Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

Raamo

Baking with Myhrvold's "Modernist Bread: The Art and Science"

Recommended Posts

I can see that I'm going to have to get my other tasks for the week out of the way quickly, so I can read up on vacuum-treating dough myself!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Raamo said:

So many things in these books require levain.... so I started one - it's cold her so we'll see how well it works, on top of the fridge.

 

I'm going to make some more french lean bread for now while I wait for the wild yeast to do it's thing.  I manged to find a number of items on amazon, seems Modernist Pantry needs to get a copy of this book - they had only one thing.

 

 

I, too, broke up a vow to myself that I would never, ever again attempt to make a levain. I started it last Thursday.Until this morning I was exceedingly proud of it. I fear it has now gone the way of all my previous attempts.  Instead of being active and bubbly and delicious looking as it has most mornings today it had a layer of liquid on top and looked cold and dead. I mixed it up, poured off 75% and fed it. I am thinking of dropping into to my local church on my way to an appointment and lighting a few candles. 

 

 I was very pleased to see that Modernist Bread would have no truck with weird and wonderful additions to a levain but called for only water and flour. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Anna N said:

I, too, broke up a vow to myself that I would never, ever again attempt to make a levain. I started it last Thursday.Until this morning I was exceedingly proud of it. I fear it has now gone the way of all my previous attempts.  Instead of being active and bubbly and delicious looking as it has most mornings today it had a layer of liquid on top and looked cold and dead. I mixed it up, poured off 75% and fed it. I am thinking of dropping into to my local church on my way to an appointment and lighting a few candles. 

 

 I was very pleased to see that Modernist Bread would have no truck with weird and wonderful additions to a levain but called for only water and flour. 

 

I'm 12 hours into my first one - there is a layer of what must be alcohol on mine (yellow liquid) - which means there must be yeast present and feeding.  I wasn't expecting anything for over 24 hours so the liquid layer is surprising.

 

Hard to believe T-Day is next week - I have my eyes on the country bread as one of the things I'll make - which requires a Levain...  So I hope this works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Raamo said:

 

I'm 12 hours into my first one - there is a layer of what must be alcohol on mine (yellow liquid) - which means there must be yeast present and feeding.  I wasn't expecting anything for over 24 hours so the liquid layer is surprising.

 

Hard to believe T-Day is next week - I have my eyes on the country bread as one of the things I'll make - which requires a Levain...  So I hope this works.

In the event that your levain lets you down, there is a direct method for that bread which is the one I used and got two lovely loaves. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Opps I did it again.... well not quite.

 

Since I'm waiting for my ingredients and my levain to grow up enough to be harvested...  I decided to make the french lean loaf again, though I am doing two things differently.

 

I didn't use any additional flour to shape the bread - instead making sure it's was coated in veg oil.

 

I also am using .45kg piece today, .4-.45 tomorrow, and on the 3rd day I plan to combine what is left with what I have to "discard" from my levain, possibly adding in a very small mount of additional yeast.

 

Not sure how the 3rd loaf will turn out - but this one looks great.  We'll be slicing into it in about 4 hours for dinner (needs time to cool)
 

20171113_130520.thumb.jpg.3f2e6f52cb795e24318f8fd2bae6aad4.jpg

The oven spring on this loaf was quite nice to behold.

 

And the bread was great - once we cut into it it was gone within 90 mins. 


Edited by Raamo this loaf is gone. (log)
  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How are you supposed to read the books if you don't open the box? ha!

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rotuts said:

@Eric Srikandan 

 

however :

 

gl.jpg.f5a9bfd190f7c9f89057d848b1e2e60e.jpg

 

best of luck to you !

 

suprise.gif.f9e123f9e99c148ee81b28593ee33184.gif

 

This is the box sent to Amazon directly - that's for them, not for the end user :)  Darn confusing box.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Raamo said:

 

This is the box sent to Amazon directly - that's for them, not for the end user :)  Darn confusing box.

 Perhaps someone remembers the kerfuffle when Modernist Cuisine was released and employees at Amazon were unpacking the boxes and people were receiving incomplete sets.  Guessing they are trying to avoid that problem this time. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bizarrely having waited over a year for these, I feel funny to open the box. Might wait till Friday when I have the day off so I can really savour the experience.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Second-Chance Sourdough (p. 4•70)

I've been maintaining a liquid levain for a few weeks now, but this weekend I was out of town for three days. Rather than try to find a levain-sitter I used the refrigerator technique, putting it into the fridge right after its last feeding and then taking it out and feeding it again as soon as I got home. So while not strictly-speaking "inactive", the levain I had for this recipe was definitely in the "hangry" category. 

 

The recipe is really just a basic direct-method lean bread with inactive levain added for flavor (scaled at 40%). The dough is relatively high hydration, so is quite sticky until the second four-edge fold, pretty much the same as the French Lean recipe. I mixed by hand, and bulk fermented at room temperature for four hours. Shaped small boules and proofed for almost two more hours and got this:

 

DSC_6170.jpg

 

Apparently the levain still had some energy, because the rise was very high, with a very open crumb (it's hard to tell scale from the photo, but for a "small" boule that thing is pretty big). While the crust and crumb texture was similar to a sourdough, I didn't get a whole lot of sourdough flavor out of this loaf. Presumably a lot of that depends on the exact state of your inactive levain, but apparently mine wasn't all that acidic. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

I've been maintaining a liquid levain for a few weeks now, but this weekend I was out of town for three days. Rather than try to find a levain-sitter I used the refrigerator technique, putting it into the fridge right after its last feeding and then taking it out and feeding it again as soon as I got home. So while not strictly-speaking "inactive", the levain I had for this recipe was definitely in the "hangry" category. 

 

So Chris are you the expert levain person now?  Did you often get a layer of hooch in your levain?

 

I'm 36 hours into my levain and I've had pooch since 12 hours - I've been stiring and shaking it to reincorporate it.  I'm not seeing any bubbles yet, but something is causing the hooch.

 

Also  - Is this correct use?  When I take 3/4 off the levain to feed it - this 3/4 discard I'm supposed to use to bake bread.  But it's not going to be at mature level - so do I feed the 3/4 separately and use it 12-16 hours later?  If this is all clear in the book I'm missing it - I've read everything I could find in multiple volumes - but it's not hard to miss.


Edited by Raamo hooch not pooch (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Raamo said:

So Chris are you the expert levain person now?  Did you often get a layer of pooch in your levain?

Pooch?   Sorry I just can’t help myself I’m laughing so hard. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/14/2017 at 7:25 AM, Raamo said:

So Chris are you the expert levain person now?  Did you often get a layer of hooch in your levain?

 

"Expert" is almost certainly too strong a word here! But in a word, no. I had a liquid layer very early on (days 2-4, maybe?) but now it's just a relatively uniform bubbly mass. And I took the hands-off approach when I started it, I literally just mixed it up and let it sit for 48 hours untouched. Now I'm feeding it at 40g/80g/80g. I find the book's discussion of this quite confusing, since they really give two completely different feeding schemes and I can't tell if that's intentional or not. There's the "discard 75% and replace it with equal parts flour and water" line (which works out to 67%/100%/100%), and there's the bakers percentage table which is 25%/100%/100%. The chapter says the starter isn't that sensitive to this, and that does seem to be the case so far, but I don't understand the huge variation here.

 

On 11/14/2017 at 7:25 AM, Raamo said:

Also  - Is this correct use?  When I take 3/4 off the levain to feed it - this 3/4 discard I'm supposed to use to bake bread.  But it's not going to be at mature level - so do I feed the 3/4 separately and use it 12-16 hours later?

Yes. Or at least, that's what I do. When it's feeding time on Fridays I don't discard the 75% portion, I just split it off and feed it as well (or as much of it as I need to create the levain for Saturday's baking).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Anna N said:

@Chris Hennes

 

What baking method did you use? Combi-cooker? Steam oven? Or?

Thanks. 

 

A pretty normal home oven with a baking stone and a lid (a.k.a. a big hotel pan).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

 

"Expert" is almost certainly too strong a word here! But in a word, no. I had a liquid layer very early on (days 2-4, maybe?) but now it's just a relatively uniform bubbly mass. And I took the hands-off approach when I started it, I literally just mixed it up and let it sit for 48 hours untouched. Now I'm feeding it at 40g/80g/80g. I find the book's discussion of this quite confusing, since they really give two completely different feeding schemes and I can't tell if that's intentional or not. There's the "discard 75% and replace it with equal parts flour and water" line (which works out to 67%/100%/100%), which is what I'm doing, and there's the bakers percentage table which is 25%/100%/100%. The chapter says the starter isn't that sensitive to this, and that does seem to be the case so far, but I don't understand the huge variation here.

 

Thanks - I suppose that's why they call it a science experiment - it'll vary by person / environment.  I had liquid after  < 12 hours.  I'll stick with this - first attempt is only a little over a cup - so if I have to toss it all out it's not that bad.  

 

The web is FULL of conflicting information - I figure MB at least tested their approach enough when they made tens of thousands of loafs...  Since they really don't have any debugging information like some other sites do.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Raamo said:

The web is FULL of conflicting information - I figure MB at least tested their approach enough when they made tens of thousands of loafs...  Since they really don't have any debugging information like some other sites do.

Right. I just pressed forward with mine, baked whatever came out of the couche after the final proof (I did mine at 39°F for 24 hours), and... voila! it worked. That said, I didn't have enough faith to actually bake after only five days, I let mine achieve full maturity before trying to make any bread with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well loaf 2 worked great - 1/3 of it is gone.  Tomorrow will be the interesting loaf...

 

My new pet is happy!  There are bubbles of joy, in a few more hours the first feeding will occur.  The discard from that is going into tomorrows bread.

 

co2bubbles.thumb.jpg.8dba6c368175252043597aac49fecf48.jpg

Bubbles of joy!

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

do they mention an ideal temp

 

or a temp rage for the levain ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, rotuts said:

do they mention an ideal temp

 

or a temp rage for the levain ?

 

Yes - goal is around 70F.  Temp of water you use depends upon if it's hot or cold.

 

Oh and be prepared for a big stink when you go for the first feeding.  Most of the sites don't talk about that - but you can find at least one that talks about the smells of keeping a yeast pet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rotuts said:

or a temp rage for the levain ?

They (of course) suggest a couple possibilities, but their favorite is 55°F on a 24-hour feeding schedule. I'm growing mine on the kitchen counter and it's plenty happy at the roughly 70°F that entails.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rotuts said:

Ive done a sourdough starter for years.

 

 

 

Do you still have it?  Why not just use that?  And it seems 55F is popular because they have a wine cellar :)  Already temp controlled.

 

Others seem to like keeping it in the fridge - all depends upon how much bread you make.  


Edited by Raamo (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Mullinix18
      I have seen referenced in several places on the internet, including Wikipedia, a stat about escoffier recommending 40 minutes for scrambled eggs in a Bain Marie. I cant find where this number is from. On Wikipedia it refers to the book I currently own, the "Escoffier le guide culinaire" with forward by Heston Blumenthal by h. L. Cracknell...specificly page 157 for the 40 minute cooking time of scrambled eggs but it's not in my book on that page! Even tho there is the recipe for scrambled eggs on that page... I've seen the 1903 first edition online.. And it's not in there either.... Where is this number from?? Id like to know in case there is some even more complete book or something out there that I'm missing. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you. 
    • By Daily Gullet Staff
      By John Sconzo

      The Daily Gullet is proud to present this, the first in a multi-part, front-row report on the recent "Spain and the World Table" conference. Watch for subsequent installments in this topic.

      In his introduction of Ferran Adria, Thomas Keller -- perhaps the most celebrated American chef ever -- described four elements that go into making a great chef. The chef must be aware. Once aware of one’s culinary and other surroundings that chef can then be inspired, which leads to the ability to interpret those surroundings. But a great chef does not stop there. Instead, the great chef continues to evolve. Ferran Adria, perhaps more than any other chef who has ever lived, is the embodiment of those four elements.

      The moment that Ferran Adria strode towards Thomas Keller on the stage at the CIA/Greystone’s World of Flavors’ “Spain and the World Table” Conference was electric -- as if a giant Van de Graf generator had been turned on. The feeling didn’t subside when Adria took the stage from Keller; it only became more pronounced as the packed crowd rose to its feet, raining applause, admiration and love on the Spanish master. Adria accepted the response with aplomb, and gave it right back to the audience -- and to his fellow Spanish cocineros, who were standing off to the side. He brought each one up to join him on the stage for a rousing thank-you to the conference organizers, sponsors and participants. Once this emotional release subsided, Adria got down to what everyone had been waiting for -- his discussion and demonstration.

      Ferran Adria, with eyes sparkling like the finest cava, began speaking Spanish in a voice as gravelly as the beaches of the Costa Brava, while Conference Chairman Jose Andres translated. The crowd, hushed and straining for every word, moved forward in their seats as Adria explained El Bulli and himself, with a lesson in recent culinary history thrown in. Ferran explained that El Bulli is not a business. While offshoots of El Bulli are operated on a for-profit basis, the restaurant runs without profit as a primary motivation. For example, he said, the greatest difficulty they have is distributing reservations. Given the extraordinary demand and the severely limited supply, he explained that they could simply raise the price of a meal to the point where the supply and demand met. Indeed, the price of a meal at El Bulli is in itself quite reasonable given the stature of the restaurant and well within means of most motivated diners should they be able to get there, and this is how Adria prefers it. He stated that he was not interested in cooking solely for those with the most money. He prefers to work for people with a true interest in exploring the limits of cooking with him. To this end he showed a short film depicting “A Day in the Life . . .” of El Bulli set to the Beatles’ song of the same name. The film showed a couple’s response to the experience.

      Ferran’s voyage into creativity began with a visit to Jacques Maxima at Le Chanticleer Restaurant in Nice, France. He learned from Maxima that to be creative is not to copy. This idea changed his entire approach to cooking -- from making classic cuisine to making his own. Aware of elaborate books of French cuisine, Adria resolved to catalogue his work, the results of which are the richly detailed El Bulli books, published by period. These books, as wonderful as they are, are huge and extremely expensive. During his presentation, Adria announced -- and demonstrated -- that the individual dishes photographed and described in a chronology within each book are all now available online at elbulli.com.

      He finished the philosophical discussion by talking about the general style of haute cuisine that he and others are engaged in. While others have coined the term “molecular gastronomy” to highlight the scientific component of the creativity involved, Adria rejected it, saying that all cooking is molecular: most of his techniques are in fact rather simple and don’t employ radical new technology. Most of the technology that they do use has been around for some time; they have simply adapted it to their own purposes. Nevertheless, he applauds contributions to gastronomy from Harold McGee and other food scientists, and welcomes their collaboration in the kitchen. He has yet to find a term that describes the movement: as of now, he feels that there really is no good name for this style of cooking.

      More than any other single thing, Ferran Adria is known for the use of “foams” in cooking. While he is proud of his achievements with foams, he stressed that while appropriate in some circumstances, the real utility of foams is limited. He bemoans their ubiquity -- and wishes to not be blamed for others’ poor deployment of the concept. In the course of describing this and other techniques, Adria made a point of stating that using them should not be inferred as copying. Techniques and concepts are to be used and shared. He invited everyone to learn and harness whatever they found interesting, and to employ it in to their own pursuits.

      Another set of techniques discussed and demonstrated by the master and his assistant, Rafa Morales from Hacienda Benazuza, included three types of spherification. These included the use of calcium chloride (CaCl) and sodium alginate as well as the converse, and exploration of a new agent, gluconodeltalactone. The original combinations of alginate into CaCl for “caviar” production, and CaCl into alginate for larger “spheres” have chemistry-related limits as to what can be sphericized. In private correspondence, Harold McGee explained to me that Adria described encapsulating a mussel in its own juice. While this would make the dish technically an aspic, unlike conventional aspics it remains a liquid. Adria said that though gluconodeltalactone is very new, and they are just beginning to get a handle on it, he is very excited by it. He also demonstrated a machine for spherification on a larger scale than they had originally been able to do, as well as liquid nitrogen and freeze-drying (lyophilization) techniques. At the conclusion of his demonstration -- and thus the Conference -- the audience once again awarded him a standing ovation.

      While Adria’s appearance was the culmination of the conference, the energy it produced was not just because of his stature in the world of gastronomy -- it was also due to the excitement generated by the conference that preceded it. If there had previously been any doubt, Thomas Keller’s welcome of Adria was a clarion: Spanish cuisine has landed on North American shores and is finding a niche in the North American psyche. Spanish cuisine -- in its multifaceted, delicious entirety -- lives here, too.

      + + + + +

      John M. Sconzo, M.D., aka docsconz, is an anesthesiologist practicing in upstate New York. He grew up in Brooklyn in an Italian-American home, in which food was an important component of family life. It still is. His passions include good food, wine and travel. John's gastronomic interests in upstate northeastern New York involve finding top-notch local producers of ingredients and those who use them well. A dedicated amateur, John has no plans to ditch his current career for one in the food industry. Host, New York.
    • By docsconz
      About Jose Andres
       
      Throughout his career, Jose’s vision and imaginative creations have drawn the praise of the public, the press and his peers. José has received awards and recognition from Food Arts, Bon Appetit, Food & Wine, Saveur, the James Beard Foundation, Wine Spectator, and Wine Advocate. In addition, José has been featured in leading food magazines such as Gourmet as well as the New York Times, the Washington Post, Good Morning America, Fox Sunday Morning News with Chris Wallace, the Food Network, and USA Today.
       
      Widely acknowledged as the premiere Spanish chef cooking in America, José is a developer and Conference Chairman for the upcoming Worlds of Flavor Conference on Spain and the World Table at The Culinary Institute of America at Greystone, November 2 – 5, 2006.
       
      In 1993, Jose moved to Washington, DC, to head the kitchen at Jaleo. From there, Jose took on executive chef responsibilities at neighboring Café Atlantico and later Zaytinya. In July of 2003, Jose embarked on his most adventurous project to date with the opening of the minibar by jose andres at Cafe Atlantico. A six-seat restaurant within a restaurant, minibar by jose andres continues to attract international attention with its innovative tasting menu. In the fall of 2004, Jose opened a third Jaleo and Oyamel, an authentic Mexican small plates restaurant and launched the THINKfoodTANK, an institution devoted to the research and development of ideas about food, all with a view toward their practical applications in the kitchen.
       
      Every week, millions of Spaniards invite Jose into their home where he is the host and producer of “Vamos a cocinar”, a food program on Television Española (TVE), Spanish national television. The program airs in the United States and Latin America on TVE Internacional.
       
      Jose released his first cookbook this year, first published in English, Tapas: A Taste of Spain in America (published in the United States by Clarkson Potter) and shortly after in Spanish, Los fogones de José Andrés (published by Planeta). The book is an homage to Spanish cooking and to tapas, one of Spain's gifts to the world of good cooking.
       
      Jose Andres is passionate, intelligent, dedicated, witty and a fan of FC Barcelona.
       
      Jose has been a member of the eGullet Society since 2004.
       
      More on Jose Andres in the eG Forums:
      Cooking with "Tapas" by Jose Andres
      Vamos a Cocinar - cooking show with Jose Andres
      Jaleo
      José Andrés' Minibar
      Zaytinya
      Oyamel Cocina Mexicana, Crystal City
      Cafe Atlantico
       
      Jose Andres recipes from Tapas in RecipeGullet:
      Potatoes Rioja-Style with Chorizo (Patatas a la Riojana)
      Moorish-Style Chickpea and Spinach Stew
      Squid with Caramelized Onions
    • By DeanTheBaker
      I have no idea why they blurred the name..
      so i really would love to know the name of this cookbook.
      Has anyone seen it?
      (I think it’s in French.)
       
      Thanks!
       

    • By Rene_lorraine
      I'm a pastry cook working in NYC. We have a seasonal bread that we do with chickpeas, garlic (fresh and confit) and pecorino. We drain and rinse the chickpeas and it was working for a while but it hasn't been consistent. Bread turns out flat. What is it in chickpeas that kills the yeast and how can we counteract the effect? I'm taking a long shot by posting but wanted to further educate myself and fellow team members. Thanks so much. 
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×