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Experimenting with my Bread Machine

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1 hour ago, lindag said:

I'm so disappointed!  I  wanted some homemade bread to go with tonight's goulash and decided to make my first ever loaf baked in my Zo (I normally mix in the Zo and then oven bake.

It was a big failure.  I don't know if it was my attempt to even out the top that caused the cratering ...maybe I did it too late(?)

The recipe was from KAF, their Potato wheat bread (to which I subbed half of the www for AP flour.

Discouraging enough that I'll go back to the oven now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

9E8A63E3-8736-4B34-BD01-65109473851F.jpeg

 

It looks cool! How did it taste?

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1 hour ago, lindag said:

I'm so disappointed!  I  wanted some homemade bread to go with tonight's goulash and decided to make my first ever loaf baked in my Zo (I normally mix in the Zo and then oven bake.

It was a big failure.  I don't know if it was my attempt to even out the top that caused the cratering ...maybe I did it too late(?)

The recipe was from KAF, their Potato wheat bread (to which I subbed half of the www for AP flour.

Discouraging enough that I'll go back to the oven now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

9E8A63E3-8736-4B34-BD01-65109473851F.jpeg

 

 

 

I think it over-proofed.  

The yeast blew its top and deflated.  The Zo should have a troubleshooting section.  

You can saw off the top, lengthwise and slice the bottom section.

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"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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@lindag  As you know, I'm still familiarizing myself with this machine.  What setting did you use?  

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getting a perfect looking top is difficult in a bread machine

 

I slice it off while still a bit warm and have it with butter or toast it then add the butter

 

at least on a vertical loaf there is less ' Top '

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13 hours ago, ElsieD said:

@lindag  As you know, I'm still familiarizing myself with this machine.  What setting did you use?  

Used the 'Basic' setting with medium crust.

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1 minute ago, lindag said:

Used the 'Basic' setting with medium crust.

What kind and how much yeast?  

It's possible the dough was a bit too "wet" which is difficult to tell sometimes, which is why I check on it. Touch it and if it is a bit too 'tacky" at the end of the second knead, (with a recipe with which I am unfamiliar) I add a bit more flour.

I have gotten results like this when I used too much yeast when re-working a dough I had left in the fridge too long and got a bit over eager. 


"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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Just now, andiesenji said:

What kind and how much yeast?  

It's possible the dough was a bit too "wet" which is difficult to tell sometimes, which is why I check on it. Touch it and if it is a bit too 'tacky" at the end of the second knead, (with a recipe with which I am unfamiliar) I add a bit more flour.

I have gotten results like this when I used too much yeast when re-working a dough I had left in the fridge too long and got a bit over eager. 

 

The recipe calls for 2-¼ tsps. yeast.  And, yes, the dough was a bit wet; I added some additional flour but was afraid to add too much.

Thanks for your advice, perhaps I'll give it another try.  I really did want to have a successful in-machine bake.

I want to make the KAF Sourdough Raisin Bread by baking in the machine, I could  try that one next.

 

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13 hours ago, Eric Srikandan said:

It looks cool! How did it taste?

 

Thanks for asking, Eric, it actually tasted very good, it is a good, well-tested recipe.

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if your bread tastes good   yet has this sort of top[

 

another option is croutons for the top slice.

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The other day the machine made a 1 1/2 pound loaf of basic white.  I used the 13 hour delay so it would be ready at 9:00 AM.  I had a heck of a time getting it out of the pan.  I toggled the wing nuts at the bottom of the pan and it was still sticking.  I slid a long plastic spatula all around the sides and finally got the thing out.  I wonder if the 13 hour delay made the bread stick? The panmitself was spotless when I started because I checked it carefully.

 

@lindag  I just checked my manual and it has something to say under the section questions and answers:

 

Q3  How do the loaves vary in shape depending on the season?

A3  During summer, loaves may sometimes rise too high or collapse, causing a dent in the middle.  During winter, you may have trouble getting bread to rise.  This may be solved by keeping the water temperature at about 68F (20C).

 

I realize that it is not summer in Montana but maybe your water temperature has something to do with it?  I'm going to watch the temperature of mine.

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5 minutes ago, ElsieD said:

The other day the machine made a 1 1/2 pound loaf of basic white.  I used the 13 hour delay so it would be ready at 9:00 AM.  I had a heck of a time getting it out of the pan.  I toggled the wing nuts at the bottom of the pan and it was still sticking.  I slid a long plastic spatula all around the sides and finally got the thing out.  I wonder if the 13 hour delay made the bread stick? The panmitself was spotless when I started because I checked it carefully.

 

@lindag  I just checked my manual and it has something to say under the section questions and answers:

 

Q3  How do the loaves vary in shape depending on the season?

A3  During summer, loaves may sometimes rise too high or collapse, causing a dent in the middle.  During winter, you may have trouble getting bread to rise.  This may be solved by keeping the water temperature at about 68F (20C).

 

I realize that it is not summer in Montana but maybe your water temperature has something to do with it?  I'm going to watch the temperature of mine.

I used the pre-heat option because of the potato mixture (potatoes and water too hot, so I chilled over ice...leading to very cold potatoes).

I will give it another shot during which I'll keep checking the rise.

(It's just one of those things that irks me when I can't get it right.)

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Until you get the "system" working correctly, check on the dough several times during the final rise before it starts the baking segment.

Push on the dough with a finger, if it indents and doesn't spring back rapidly, it is becoming overproofed. 

End the cycle, reset it to bake only, and start that.  The machine should heat up faster, give a bit of "oven spring" but not as much as in a regular oven but it will stop the action of the yeast so it won't blow out.  

 

I often have to do that with the doughs that contain a bit of sugar or eggs - challah or brioche doughs often exhibit accelerated yeast action and if I miss the signs, before the baking begins, I stop the cycle, yank the dough out of the pan, knead it vigorously with a bit more flour, shape it and drop it back into the pan and set for Bake Only.

It can be tricky.

I have convinced a lot of people to get bread machines and I always tell them to start out with one of the boxed mixes, which are foolproof or nearly so.

 

I have given several as gifts and I always include a couple of boxes so they can have a success before going off into the weeds of the various recipes that often sound interesting but are not always the easiest for a novice.

 

I have been baking for most of my life so I have a knowledge of what dough is supposed to look and feel like at all the various stages.  I have had my share of disasters, not compensating for certain odd habits of some flours - that naturally have a high sugar content and may run wild with a "normal" amount of yeast.  

 

It can be frustrating but fun.

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"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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Reviving this thread to ask a question. When using a bread machine, do you sift the salt and sugar in with the flour, or mix it together? Or do you just dump it on top of the flour?

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Just dump it in but keep the salt away from the yeast.

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I have been using bread machines since I got my first one in the mid '70s.

I posted in the bread topic about the method I have been using for the past several years to take advantage of the AUTOLYSE effect which, in my opinion, allows the dough to develop so one gets a consistent result and if you want to bake the dough in an oven, it is much easier to work and shape.

I add the oil and the water to the machine and then add the FLOUR, select the desired cycle, turn the machine on and allow it to go through the FIRST mix and knead cycle, that should run for at least 5 minutes, longer is better.

At that point I stop the machine, cancel the cycle and allow the flour/water mixture to rest for 30 to 40 minutes - longer if using whole wheat or rye flour.

At the end of that period I reset the machine to the original setting add all the remaining ingredients (salt at one end of the pan, yeast at the other) and turn it on.

 

I know that when my machine gets to 1:55 remaining time, it will  do the final quick knead - equivalent to punching down when working by hand.

 At this point I turn the dough out into an oiled bowl or onto a lightly floured counter and REMOVE THE PADDLES!

 

I reshape the dough, if necessary, put the pan back into the machine, close the lid and let it finish the final rise and bake.

 

Removing the paddles means you only have two little holes the size of a pencil eraser in the bottom of your loaf.

If it doesn't fall right out when done, twist the drive flanges on the bottom of the pan, that should release the loaf.

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"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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"Remove the paddles"...now, why didn't I think of that? Thanks, @andiesenji!

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Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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Here are a couple of photos from a couple of years ago to illustrate the little holes in the bottom of the bread 

when just the shaft is there.  One sliced cut through the little hole.  Makes a much neater loaf.

I'm sure I have posted these elsewhere in another thread.

1051558901_BOTTOMHOLEScopy.jpg.923d8541b163fe696334b8e592045823.jpg

869026812_HPIM0598copy.jpg.158b47cdc6d13ba15f044e04d669ef06.jpg

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"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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When I posted about my bread routine with a machine and the autolyse pause, and then removing the paddles after the final knead, I forgot to add that at this point I check the "feel" and the "response" of the dough.

At this point a correct dough should have a smooth, non-tacky surface and it should RESIST and snap back when pulled.

If it is too "slack" or has a tacky or sticky surface, you can knead a couple of tablespoons of flour into the dough until it has the desirable smooth, non-tacky surface and is NOT pillowy soft.  

Shape it evenly and drop it back into the pan from which you have removed the paddles. 

With this correction, you should be able to avoid the "sunken top" of over-proofing because that little bit of flour gives the yeast something to work on.

I learned this a long time ago, before bread machines when I fell asleep, didn't hear my timer and a batch of dough shaped for the oven was badly over-proofed.  I gathered all the shaped loaves and rolls onto the bench, kneaded some flour, a small amount at a time, into the dough until it felt "responsive" and was resisting my kneading and stretching.  I divided it and reshaped  it all and shortened the raising time a bit and was able to bake them all off successfully.  

It is important to learn the "feel" of dough during the various processes. Don't be afraid to touch it. I use gloves so if the phone rings I can peel off a glove and not have a messy phone.  Invariably, the phone will ring when I am up to my wrists in dough.

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"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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FWIW, I put the water in the pan, then add the salt, butter/olive oil. All the dry measure is done by weight (taring the scale between items), and I add the entire bowl together (on top of the water). I dig a small depression into the top of the dry stuff to put the yeast. Sometimes this is timed to occur overnight so as to have fresh bread in the morning. I also make low-yeast pizza dough this way (which then gets aged in the fridge for 3-10 days).  I've been making bread machine bread since the early 1990s, but I might not be as demanding (or competent) as @andiesenji.

 

I love bread!

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