Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

Raamo

Baking with Myhrvold's "Modernist Bread: The Art and Science"

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

"There are distractions that can tug at you during every step of bread making.  Mistakes can happen anytime to anyone, including the common misstep of mixing up the weight of the flour and the water,* which results in more of a batter than a dough."

 

 

*I have done this.

 

 And I can certainly see that happening. But I’m not buying into it for the two loaves that I found out of balance. I will make them again and if I feel the need to confess I will do so. xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Id like to try that vacuum thing-y.

 

my copy has not arrived

 

I bet the sealing is to lee[ the dough moist

 

do you let it rise in the bag ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, rotuts said:

Id like to try that vacuum thing-y.

 

my copy has not arrived

 

I bet the sealing is to lee[ the dough moist

 

do you let it rise in the bag ?

 You do not let it rise in the bag but you do let it autolyse for 30 minutes.  So I would assume that sealing the bag prevents the dough from drying out for this 30 minutes. Also they note that you can use either a chamber vac or a food saver type machine.  With the latter you must seal to get a vacuum.  They said there was little difference between the two machines in terms of the final product.

 

 So the steps are

 

 Dissolve the yeast in 95% of the water or if using a preferment dissolve that in the water. Combine with the flour. Mix the two together until you reach the shaggy dough stage. 

 

 Put into vacuum bag (or if there’s too much into a lightly oiled tub or bowl that will fit into the chamber vac (or use a food saver container)

 

 Vacuum using the full power of your machine. 

 

Then you autolyse for 30 minutes before removing the dough and continuing with the recipe. 

 

 Hope this helps. 


Edited by Anna N (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My copy arrived yesterday - This is a crazy weekend for me (aka not much reading time) - but wow just wow at the details in this book.

 

We still have a bit of the artisan bread in 5 mins a day dough in the fridge - that'll get baked up to day and then I'm going to likely go a little nuts.  It's nice they have a replacement daily bread :)

I need to order a few things though, I have vital wheat gluten already from the MC noodles.

 

Is there a list of not normally sourced at the local supermarket ingredients most commonly used in this book that one should order to make the modernist versions of different things?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Raamo said:

My copy arrived yesterday - This is a crazy weekend for me (aka not much reading time) - but wow just wow at the details in this book.

 

We still have a bit of the artisan bread in 5 mins a day dough in the fridge - that'll get baked up to day and then I'm going to likely go a little nuts.  It's nice they have a replacement daily bread :)

I need to order a few things though, I have vital wheat gluten already from the MC noodles.

 

Is there a list of not normally sourced at the local supermarket ingredients most commonly used in this book that one should order to make the modernist versions of different things?

There sort of is — meaning  you will likely need to refer to more than one page and probably more than one volume. The thing you need to think about though is that some ingredients are used for only a single bread and if you’re not going to ever make that bread then there’s no point in purchasing whatever additive it is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

3-108 describes the technique of mixing by pulling a vacuum on the dough.  I would like to try it.  The procedure calls for sealing the bag.  But I don't see the point of this.  What is the benefit of sealing the bag?  Is it to keep the dough surface from drying?

 

I ignored the part about sealing the bag. I ran the vacuum cycle five times, then took the dough out of the bag. It was done.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm definitely going to have to try the vacuum mixing method...and see what bowls I own that will fit in my chamber sealer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, MelissaH said:

I'm definitely going to have to try the vacuum mixing method...and see what bowls I own that will fit in my chamber sealer.

Just to be clear the vacuum is used to autolyze the flour and water (and yeast) not to mix the dough. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

It was done.

Done?  I am assuming you mean the autolyse phase was done.  Please correct me if you mean something different. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

do they explain how lowering the pressure considerably for such a relatively short time

 

accomplishes this ?

 

I can understand , in a theoretical way , how a vacuum , when released might speed up pickling 

 

i.e.  the pickling solution then enters the cucumber etc when the pressure returns  ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, rotuts said:

do they explain how lowering the pressure considerably for such a relatively short time

 

accomplishes this ?

 

I can understand , in a theoretical way , how a vacuum , when released might speed up pickling 

 

i.e.  the pickling solution then enters the cucumber etc when the pressure returns  ....

 I wasn’t able to find very much on how it works but I believe you are on the right track. 

There are a number of cautions about using this method which is not necessarily good for all dough types. The book claims it works well for lean, whole wheat  and pizza doughs. 

They also point out that not everyone agrees that an autolyse is a necessary step. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WARNING!  Long and potentially boring post. 

 

431533F0-EE51-47AB-92BC-827929DFA4A0.thumb.jpeg.90bb99d21ef39a438efffd901877db29.jpegBD3B365E-DE42-42B2-8119-BBFD21310F4E.thumb.jpeg.7bd9411c7e465a6041e10554469c23ea.jpeg

 

 Yes. I know. I promised more sandwich bread. These are obviously not sandwich bread. They are not quite so obviously not   Baguettes.

 

 Amazon delivered a new toy yesterday and just like a child I had to play with it today. It was a couche hence the attempt at the baguettes. 

 

This is the lean French dough using the direct method.  Since the recipe is barely an outline but refers one to the original recipe, I sat down and wrote out step-by-step what needed to be done.

 

First of all I must say that the liquid/dry ratio seemed to be pretty much as it should be leading me to think that @JoNorvelleWalker might have been right when she suggested that I had earlier confused the water and flour amounts. I’m still not convinced of this and it was definitely a new batch of flour that arrived yesterday.  Be that as it may. 

 

Things moved along just fine until it came to couching the pre-shaped baguettes. They stuck. You cannot believe how much they stuck. I thought I had done a darn good job of preparing the couche by rubbing in flour but apparently I had failed.  Failed quite miserably in fact. 

 

 The first photo shows a “baguette” that I wrestled off the couche and reformed almost from the start. It is short and fat and not a bit like a baguette and although I scored it, the scores are not visible. 

 

Now came the fun part.  Using a hotel pan as a lid means ensuring that your shaped dough is shorter than the longest side of your hotel pan. But it makes baking more than one at a time rather impractical. So this little runt went into the oven alone and I carefully placed the (unheated) hotel pan over it. All seemed good. I set the timer for 20 minutes and poured myself a drink.  Now, now don’t get any ideas — it was tonic water over ice. 

 

When the timer was up I approached the oven with confidence  and two thick side towels.  Gingerly I tried to lift the hotel pan. Yeow!  Dropped it fast. Steam burns on one hand.

 

 Approached it again much more gingerly this time. Managed to nudge it so one edge was just over the outer edge of the pizza stone thus  giving me a point of purchase.  I wrestled it off, nudged the loaf back on the pizza stone, and then desperately searched for a landing spot for a screaming hot hotel pan. Heat burns on the other hand. (The same hand that has two paper cuts from Volume 5). 

 

 Gave the little runt another five minutes without its lid before removing it and preparing to bake the other two deformed baguettes. I had wrestled them off the couche but made no real attempt to reshape them as I had done with the first one. 

 

 I knew damn well I was not going to repeat the disaster with a hotel pan. These two would I have to undergo a non-modernist type bake. 

 

I arranged them on parchment paper on a pizza peel, slid them directly onto the stone and threw a good two handfuls of ice into the bottom of the oven.

 

They rose beautifully. They have a gorgeous crust that sang to me and any improvement that might’ve been had by using a lid could never make up for the frustration and the burns. I’m very happy with this result. 

 

I did remember to slash both of them but obviously need practice in that regard. I need to re-flour my couche and probably be much more generous with the flour before I put the dough on it. 

 

And now before I add a fall to all my other injuries I need to vacuum up the flour that has made my tile floor into a skating rink. 

 

Perhaps this time I will add something else to my tonic water. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Anna N said:

Just to be clear the vacuum is used to autolyze the flour and water (and yeast) not to mix the dough. 

 

I may be wrong, but the heading of page 3-108 reads: "How to Perform an Autolyse (and Mix) by Pulling a Vacuum on the Dough".  And in step 6, removing the dough from the bag, they say:  "The gluten is now practically developed."

 

The last step is stirring in the salt.

 

 

Edit:  I'd be inclined to add the salt initially along with the yeast and such.  Then after initial mixing divide the dough in half and bag each separately.  Vacuum each bag and retard one in the refrigerator while continuing to ferment the second.

 


Edited by JoNorvelleWalker Brilliant Insight (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I may be wrong, but the heading of page 3-108 reads: "How to Perform an Autolyse (and Mix) by Pulling a Vacuum on the Dough".  And in step 6, removing the dough from the bag, they say:  "The gluten is now practically developed."

 

The last step is stirring in the salt.

 

Let me check once more!   Yes it does say that — sort of. It’s rather confusing because after you’ve pulled a vacuum you add the salt and then return it to the mixer and mix for 1 to 2 more minutes.  So I’m not sure how it can be ready right out of the vacuum bag. But earlier they do suggest that pulling a vacuum is the equivalent to reaching medium gluten development which is impressive. 

 

 I am going to quote one piece directly: 

 

 The vacuum forces water into the flour so effectively that it will generally, under our recommended timetables, produce a dough as if it had been mixed to medium gluten development. [my bolding]. 

 

 Have you found any such timetables? The only time I’ve seen is to leave it in the vacuum bag for 30 minutes.

 

 Will certainly have to try this method. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

07791B5A-E5D1-44D9-BD9C-062FDF629EE4.thumb.jpeg.8cffa98df1bf19f1a515ebd585a66e97.jpeg

 

 Baguette crumb using the direct method lean French dough. 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Anna N said:

07791B5A-E5D1-44D9-BD9C-062FDF629EE4.thumb.jpeg.8cffa98df1bf19f1a515ebd585a66e97.jpeg

 

 Baguette crumb using the direct method lean French dough. 

Looks really good. I should get my books tomorrow or Tuesday and can’t wait to get stuck in. Although a diet of mostly bread won’t be so good...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Anna N said:

07791B5A-E5D1-44D9-BD9C-062FDF629EE4.thumb.jpeg.8cffa98df1bf19f1a515ebd585a66e97.jpeg

 

 Baguette crumb using the direct method lean French dough. 

 

Oooh, nice!  I'll be right over! 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Anna N said:

07791B5A-E5D1-44D9-BD9C-062FDF629EE4.thumb.jpeg.8cffa98df1bf19f1a515ebd585a66e97.jpeg

 

 Baguette crumb using the direct method lean French dough. 

 

That's beautiful, Anna!

 

By the way, are you eating all this bread?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

That's beautiful, Anna!

 

By the way, are you eating all this bread?

 

Why thank you.  Don’t I wish I could eat it all. I am wrapping most of it very well and tossing it into the freezer in the basement and hoping my cleaning lady will walk off with most of it. She cleaned out my freezer of everything at my request because I was afraid that if it ever gave out I would be stuck with a freezer full of  thawed meat.  It has been sitting empty for some time but I figure if the only thing in there is bread and it goes belly up it’s not going to be a huge deal. 

 Edited to add

Likely will not be baking much this week. Seem to have an appointment every damn day and all of them smack bang in the middle of the day. 


Edited by Anna N (log)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Anna N said:

Done?  I am assuming you mean the autolyse phase was done.  Please correct me if you mean something different. 

Done as in the gluten was fully developed. It passed the windowpane test.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Done as in the gluten was fully developed. It passed the windowpane test.

Thanks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anna,  for dusting your couche,  rice flour works great because it doesn't allow the dough to stick as much.  Regular flour plus a moist dough can lead to sticking.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Barrytm said:

Anna,  for dusting your couche,  rice flour works great because it doesn't allow the dough to stick as much.  Regular flour plus a moist dough can lead to sticking.   

Thanks. I used a combination of flour and rice flour as recommended by various “experts”. I think Modernist Bread recommends that combination for bench flour also.  Might try just rice flour for my next use. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So many things in these books require levain.... so I started one - it's cold her so we'll see how well it works, on top of the fridge.

 

I'm going to make some more french lean bread for now while I wait for the wild yeast to do it's thing.  I manged to find a number of items on amazon, seems Modernist Pantry needs to get a copy of this book - they had only one thing.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By flippant
      I've had the CSO for a number of years now, but have yet to actually bake bread in it.
       
      Reading through the Modernist Bread thread on this forum I see many of you are using the CSO to great effect, which is heartening.
       
      To that end, I would like to know about your experience baking bread in it – what sort of extra equipment you use (pans, cast iron? etc), what breads work the best, any corrections you find yourself making, or anything you feel might be useful to someone else using the CSO.
       
      Thank you!
       
       
    • By CCB
      I used my homemade toffee in a cookie recipe hoping that the toffee will add a crunch to the cookie... it didn't turn out well as the toffee melted and didn't keep its hardened crunch form. How can I prevent my toffee from melting in my cookie recipe?
    • By Rho
       
      The space race trickled into kitchens in the 60s and 70s, including one curious tool that's faded away in the years since: the thermal pin, a heat pipe skewer that can halve cooking times for roasts:

       
      Heat pipes are thermal superconductors, transferring heat 500-1000 times more effectively than solid copper (some people in the sous vide thread have discussed copper pins). They're hollow tubes with the air evacuated and a small amount of working fluid, often water. The usable temperature range is limited by the triple point and the critical point, with additional constraints near the edges. Water is effective from 20C-280C /70F-530F, which comfortably spans most cooking temperatures.
       
      Modernist Bread has an excellent section on how bread bakes, including a diagram of the internal heat pipes that develop, summarized here. (click for a good photo!)
       
      Sous-vide solves the overcooking side of the gradient problem, but it's still limited by total heat diffusion time-- doubling the size of a cut quadruples the time needed for the center to reach temperature. Heat pipe pins should make larger cuts practical, or normal cuts cook faster. Here's a graph from "The heat pipe and its potential for enhancing the cooking and cooling of meat joints", showing average temperatures over time for 1kg joints of meat convection baked at 190C/375F for 110 minutes (foil removed for the last 30 minutes):

       
      Thermal pins were sold commercially from 1956 to about 1990. They're listed occasionally for about $20 on ebay. They even made potato baking racks with heat pipes-- though now you can easily par-cook a potato in the microwave and finish it in the oven.
       
      I don't know why production of thermal pins stopped, or what fundamental problems limited their usage. It seems like pans and commercial griddles would be improved by adding heat pipes to spread heat throughout and avoid hot or cold spots. Perhaps roasts fell out of favor as the culture of entertaining shifted away from monolithic centerpieces to smaller, more precisely cooked portions.
    • By philie
      Hey there, i hope to find some help in the wise hands of yours. after some research i am still having some problems concerning glazing:
       
      For a party i would like to make some cubes and rounded savoury cakes and foams out of silicone forms that have a ready bottom and a colour glazing. 
      Somehow i just do not manage to find a steady glazing ( one that does not run ) and is for texture reasons preferably hard or crisp that does not include sugar or syrup.
       
      can you help me or lead my way in a certain direction?
       
      thanks very much!
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×