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Pan

Great hard-to-find condiments

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6 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

To the best of my remembrance I have never purchased rye flour in my life.  From the Modernist Bread discussion apparently suitably fine rye flour is not sold in the US.

 

I buy lovely rye flour from The New York Bakers    They are in San Diego.  

 

I have purchased  Rye flours,  Rye meal  - fine, medium and coarse.  Pale malted rye,  the Ragsikt Swedish blend,  Durum,  High-Gluten flour.  Euro-style artisan flour, Farine rustique  and a pound of compresse dyeast and  diastatic malt powder.  Also some seeds and some flavorings.  

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5 hours ago, andiesenji said:

I buy lovely rye flour from The New York Bakers    They are in San Diego.  

 

I have purchased  Rye flours,  Rye meal  - fine, medium and coarse.  Pale malted rye,  the Ragsikt Swedish blend,  Durum,  High-Gluten flour.  Euro-style artisan flour, Farine rustique  and a pound of compresse dyeast and  diastatic malt powder.  Also some seeds and some flavorings.  

 

I can't speak to the question directly, but according to Kerry @nathanm said suitable rye flour was not available in the US:

 

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/155794-baking-with-myhrvolds-modernist-bread-the-art-and-science/?do=findComment&comment=2132570

 

 

Personally I prefer my rye in liquid form.

 

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I'm a big fan of Angel's Envy and Templeton Reserve Rye, myself. :-) Thanks for the info, andie.


Edited by Pan (log)
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11 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I can't speak to the question directly, but according to Kerry @nathanm said suitable rye flour was not available in the US:

 

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/155794-baking-with-myhrvolds-modernist-bread-the-art-and-science/?do=findComment&comment=2132570

 

 

Personally I prefer my rye in liquid form.

 

You can call the New York Bakers and ask.  They sell flours that are only available commercially - in SMALLER, CONSUMER-SIZED packages that they weigh and pack themselves so that HOME BAKERS will have access to these flours.  I think the people with this Modernist  stuff are being a bit picky.

 

I have been extremely satisfied - the "first clear flour" is excellent for artisan breads.  The ryes are also and if they aren't "fine" enough, though I don't see any problem, they can be zapped in a blender for a couple of seconds and then sifted through a very fine sieve.  

The flavors can be enhanced with malt powder or syrup.  Or this stuff, which is first toasted in a dry skillet, cooled and ground and added sparingly to the flours.  

 

For that matter, I have been "toasting" flour for my rustic breads for years. We used to have an Italian bakery near my work in Canoga Park, CA. I often went there for lunch or stopped on my way home.  One of the bakers was a patient and one day when he was in the office, I mentioned that I had worked in my mom's bakery twenty years earlier and I had been trying to figure out what gave their breads such a lovely flavor, almost as if they contained nut flours.  He said he would let me in on the "secret" - half the flour was "roasted" at 300° for 15 minutes, stirring a couple of times, cooled and used that day - it did not keep well.  So I tried it at home and the flavor was exactly what I wanted in the rustic breads.  I have also roasted rye flour, barley flour, spelt and others. I like the flavor.  The hydration is thrown off a little so I watch the dough and add a bit more water if needed.

Screen Shot 2017-12-17 at 9.10.07 AM.png

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34 minutes ago, andiesenji said:

You can call the New York Bakers and ask.  They sell flours that are only available commercially - in SMALLER, CONSUMER-SIZED packages that they weigh and pack themselves so that HOME BAKERS will have access to these flours.  I think the people with this Modernist  stuff are being a bit picky.

 

I have been extremely satisfied - the "first clear flour" is excellent for artisan breads.  The ryes are also and if they aren't "fine" enough, though I don't see any problem, they can be zapped in a blender for a couple of seconds and then sifted through a very fine sieve.  

The flavors can be enhanced with malt powder or syrup.  Or this stuff, which is first toasted in a dry skillet, cooled and ground and added sparingly to the flours.  

 

For that matter, I have been "toasting" flour for my rustic breads for years. We used to have an Italian bakery near my work in Canoga Park, CA. I often went there for lunch or stopped on my way home.  One of the bakers was a patient and one day when he was in the office, I mentioned that I had worked in my mom's bakery twenty years earlier and I had been trying to figure out what gave their breads such a lovely flavor, almost as if they contained nut flours.  He said he would let me in on the "secret" - half the flour was "roasted" at 300° for 15 minutes, stirring a couple of times, cooled and used that day - it did not keep well.  So I tried it at home and the flavor was exactly what I wanted in the rustic breads.  I have also roasted rye flour, barley flour, spelt and others. I like the flavor.  The hydration is thrown off a little so I watch the dough and add a bit more water if needed.

Screen Shot 2017-12-17 at 9.10.07 AM.png

Andie, is that the same malted rye as is readily available at homebrew shops?

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Rye flour is of little more than academic interest for my baking.  I was suggesting fine rye flour for Pan's store as a product putatively hard to source in the US.

 

I did glance to see if The New York Bakers carried King Arthur Artisan Select Organic Flour (which I would like to try) but it seems that they do not.

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9 hours ago, MelissaH said:

Andie, is that the same malted rye as is readily available at homebrew shops?

Yes but I don't want to buy a pound of it.  It goes rancid rapidly and it takes me several months to use up 8 ounces.

 

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Here, for what it's worth, are some of my  favourite condiments. These are all from Thailand.


ginger.thumb.jpg.e82e5f7774d39b5597ae0396b19043d3.jpg

Great with Chicken, but also cheese!

 

seaweed.thumb.jpg.aac1bf8f091f80f3a828c4319fbbbc88.jpg

Great as a dressing for seafood salads as pictured. Also perks up a bowl of seafood stew.

 

srracha.thumb.jpg.006969e530ef9bfc9140657c8bd00dc9.jpg

A raree example of Sriracha sauce that is actually from Sriracha.

 

I have no idea how widely available these are outside SE Asia.

One day when I have weeks to spare I will detail all the thousands of chili condiments in my local supermarket here in China.


Edited by liuzhou typo (log)
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Great, liuzhou!

 

A question about Sriracha: The kind we usually have in the U.S. is manufactured by Hoy Fong in Rosemead, California. Have you compared the Sriracha sauce from Sriracha with the Hoy Fong Sriracha sauce?

 

Also, what brand makes the Thai Ginger Sauce? Is the brand name really "As Delicate As Thai Performing Arts"? If so, my web searching skills may need work to get a useful result.

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27 minutes ago, Pan said:

Great, liuzhou!

 

A question about Sriracha: The kind we usually have in the U.S. is manufactured by Hoy Fong in Rosemead, California. Have you compared the Sriracha sauce from Sriracha with the Hoy Fong Sriracha sauce?

 

Also, what brand makes the Thai Ginger Sauce? Is the brand name really "As Delicate As Thai Performing Arts"? If so, my web searching skills may need work to get a useful result.

 

Sorry, I've no idea about the Sriracha. I've never been to the USA or sampled the version you mention.

The ginger sauce is manufactured by Food Specialize Company Ltd, 790 Moo 2, Bang Pu Mai, Samut Prakan, Thailand. They have an English website at http://www.foodspecialize.com.

 

"As Delicate As Thai Performing Arts" is merely a marketing slogan. The brand is "Thai Dancer"


Edited by liuzhou (log)

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Hi, everyone! I'm just back from a trip to San Francisco, where I attended the Fancy Food Show at the partially under-construction Moscone Center - my first Fancy Food Show. It was a very interesting experience. It's easy to get sidetracked: I tried some outstanding 13-year Wisconsin cheddar, the best asiago cheese I've ever had (also, amazingly, from Wisconsin) and some delicious chocolate and toffee, but none of those are things the site will carry. My brother, who's assisting with this project, and I concentrated on the purveyors of spicy and other savory condiments and sauces. For example, there is a man named Jake who makes barbecue and hot sauces, and we liked every one of them - here is his website. He was friendly and gave us the last two ribs he had cooked, so that we could have lunch. In fact, most of the purveyors we spoke with were nice, which is not surprising if you think of them as people who are passionate about food and delight in bringing people pleasure. Some other highlights were a Bavarian company named Essendorfer - I thought all their flavored pestos were delicious, so I'd like to carry some of them but have to make a decision about the scope of what we're selling, at least at first. Another category of great condiments we tried were mustards. For example, there's a guy from Wisconsin who makes an outstanding Fig Balsamic Mustard. He also makes a great lemon curd, in case we decide to carry sweet sauces sooner or later.

 

The scope of the items we will carry is one of the things that has to be decided on before launch. We're currently planning on concentrating on spicy and savory sauces, though we might also include some dry spices or spice mixtures that are really outstanding. A propos, there was a vendor who had voatsiperifery for sale. We sniffed it and were very impressed. However, the wholesale price is very high, which is a consideration.

 

Also while I was in San Francisco, I tried a bunch of Japanese condiments my brother bought during trips to Japan. We can't even read many of the labels, but quite a lot of the sauces were very good to excellent, well-balanced ones. My sister-in-law is Japanese, so either she may translate the labels or we can get someone else to do that. Then there's the task of contacting the companies and finding out what the wholesale prices and minimum wholesale orders of the products are.

 

You might think that at a food conference, everyone stuffs themselves, but that's not the case when you're walking through every aisle looking for the best condiments and sauces you can find. It actually requires a lot of stamina to do business at the show when you're scouting out whatever you can find in one or two categories, and someone who's as focused as we were doesn't eat more than small amounts of samples of extraneous products. On the afternoon of the last day, though, a lot of vendors give away large quantities of products, because they can't take them back with them. So my bag almost broke that day, but mostly because of samples of hot sauces.

 

In the coming weeks, we will be trying more samples of sauces and condiments and getting more pricing and minimum order information. If you have any other ideas of particularly great spicy and savory condiments the site should carry, of course we're all ears, and thank you for all your advice.

 

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On 12/17/2017 at 12:24 PM, andiesenji said:

 I think the people with this Modernist  stuff are being a bit picky.

 

Ya think?! xDxDxD

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By the way, would you all suggest that we start with only spicy products such as hot sauces, or with both spicy products and savory ones that are unspicy or only very slightly spicy? This is one of the planning questions under consideration, and your input as people who purchase these kinds of products could help us.

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Your site would appeal to me more if you offered both.  It seems to me if you only offered spicy items you might be turning off people who would happily order both or just the savoury items.  I don't know about anyone else but if I come across a site that specializes in something I'm not interested in, chances are slim to none that I would ever look at that site again.  (That said, we like both spicy and savoury and are looking forward to your site.)

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5 hours ago, Pan said:

By the way, would you all suggest that we start with only spicy products such as hot sauces, or with both spicy products and savory ones that are unspicy or only very slightly spicy? This is one of the planning questions under consideration, and your input as people who purchase these kinds of products could help us.

A quick google of "hot sauce online"  shows quite a few established competitors in that niche.  How would you be able to differentiate yourself?  I think a broader array of offerings would be a good idea.  I cannot think of any other retailer with the focus that you have named in this thread, and I would look forward to browsing such a site, just to see what has been curated.

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Thanks for your feedback, ElsieD and donk79. It's very helpful, and I think your points are very sound.

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19 hours ago, Pan said:

By the way, would you all suggest that we start with only spicy products such as hot sauces, or with both spicy products and savory ones that are unspicy or only very slightly spicy? This is one of the planning questions under consideration, and your input as people who purchase these kinds of products could help us.

 

There are arguments to be made in both directions. If there is a site that I know I can find every variety of spicy condiment, I'm going to go to that site when I want something spicy, regardless of what else it has or does not have. I'm sure there are people to whom an all-spicy site would be attractive. It would also have the effect of limiting your inventory and thus your cash investment in stock.

 

But for me personally, I like to browse, and I'm likely to buy more of "oh, that looks good" than what I went to the site for. So the broader site is more appealing to me.

 

I think it's a balance you have to strike with how much money you want to invest in ongoing inventory.

 

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kayb, thanks for your comments. We definitely have no plans to carry every variety of spicy condiment, only products we've tried and consider especially tasty and interesting. So that's another argument to simply sell both spicy and non-spicy condiments and sauces that are especially good.

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It's a bit like setting up your own curated selection, isn't it?  Isn't that how Williams-Sonoma got its start? ;)

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8 hours ago, Pan said:

kayb, thanks for your comments. We definitely have no plans to carry every variety of spicy condiment, only products we've tried and consider especially tasty and interesting. So that's another argument to simply sell both spicy and non-spicy condiments and sauces that are especially good.

 

It's a bit like setting up your own curated selection, isn't it? Isn't that how Williams-Sonoma got its start? ;)

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Yes, exactly. Our own curated selection. Interesting about Williams-Sonoma.

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never had it, but saw on another forum a reference to Alaga Yellow Syrup.   apparently a regional delicacy down south.

 

here in Merryland all seafood must be accompanied by Old Bay seasoning.  distinctive yellow can.

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I don't think we're going to be carrying either. Old Bay seasoning is surely extremely well distributed, and so is Alaga Syrup, which I hadn't heard of but which is sold by both Amazon and Walmart and has the following ingredients: Corn Syrup, Cane Syrup, Water, Potassium Sorbate. Not a fascinating product to me.

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Might be interesting to carry different sugar products - especially where you can find the best of different quality products like palm sugar and grade B maple syrup

 

ETA: Is coconut sugar easy to find in the US?


Edited by haresfur (log)

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The best palm sugar that I know is Malaysian, but I don't know who in particular makes it. Maple syrup is widely available and I wouldn't think of carrying it. I don't know how easy it is to find coconut sugar, nationwide.

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