming a long rolled sausage on a counter, about 30mm thick. Do not use any flour to prevent it from sticking - it will not stick to begin with!
  • Cut the sausage into even 10 to 15mm disks and then roll each disk onto a ball. Press a bit flat and place on a lined baking sheet. Press down lightly on the dough with the tines of a fork to mark the cookies.
  • Place in a preheated 160°C (325°F) oven and bake for 15 minutes. Remove from the oven and cool on a cooling rack. Do not try and sample one until they have fully cooled!

John

 

Thanks for that recipe. Do you think this makes a more tender cookie (because of the cornstarch and confectioner's sugar)?  I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "cake (AP) flour." As you probably know, in the U.S. "cake flour" is very finely milled, low-protein flour, different from all-purpose flour. U.S. cake flour would probably add to the tenderness of the cookie.

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19 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

Thanks for that recipe. Do you think this makes a more tender cookie (because of the cornstarch and confectioner's sugar)?  I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "cake (AP) flour." As you probably know, in the U.S. "cake flour" is very finely milled, low-protein flour, different from all-purpose flour. U.S. cake flour would probably add to the tenderness of the cookie.

 

Yes, it makes a very tender cookie, but still a crisp one - it really melts in your mouth!

 

In South Africa we have only two types of white flour - cake flour, which is equivalent to your AP flour and bread flour. All desserts, cakes and cookies (we call them biscuits) are made with cake flour = AP flour in the US. You do need a little gluten to hold the cookie together. Hope that clears up any confusion. When baking them, they must stay light in colour and not get brown.

Cape Town - At the foot of a flat topped mountain with a tablecloth covering it.

Some time ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die.

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Jim - this might be a silly idea, but instead of cutting the cookies when warm, could you bake them in a silicone mold that was the size of your bonbon?  So if your bonbon was square, then maybe you could use something like this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/X-Haibei-Square-Chocolate-Silicone-Supplies/dp/B06VV32WZ1/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1528441125&sr=8-3&keywords=small+silicone+molds+for+candy&dpID=51HFDjZ84eL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

 

I’m not sure how easy it would be to portion out the dough into these squares though, so it might actually be more troublesome than your current method. 9_9

 

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5 hours ago, pastryani said:

Jim - this might be a silly idea, but instead of cutting the cookies when warm, could you bake them in a silicone mold that was the size of your bonbon?  So if your bonbon was square, then maybe you could use something like this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/X-Haibei-Square-Chocolate-Silicone-Supplies/dp/B06VV32WZ1/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1528441125&sr=8-3&keywords=small+silicone+molds+for+candy&dpID=51HFDjZ84eL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

 

I’m not sure how easy it would be to portion out the dough into these squares though, so it might actually be more troublesome than your current method. 9_9

 

 

Anita, that is an intriguing idea. The mold you pointed out makes a 0.6" square, whereas my current biscuit cutter (it is the smallest I could locate) produces a 0.75" circle, and a cookie made from the mold would not have the spreading issue. But, as you wrote, getting the rolled-out dough into the mold and keeping it thin is an issue. I wish I had a square chocolate mold that would work, but the whole filling (layer of caramel + enough gianduja to cover the caramel thoroughly + the cookie + more gianduja) requires a deep cavity. For reasons that escape me, there is no chocolate mold (that I have seen) that makes a large square or even a rectangle.

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2 hours ago, Rajala said:

What about this one? :D

 

https://pavonitalia.com/professional/en/pc21-praline-moulds-innovation-pc21-99482.html

 

Pretty tall, should be able to fill in.

 

I really like that mold--had not seen it before.  18mm x 18mm is small, but a cookie could be baked that small, as long as it did not spread at all (squares are unforgiving). The height should also work.

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On June 8, 2018 at 5:19 AM, Jim D. said:

 

Anita, that is an intriguing idea. The mold you pointed out makes a 0.6" square, whereas my current biscuit cutter (it is the smallest I could locate) 

 

Jim - if you're looking for a smaller round cutter, it looks like there's a 1/2" metal one available:

 

https://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id=432&trng=fgle&gclid=CjwKCAjw9e3YBRBcEiwAzjCJuq4O4zynb7L7wA6ksb_eElxsxIcAMQQMA4ECPpRYwnNnK0iunglDpxoCk8EQAvD_BwE

 

 

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33 minutes ago, pastryani said:

 

Jim - if you're looking for a smaller round cutter, it looks like there's a 1/2" metal one available:

 

https://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id=432&trng=fgle&gclid=CjwKCAjw9e3YBRBcEiwAzjCJuq4O4zynb7L7wA6ksb_eElxsxIcAMQQMA4ECPpRYwnNnK0iunglDpxoCk8EQAvD_BwE

 

 

Leave it to you to find this small cutter. I thought I had scoured the entire internet looking--but somehow missed this. Thank you very much. It would allow me to use a less huge mold when including cookies. Or I could use the mold I use now and not have to worry about the cookies spreading out a bit.

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2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

Leave it to you to find this small cutter. I thought I had scoured the entire internet looking--but somehow missed this. Thank you very much. It would allow me to use a less huge mold when including cookies. Or I could use the mold I use now and not have to worry about the cookies spreading out a bit.

 

 

Lol my pleasure. 9_9  Missed you at the workshop this year.

 

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